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Old 03-07-2012, 08:10 AM #1
TomorrowsGreatest
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In 2010, I purchased a new creed with expectations that it might would be better than my current ego8. Granted it shot decent however I only go to put about 5 cases through it before my valve body oring kept blowing for no apparent reason. Then after fixing that numerous times I just gave up and fixed it one and final time then sold it for cheap just to get it out of my hands.

Now at the end of 2011 beginning of 2012 I purchased a demon with expectations high because of all the hype. When I got the demon and shot it for the first time it was nothing short of amazing. Gun shoots great, quiet and smooth as can be. I was in love. However, only about 15 cases into the gun I get a slow creeping leak coming from the solenoid area. I take the gun apart and to which I find that the gasket on the bottom of the manifold has been completely stretched and now won't even seat in its position. So I call vanguard US to try and get a replacement gasket under warranty because I'm pretty sure there is no way that can be user error. I am very thorough with all my guns and clean them after ever weekend. Anyway, after asking if it's covered under warranty, the reply I received was "oh our warranty service center just closed 5 min ago, so if you want to try and get it under warranty your going to need to go through the UK". Needless to say I didn't have time to call the UK with a tourney approaching the following weekend. So I purchased the new gasket kit at my expense of 37 some odd dollars. (rip off for basically rubber bands). That comes in and that's not all the problem apparently. Still leaks and it's only getting worse. A new service center opens so I contact them display all my issues, send the gun in.......2+ weeks later I receive my marker back and to which I find that who ever "fixed" apparently just threw the gun back together because the frame didn't even touch the body. You could look through the gun, that's how big the gap was. Not to mention I received it in worse condition then when I sent it. Grips were all worn, frame didn't seat properly, missing my manual and barrel plug. So now I'm sending it back again for a problem that was not there to begin with...at my expense by the way.

Really? When this gun comes back im selling it and I finished with vanguard. will no longer recommend this company!!!

Posting before and after pics so stay tuned
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Old 03-07-2012, 08:29 AM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomorrowsGreatest View Post
In 2010, I purchased a new creed with expectations that it might would be better than my current ego8. Granted it shot decent however I only go to put about 5 cases through it before my valve body oring kept blowing for no apparent reason. Then after fixing that numerous times I just gave up and fixed it one and final time then sold it for cheap just to get it out of my hands.

Now at the end of 2011 beginning of 2012 I purchased a demon with expectations high because of all the hype. When I got the demon and shot it for the first time it was nothing short of amazing. Gun shoots great, quiet and smooth as can be. I was in love. However, only about 15 cases into the gun I get a slow creeping leak coming from the solenoid area. I take the gun apart and to which I find that the gasket on the bottom of the manifold has been completely stretched and now won't even seat in its position. So I call vanguard US to try and get a replacement gasket under warranty because I'm pretty sure there is no way that can be user error. I am very thorough with all my guns and clean them after ever weekend. Anyway, after asking if it's covered under warranty, the reply I received was "oh our warranty service center just closed 5 min ago, so if you want to try and get it under warranty your going to need to go through the UK". Needless to say I didn't have time to call the UK with a tourney approaching the following weekend. So I purchase the new gasket kit at my expense of 37 some odd dollars. (rip off for basically rubber bands). That comes in and that's not all the problem apparently. Still leaks and it's only getting worse. A new service center opens so I contact them display all my issues, send the gun in.......3 weeks later I receive my marker back and to which I find that who ever "fixed" apparently just threw the gun back together because the frame didn't even touch the body. You could look through the gun, that's how big the gap was. Not to mention I received it in worse condition then when I sent it. Grips were all worn, frame didn't seat properly, missing my manual and barrel plug. So now I'm send it back again for a problem that was there to begin with...at my expense by the way.

Really? When this gun comes back im selling it and I finished with vanguard. will no longer recommend this company!!!

Posting before and after pics so stay tuned
I am very sorry to hear about these issues, we are looking into this right now and will update you asap, this is being treated as an urgent matter and I can only apologise for the inconvenience this has caused you.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:18 AM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason_vanguard

I am very sorry to hear about these issues, we are looking into this right now and will update you asap, this is being treated as an urgent matter and I can only apologise for the inconvenience this has caused you.
Thank you, the issue is currently in process of being resolved.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:27 AM #4
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Is that your purple Demon you made a few videos on youtube about?
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:20 AM #5
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unfortunately yes. however i was told it is going to be replaced completely.
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Old 03-07-2012, 10:47 AM #6
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unfortunately yes. however i was told it is going to be replaced completely.
Wow, free of charge? Well, that's a sign that Vanguard is willing to help in any way they can and now with the service centers they will be opening up in Canada and the US, expect big things man! Vanguard is only going to get better and hopefully tweak their products a bit more and they will be as reliable as Eclipse stuff, or so we can hope.

Btw, you have a pretty sweet youtube channel. I have been watching your stuff for a while.
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Old 03-07-2012, 11:42 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sameagol26
Wow, free of charge? Well, that's a sign that Vanguard is willing to help in any way they can and now with the service centers they will be opening up in Canada and the US, expect big things man! Vanguard is only going to get better and hopefully tweak their products a bit more and they will be as reliable as Eclipse stuff, or so we can hope.

Btw, you have a pretty sweet youtube channel. I have been watching your stuff for a while.
I dont know man, reliability is a big thing. Their guns shoot good when their working however both vanguard markers I've had have had problems in a short matter of time. I mean when you think some eclipse an dye markers are still working from 2k5 and 2k6. Yes vanguard seems to be very personalized with their help. It's always one on one so your not leaving messages and waiting forever. However when I got my gun. Back and it was in worse condition than when it left, granted the leak was stopped but a new problem came, to me that was just unacceptable. I'm not here to attack anyone just releasing my frustration with what is supposed to be a professional company. I really appreciate they are going to any and every extent to make it right but this should have been done the first time I sent it in.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:22 PM #8
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I also got a demon around that same time frame. Mine came in December 9th, 2011 if im not mistaken. First of all, i had it custom anodized in vanguard UK's factory and you can obviously see all the brush strokes and not a very solid color, so its not a very well done anno at all. And the following weekend I went to try it out at my local field, and almost immediately, maybe 2-3 cases into it, there is a leak coming from the top of the grip frame. So I called TomorrowsGreatest, since he is a personal friend of mine, and asked what he thought it could be. He wasn't sure at that time, so I just set it aside until my tournament in Dothan, AL half a week later. Up there, their field technician looked at it and couldn't find any obvious problems with the marker. Later we find online that the recommended operating pressure is 550psi, which i was using a higher pressure regulator, so i had to (at my own expense) but a new ninja SMP reg for my tank at the site, and that helped the problem some, still not all the way solved. Later that same day i started having bolt stick problems, and still do ever since. Eventually that bolt stick was happening too often and I sent it in for the first time. I had a good contact with Eric at Vanguard US, and we talked through what was going on with it and he said that it was working over in CA while he had it there. I still don't believe that, because when i got it back it looked exactly the same as when it had left, the only thing i noticed was that he replaced the lube on the bolt and i can only assume that it worked while it was there. When I got it back it still had the same bolt problems so I called him to ask what kind of lube he used. He replied with Dow 55, which in my demon's case was some unmarked green lube that i am not familiar with at all and neither was he. The bolt problem continued and later the leak came back, only worse. Not only from the grip frame, but also from the front of the bolt now also. So I sent it in again a second time, which they paid shipping to there this time, thankfully. And he said that he would completely take it apart and look at all the parts and make sure they are working properly. I can only assume he did so. He then said he will take some shooting videos of it in CA, which i never could view, my mac just couldn't open the file. And when I got it back the second time, he replaced my unknown lube with a small can of Dow 55 then same size, that helps my bolt stick issue, but i have to lube the bolt AT LEAST 2 times a day to keep it cycling. I don't think it should require so much lube, and the leaks continued. Another thing, when I was sending it in I asked him to look at the left eye plate, because I could not get it off, the screw would come out no problem, but the plate itself seemed to be stuck on there somehow, maybe when it was anno'd it got stuck on there by the metal or something, i don't know. And so if my eyes ever got dirty it would be impossible to clean them. It came back still impossible to take off and no signs of him trying to take it off or even try. Now my demon is only capable of shooting if I have the eyes off, which causes chopping, lubing it a ridiculous amount, and it cant even go the length of the airball field due to the leaks. Very displeased by this marker. And I agree with this thread, Won't recommend Vanguard either.

My creed also had the same problems as well, only i did not send it on, because it was a simple fix, but keeps coming back, the valve body, and now the solenoid. which i will have to get a new solenoid soon.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:54 AM #9
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Just so you guys know your markers were some of the first demons ever made. Every company has growing pains when releasing a new marker. We have now fixed all the problems and going forward the Demon is amazing. We have gone thru at least 5 or 6 updates on parts and orings to make sure the marker is at its best. I went almost a full season playing PRO NPPL with the marker and had just as many issues as you guys have had. My markers have seen more air miles then most pilots, back and forth to England every week for more field testing and changes. I have not had a problem for 3 months now with the Demon and I don't think we will be seeing anymore in the future. Thank you for sticking with us thru the early stages of the Demon.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:09 AM #10
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Frank if your not aware many people are having bolt stick issues. If you'll direct 2 threads down from this one you'll see, and there are many threads related to this topic. I love my demon don't get me wrong, it's one of if not the smoothest gun I've ever shot and I've done every single thing I've been advised to do to fix this problem and it still occurring. If you could express your opinion on this issue, and maybe explain some things y'all are doing to resolve it, it would be greatly appreciated
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:45 AM #11
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When demons work they are amazing. I had a newer manufactured demon and it shot butter. I did have a broken creed although and the service center was a pain due to the closing
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:01 PM #12
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If I remember correcty, bolt stick is often caused by the inner can oring. That should be replaced with the clear urathane(I think) oring. The reason being that if it leaks even a little you lose pressure that's needed to cycle the bolt forward. If it's too tight it causes drag. Check on that and the front inner can oring as well since that seals air need to cycle the bolt as well. (if memory serves).

Make sure all the parts are screwed together nice and snug on the drive train. If they come apart during play you'll have issues.

If you're playing in cooler temperatures you'll also want to raise your dwell a little higher to solve this problem. It may work good when the gun is still warm from your gear bag, but as the gun cools the bolt stick can become more seirous. This is pretty much the rule for all spool guns in the cool/cold.

Another thing to remember is the gun uses UK size orings. If you just replace one that looks the proper size, but isn't UK standard, you'll have issues.

Make sure you have all of the new updates....sounds like a few people have the older reg parts that are creeping and causing issues. Reg creep will render any gun a problem pretty fast. You should be able to run a HP tank on it without a problem.
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:19 PM #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MstrKey
If I remember correcty, bolt stick is often caused by the inner can oring. That should be replaced with the clear urathane(I think) oring. The reason being that if it leaks even a little you lose pressure that's needed to cycle the bolt forward. If it's too tight it causes drag. Check on that and the front inner can oring as well since that seals air need to cycle the bolt as well. (if memory serves).

Make sure all the parts are screwed together nice and snug on the drive train. If they come apart during play you'll have issues.

If you're playing in cooler temperatures you'll also want to raise your dwell a little higher to solve this problem. It may work good when the gun is still warm from your gear bag, but as the gun cools the bolt stick can become more seirous. This is pretty much the rule for all spool guns in the cool/cold.

Another thing to remember is the gun uses UK size orings. If you just replace one that looks the proper size, but isn't UK standard, you'll have issues.

Make sure you have all of the new updates....sounds like a few people have the older reg parts that are creeping and causing issues. Reg creep will render any gun a problem pretty fast. You should be able to run a HP tank on it without a problem.
Very good comments and very good pointers that should help everyone.
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Old 03-08-2012, 08:10 PM #14
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Yes they are but I've done every single thing he's talked about with no luck. I just don't know what else I can do
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Old 03-09-2012, 08:46 AM #15
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My bolt stick issue was weather related - happened in the cold like most are reporting. Turning the dwell up from default 16 to 18 fixed it perfectly.

We've got tech videos, picture and bolt maintenance threads but it would be nice to get a proper tech section so people could easily research any issue that might come up. Seeing some of the more experienced and official people chime on problems and fixes might go a long way to giving people confidence about the Demon.
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Old 03-10-2012, 03:14 PM #16
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bolt stick.

Quote:
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Yes they are but I've done every single thing he's talked about with no luck. I just don't know what else I can do
Have you increased your FSDO time? Cranked your dwell way up until it fires to see if it will ever work?

Make sure you have no grease clogging the holes on the outside of the drive train.

It sounds to me like you may have a micro leak somewhere causing problems.

It's also possible that you may have a gun with milling that's out of spec, so you may have to spend some time doing some oring sizing. Or, simply contact vanguard and tell they you've tried it all without success. Maybe they'll swap your drive train out for you.
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Old 03-10-2012, 08:11 PM #17
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all that would help, but ive already sent mine in 2 times, to no improvement. So obviously the new upgrades or orings or whatever arent the trick
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:49 PM #18
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The demon I received had the frame gap problem, but shot nicely. I finally got the service center to replace it, which took two months. And it comes back to me 2 days before they closed down. Sadly, it now a leak coming from the internal noid area and I can't figure it out. Same thing. Send in for one problem and get it back with another. I purchased the marker in late December and still have yet to use it on the field. I can't sell it till the leak is fixed but I guarantee I will have to pay a bit to get it resolved. Kind of sad having such an expensive paperweight. I love the marker, it would just be nice to use it are least once.
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Old 03-11-2012, 05:04 PM #19
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I'm sorry that you have an issue, but service is not closed down, if the issue is from manufacture then why do you have to pay?
We are working through any issues and problems and with the changes with USA service and warranty, we are trying to catch up.
You will get your marker taken care of, if you choose to sell it that's your choice, but we endeavour to make sure every Vanguard owner
Is happy with there marker.
I'm sorry it has taken time, but rest assured we will get you up and running.
Please e mail
Jason@vanguardpaintball.com if you need too. Skype jay.bagshaw and I can help out.
Call +44 7827 442 122 if you want to chat, please note I'm uk time zone
For the gunfight !

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Old 03-11-2012, 09:55 PM #20
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Honestly, most leaks are easily fixed. Everyone says they have a leak they can't find and that's the problem. FIND the leak, and the problem will be obvious. Spray bottle with soapy water........I'm guessing in most cases it's not the noid area where most people always want to assume it is. It's most likely the orings that seal the macroless air paths to the grip frame.

Again, soapy water can usually find most leaks in seconds.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:33 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MstrKey
Honestly, most leaks are easily fixed. Everyone says they have a leak they can't find and that's the problem. FIND the leak, and the problem will be obvious. Spray bottle with soapy water........I'm guessing in most cases it's not the noid area where most people always want to assume it is. It's most likely the orings that seal the macroless air paths to the grip frame.

Again, soapy water can usually find most leaks in seconds.
Can't do the spray test because the gun is a gas thru grip and cannot be aired up with the frame open!
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