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Old 03-06-2012, 02:36 PM #22
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I did, was running around 280, but thanks for warning me not to make it go out all of the way.
Ok. Cool.
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How A Tippmann A-5 Works

How A Cyclone Works


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Old 03-06-2012, 02:54 PM #23
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When you get a reg, you need to make sure that it is adjustable!
Sorry if I'm repeating myself here, but a Tippmann expansion chamber or LPK will run you $100, while a regulator that accomplishes the same thing will run maybe $20. It's a good investment and will cut down on your air costs! (Unless your field has all-day air, like mine!)
Noah
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:21 PM #24
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hey, don't worry your not repeating yourself as I like to have stuff made clear to me :p, but yes I will make sure, sadly I only play woodsball with a couple of buddies and they don't have compressors to fill the tank up which is why my two tanks have to last a few games, thanks for the response, have a good day.
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:42 PM #25
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No problemo!
Glad to help!
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Old 03-06-2012, 03:42 PM #26
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I think I will be purchasing this.
http://www.ansgear.com/ProductDetail... 3000&click=8
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:46 PM #27
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NOOO!!! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's a tank reg! That won't do you any good!
What you want is an inline reg! That reg goes on an HPA tank, not a gun.
Look for anything entitled "Inline Regulator." This will tell you that it's designed to be used in a vertical ASA like the A5's tombstone.
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Old 03-06-2012, 06:48 PM #28
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http://www.ansgear.com/Custom_Produc...latorblack.htm
http://www.paintballgateway.com/regulators1.html

Here is what you want.
You shouldn't buy one new, as there are TONS of inline regs on the cheap. An inline reg will look like this (the one in the link). Don't buy anything yet!
Noah
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:02 PM #29
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I have had an a5 for 8+ years and done all sorts of upgrades to it to try and improve efficiency, recoil and volume.

1. Polish the internals of the two gun halves. If you haven't done so, totally disassemble you A5 and you will see that the places where the front and rear bolt slide back and forth are just cast aluminum and really rough. Use a piece of scotch bright and rub down the places where the bolts slide. I was able to reduce my internal pressure from 800+ psi to 600psi with that one modification alone. It got me an extra pod or so. Regardless you will NEVER get 1000+ shots from an A5. Make sure you clean all the debris out before you reassemble the gun. I used a tooth brush and soapy water to scrub out everything and then rinsed it all in hot water.

2. Get a Techt zero kick bolt. The bolt wont reduce recoil despite it's name, but it will reduce the amount of energy needed to cycle the bolt since it is a lot lighter than the stock bolt. This helps efficiency some, but not like polishing the internals.

3. Get a regulator. This wont improve efficiency at all, but it will make your shooting a lot more consistent since it will control internal pressures more.

4. Ignore all the front bolt, power tube, back cap, cyclone and other "upgrades". Trust me they aren't upgrades and won't improve your performance one tiny bit.

5. Don't get a response trigger as it increases your air consumption. If you really want auto/semi auto fire, get an e-trigger. I have had a response trigger on my A5 and it is a "cheap auto trigger", but you pay for it with increased air usage.

6. Thin oil is best such as gold Cup or Techt Juice Drops. Friction is a huge enemy in A5's and a thick lube doesn't help either. Keep the gun lubed. Despite the A5 being a poppet and in general need less lubrication than spools the A5 rear bolt is quite large for a poppet and has a lot of surface area so keep it wet with oil. I put oil on the power tube too so the front bolt will slide easier.

7. Get a different A5. Older A5's don't have an o-ring that seals around the air port in the power tube for the cyclone. The o-ring is inside the gun body and seals to the side of the power tube. This o-ring helps some in reducing gas leakage around the power tube that is supposed to power the cyclone.

8. A front bolt with an inner o-ring that slides on the power tube will help a little with efficiency since less gas will leak around the power tube and back into the gun.

9. Get a Lapco barrel adapter block that had cocker threads so you can use auto cocker threaded barrels and then get a barrel kit and size your paint to bore so you reduce blow by. I don't recommend a thread adapter that has A5 threads on one end and cocker threads on the other. They increase the amount of air needed to fire a paintball by lengthening the distance between the breach and the barrels control bore which reduces efficiency. Later when you decide to get a better PB gun your barrel kit wont be useless since it will have cocker threads rather than A5 threads. Cocker threads are nearly universal. A5 threads only work on tippmann's. Several excellent barrel kits are the freak kit, empire 7 piece and powerlyte scepter. You can pick up used Freaks and Empire kits for $40-100.

10. Get a better gun and don't bother upgrading your A5. It will never get great efficiency, will always have a lot of recoil and be really loud. The design of the gun is not going to ever be wonderful. Split halves is going to waste gas out the crack. Below are inexpensive guns that will serve you well and be better stock than the A5 will ever be with every possible upgrade. All of these guns will blow you away with how much better they are than your A5. I have placed them in order of efficiency and least liked to most liked which happens to be the same. They all have cocker threads. I own all of these guns and like them all and obviously would recommend them.

Dangerous power G4 - $300 new, $200 used, A good starter spool, 6.5 pods on a 68/4500
Proto Matrix Rail (2010) - $450 new, $200 used, A great gun, better than the G4, 7+ pods on a 68/4500. Don't get a 2011 PMR!!!
Proto Reflex Rail (2011-2012) - $550 new, $300+ used, The replacement for the PMR with a few fixes, 7+ pods on a 68/4500.
Macdev Drone DX - $550 new, $400+ used, Any year will do as there aren't significant differences, 8+ pods on a 68/4500.
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Last edited by rkenders : 03-10-2012 at 02:04 AM.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:13 PM #30
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I have a response trigger, and I noticed it does make a huge difference in air consumption, but I guess its too late for that but Ill be sure to polish the internals and look into that bolt, thanks for the tips.
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Old 03-06-2012, 09:35 PM #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkenders View Post

3. Get a regulator. This won't improve efficiency at all, but it will make your shooting a lot more consistent since it will control internal pressures more.
I disagree, partially at least.
Getting a regulator improves efficiency immensely, at least in my years of using it. I used to get maybe (if I was lucky) 400 shots a tank. Now I get around 1000 shots a tank, just by putting the reg on there.
It also will help running CO2 because it stabilizes the pressure and gives you better consistency.
Anyways, I think that a reg does improve efficiency because the marker uses less air to re-cock.
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Old 03-07-2012, 09:35 PM #32
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http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3768287
Here's a thread with a few regulators!!! All under $20!

Quote:
Hard parts:


Blue Shocker SFT reg - $10
Pewter NXT reg - $15
Black and silver DP G3 reg - $10
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Old 03-08-2012, 04:31 AM #33
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I disagree, partially at least.
Getting a regulator improves efficiency immensely, at least in my years of using it. I used to get maybe (if I was lucky) 400 shots a tank. Now I get around 1000 shots a tank, just by putting the reg on there.
It also will help running CO2 because it stabilizes the pressure and gives you better consistency.
Anyways, I think that a reg does improve efficiency because the marker uses less air to re-cock.
Noah
The regulator will help mediate pressure spikes so I suppose from that perspective it may help with efficiency some since shot to shot you will stay in the 600-800psi range. However going from 400 to 1000 shots just from a regulator is laughable at best. That's a 250% improvement in efficiency. I would have to say it's miraculous. The A5 just isn't that efficient no matter what you do to it. My A5 has a regulator, runs at 600 psi and 280fps and I have tweaked it every way possible to increase efficiency and never got close to 1000 shots on a full 68/4500. If you want 1000 shots (7.1 pods) you will need a better gun. A long time ago for curiosity sake I spent the time to put pipe dope in the crack between the gun halves so I could eliminate as many leaks as possible. I couldn't detect a significant improvement in efficiency. A5's are just way too leaky in every way possible. Gas leaks around the charging handle opening, out the back of the gun, through the gun halves, around the back bolt o-ring and so many other places are why it's efficiency is so poor. It's just the way it is.

My A5 has had probably 200 cases of paint through it and broken 3 parts in 8+ years. The ratchet, power tube and valve all failed 1 at a time after years of use. That's pretty impressive. I still have it and probably will pass it on to my grand kids, but it is a gas hog at best and always will be.
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Old 03-08-2012, 02:13 PM #34
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Kinda regretting getting the A-5 , now that I have learned how inefficient it is.

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Old 03-08-2012, 08:59 PM #35
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Quote:
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The regulator will help mediate pressure spikes so I suppose from that perspective it may help with efficiency some since shot to shot you will stay in the 600-800psi range. However going from 400 to 1000 shots just from a regulator is laughable at best. That's a 250% improvement in efficiency. I would have to say it's miraculous. The A5 just isn't that efficient no matter what you do to it. My A5 has a regulator, runs at 600 psi and 280fps and I have tweaked it every way possible to increase efficiency and never got close to 1000 shots on a full 68/4500. If you want 1000 shots (7.1 pods) you will need a better gun. A long time ago for curiosity sake I spent the time to put pipe dope in the crack between the gun halves so I could eliminate as many leaks as possible. I couldn't detect a significant improvement in efficiency. A5's are just way too leaky in every way possible. Gas leaks around the charging handle opening, out the back of the gun, through the gun halves, around the back bolt o-ring and so many other places are why it's efficiency is so poor. It's just the way it is.

My A5 has had probably 200 cases of paint through it and broken 3 parts in 8+ years. The ratchet, power tube and valve all failed 1 at a time after years of use. That's pretty impressive. I still have it and probably will pass it on to my grand kids, but it is a gas hog at best and always will be.
I think what you're thinking of is an expansion chamber...
I'm running my A5 at about 350psi with a Prostock AutoCocker inline regulator set and tested at that pressure. I don't know about you, but I can go through two bags of paint or so before I need to refill my tank. That's with a completely stock setup, minus the regulator. My friend gets the same results, with the same setup. And, if you notice, the pressure that the marker operates on also means less air flow because of the regulating pistons in the regulator.

I do agree with your inefficiency statement, though. The A5 leaks (not audibly, but it leaks just the same) and wastes a lot of air on the cycles.

PaintballCarl, I think that you'll be happy you bought an A5, once you get a few upgrades and really learn how it works. Overall, it's a good gun!
Noah
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:16 PM #36
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The 350 has to be a residual pressure (the pressure the gun actually runs on when firing repeatedly and flowing a lot of air), not static. The static pressure into the gun from the regulator will be less than the 800 coming from the tank into the regulator but no way it is 350, maybe like 500-600. An A5 stock or otherwise just will not run on 350 static pressure. Pretty much everyone with an A5 has experienced trying to run the gun on less than 500 psi static (when you run the tank that low), the cyclone stops turning and eventually the gun stops cycling.
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Old 03-08-2012, 10:23 PM #37
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Mine runs on 350 static pressure... with my LPK...
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How A Tippmann A-5 Works

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Old 03-08-2012, 10:30 PM #38
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Mine runs on 350 static pressure... with my LPK...
OK, you got me but the LPK is a whole other animal from just adding a regulator.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:25 PM #39
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I think what you're thinking of is an expansion chamber...
I'm running my A5 at about 350psi with a Prostock AutoCocker inline regulator set and tested at that pressure. I don't know about you, but I can go through two bags of paint or so before I need to refill my tank. That's with a completely stock setup, minus the regulator. My friend gets the same results, with the same setup. And, if you notice, the pressure that the marker operates on also means less air flow because of the regulating pistons in the regulator.

I do agree with your inefficiency statement, though. The A5 leaks (not audibly, but it leaks just the same) and wastes a lot of air on the cycles.

PaintballCarl, I think that you'll be happy you bought an A5, once you get a few upgrades and really learn how it works. Overall, it's a good gun!
Noah
I know what an expansion chamber is and they are a waste of money since they are essentially an empty chamber. A regulator controls pressure via a spring controlled valve. When the pressure inside the gun drops below a certain point the spring inside the reg can no longer keep the valve shut and so the pressure from the tank pushes the piston back. This opens the valve which allows air or CO2 to flow into the gun. When the pressure inside the gun equalizes with the spring pressure against the piston, the valve closes again. It's effectively a balancing act of spring pressure and air pressure. A regulator will not make miracles happen and take 400 shots and turn it into 1000 shots. Not EVER.

An LP kit which is ridiculously expensive will increase efficiency (if you are considering buying one of these, just get a better gun instead). The whole point of the LP kit is to get the operating pressure down and to make the gun more efficient. However a reg will NOT EVER do that. The LP kit has much larger air flow passages around the valve body which allows lower air pressures to produce as much force against the paint ball in the same amount of time as does a more restricted higher pressure like the stock valve body has. There are a few other changes to the bolt assembly to compensate for the lower available energy per shot, but by them selves they don't improve efficiency as much as the valve changes do.

My personal A5 has had a regulator (NOT expansion chamber) on it for 6 or so years. It was the first significant upgrade I ever did. People kept complaining that I was shooting hot. I shot a hopper through the gun and checked velocities. They were all over the place. One shot would be 260 and the next 320 or whatever. The regulator greatly improved consistency by getting shots within 30 bps of each other which is pretty typical for any Tippmann. On the side of my reg is a port for a gauge so you can read output pressure which is the effective operating pressure of the gun. If it reads 600 psi, my A5 is shooting in the 280's. I never use the velocity screw for anything other than to plug a hole. The regulator controls velocities so much better and is how most guns control velocity anyway. When the gauge starts reading below 600psi I notice that my shots are starting to fall short and soon the cyclone doesn't operate anymore.

It is my personal experience Tippmann makes tough, reliable guns. They make great milsim guns if you are into that. However they are large, bulky, heavy and poorly made. There is virtually no precision milling in them. The gun halves are cast aluminum with zero milling. The entire Tippmann line would be significantly better if the gun halves were clamped together and then milled out so that the bolt paths were smooth and polished. This process would add cost to the gun, but then they would also be a lot better too. Even the stock bolt is just a piece of steel rod with a few places drilled out or machined down a little. The main surfaces of the back bolt are not even polished.

The Crossover is the first real attempt by Tippmann to make a precision gun.
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Old 03-08-2012, 11:57 PM #40
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Let's not forget that the A5 utilizes the patented cyclone-feed system which also uses air to operate -- if you want to do some serious work on gaining some major air efficiency, then I would start with modifying the aspects of the A5 that you can do nearly for free such as polishing the internals and swapping out the springs for lighter ones. Second, if you have a response trigger installed, de-install it. Most fields do not allow any sort of firing mode-mechanisms that fire more than one shot per trigger pull, which in simplest is "semi-automatic". In addition to de-installing the reponse trigger, I would look into getting a type of feed-system that does not use air to operate, such as a Q-Loader or a BT-Rip Clip. But if you should choose to keep your stock cyclone-feed, then look into either buying upgrades for it or modifying it in some way. Third, I would look into getting a regulator. Regulated air will increase efficiency even in the minutest amount. If you have the budget, then I would look into getting some different internals

All in all, A5's are not the most air efficient markers out -- so no matter what you do to an A5 it will still have a below average efficiency (whatever that range may be). That's just how it is and how it is designed (although not intentionally). If it were up to me and I wanted more efficiency, I would simply get another marker. But that's just my opinion

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Old 03-09-2012, 04:57 AM #41
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Let's not forget that the A5 utilizes the patented cyclone-feed system which also uses air to operate -- if you want to do some serious work on gaining some major air efficiency, then I would start with modifying the aspects of the A5 that you can do nearly for free such as polishing the internals and swapping out the springs for lighter ones. Second, if you have a response trigger installed, de-install it. Most fields do not allow any sort of firing mode-mechanisms that fire more than one shot per trigger pull, which in simplest is "semi-automatic". In addition to de-installing the reponse trigger, I would look into getting a type of feed-system that does not use air to operate, such as a Q-Loader or a BT-Rip Clip. But if you should choose to keep your stock cyclone-feed, then look into either buying upgrades for it or modifying it in some way. Third, I would look into getting a regulator. Regulated air will increase efficiency even in the minutest amount. If you have the budget, then I would look into getting some different internals

All in all, A5's are not the most air efficient markers out -- so no matter what you do to an A5 it will still have a below average efficiency (whatever that range may be). That's just how it is and how it is designed (although not intentionally). If it were up to me and I wanted more efficiency, I would simply get another marker. But that's just my opinion

-Jarred

Exactly...get a better gun. A5's are essentially a beginner gun and no amount of upgrades are ever going to make them into anything better than mediocre. My list above will all be so much better than an A5 and none of them are very expensive considering what you get.
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Old 03-09-2012, 06:03 PM #42
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Kinda regretting getting the A-5 , now that I have learned how inefficient it is.
The efficiency is not that big of an issue unless you are looking to spend more than 250 rounds each game. With just the ZKH I get probably 600 shots out of a 48/3000, but I only average like 200 shots per game, so I can get at least 3 decent length games out of that tank.

The regulators that 2nwyka recommended will help efficiency, as will the ZKH. My experience with the ZKH is that it will increase your efficiency and reduce the recoil significantly. I compared my A5 with the ZKH to a stock 98 this past weekend and it was night and day. I can't comment on the polishing as I have not bothered to do that.

The A5 is by no means an efficient gun, but the slack in the manufacturing tolerances are what make it so reliable. The trade off for that level of reliability is that if you want to be able to spray a half case of paint or more in a game without running out of air you'll probably need to get a bigger air tank because efficiency upgrades will only take you so far.
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