Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-29-2012, 11:32 PM #1
Racso
It R go good w/ Pizza
 
Racso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Nati
Annual Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Racso owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Racso is Legendary
Dye's screwless grip frames are tourney illegal???

I decided to do some research after this came up in another thread, but I believe Dye's screw less grip frames are illegal base on these rules:

PSP rulebook:

Quote:
9.3.9. A marker with settings, whether mechanical, pneumatic, or electronic, that may be adjusted without the use of tools to allow the marker to operate in an illegal manner is illegal. 75
Quote:
75 Essentially, anything that can adjust velocity, shot mode, de-bounce, etc, must be locked-down so it can't be changed on the field.
NPPL Rulebook:

Quote:
7.03 External Adjusters. Markers with electronic firing systems must be locked in a tournament semi auto mode. The player may NOT be able to adjust dwell, debounce, shooting mode etc. while on the playing field.
Since the grips allow access to the electronics without the use of tools, then they should be considered illegal.

To my knowledge, no one has been called out on this, and there may be something that comes with the screwless grips to lock them down, but some teams could get some crap for this.

Thoughts? Input?
__________________
Total Feedback:
eBay 37/0/0, Old PbN 1/0/0, PBR 3/0/0
56/0/0
Racso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 02-29-2012, 11:35 PM #2
tyskidmore3
Thats not my name
 
tyskidmore3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilsonville Oregon
tyskidmore3 plays in the PSP
tyskidmore3 helped look for balloons
tyskidmore3 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
tyskidmore3 plays in the APPA D1 division
tyskidmore3 supports DLX Technology
I think the fact that you'd have to take the grips off, flip switches, then change settings would make the tooless grips legal. Have you seen how you take them off? It aint easy on the fly.
__________________
SEATTLE THUNDER
POWERED BY
G.I. Sportz, DLX Technologies, PB Rack
Exalt, Virtue Spire,Pbnation
Diamond Hill Paintball Park
tyskidmore3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 11:40 PM #3
Zippin35
 
 
Zippin35's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: New Hampshire
Zippin35 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Zippin35 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Zippin35 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Zippin35 is attending Decay of Nations VI
All possibility aside, it seems they are illegal. Just because it is hard to do doesnt mean it fits the rules. I agree that it would be near impossible to cheat and change settings on a gun mid game, but hey rules are rules. perhaps an amendment?
__________________
I FIGHT FOR MACDEV-Macdev Militia
BUY MY 2.0 LUXE!!FST
B/S/T Perfection
New England Crusade #35
Bored? On Facebook? Come join my group Paintball Gear for Sale!
Zippin35 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-29-2012, 11:42 PM #4
tyskidmore3
Thats not my name
 
tyskidmore3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Wilsonville Oregon
tyskidmore3 plays in the PSP
tyskidmore3 helped look for balloons
tyskidmore3 is reppin' sidebar 4 life
tyskidmore3 plays in the APPA D1 division
tyskidmore3 supports DLX Technology
I ment SHOULD make them legal. By definition they should be ILLEGAL as of right now...
__________________
SEATTLE THUNDER
POWERED BY
G.I. Sportz, DLX Technologies, PB Rack
Exalt, Virtue Spire,Pbnation
Diamond Hill Paintball Park
tyskidmore3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 07:33 AM #5
GivenRandy
 
 
GivenRandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Manchester, CT
Annual Supporting Member
Good point. Not sure how that's handled. They were used the past several years. Maybe only a tool would try to take them off on the field?
GivenRandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 10:07 AM #6
DarkRipper
Elite
 
DarkRipper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: VA
Annual Supporting Member
DarkRipper is a founding member
DarkRipper is BST Legit
DarkRipper donated to help Peyton Trent
DarkRipper owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
DarkRipper is Boss
They're not as hard to take off as grips that are screwed on, but they're a complete PITA to take off, I'd almost rather have screws.

I can't imagine a scenario where a ref wouldn't see someone with their grips off on the field, especially in speedball for a tournament.

This is probably why they're legal.
__________________
My old feedback
My new feedback

old school PBC admin... keeping it real


Please read and rate my reviews! =) ---> Here!

Buy my sweet red Eflex before the kittens kill again :(
DarkRipper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 08:06 PM #7
Infinity Kid
Lonely Island
 
Infinity Kid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Bat Country: Michigan
Infinity Kid is playing at Living Legends VII
Infinity Kid supports Team VICIOUS
Infinity Kid supports Team VICIOUS
Infinity Kid posts videos on PbNation
Infinity Kid supports DLX Technology
In all reality, yes, It should be illegal! But with all the refs and new technology, I doubt a pro player is going to sit behind home bunker, take his grips off while getting pelted with paint and adjust his modes and not be able to help his team! Its just very unpractical to do!
Infinity Kid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 08:48 PM #8
eforce
Factory PB
 
eforce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicago
Annual Supporting Member
eforce is a Moderator
 has been a member for 10 years
eforce plays in the PSP
eforce is an NCPA player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Infinity Kid View Post
In all reality, yes, It should be illegal! But with all the refs and new technology, I doubt a pro player is going to sit behind home bunker, take his grips off while getting pelted with paint and adjust his modes and not be able to help his team! Its just very unpractical to do!
They won't bother doing that because they can have their boards programmed to behave differently after the right combination of buttons/trigger pulls. For example, you can have a board programmed to go to 15bps full auto after tapping the eye button four times. Cheater boards used to be a lot more common (in fact Virtue sold them to the public), but these days there's no point with capped ramping. It doesn't matter if you use full auto or semi - you really don't have an advantage as long as the cap is obeyed.
eforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 11:36 PM #9
Racso
It R go good w/ Pizza
 
Racso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Nati
Annual Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Racso owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Racso is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
They won't bother doing that because they can have their boards programmed to behave differently after the right combination of buttons/trigger pulls. For example, you can have a board programmed to go to 15bps full auto after tapping the eye button four times. Cheater boards used to be a lot more common (in fact Virtue sold them to the public), but these days there's no point with capped ramping. It doesn't matter if you use full auto or semi - you really don't have an advantage as long as the cap is obeyed.
Sure, BPS is easier to monitor, but what about dwell? If it could be programmed, someone could up their dwell momentarily to increase FPS. Not that grips would make a difference there since boards could be set to have dwell high off the break, then normal after 5 or 10 seconds. There is almost no way to detect fps off the break, too much paint and player movement to monitor just one gun.

As for the Dye grips, I just thought it was a funny technicality, and one team could cause a stink with another if they called them out on this.
__________________
Total Feedback:
eBay 37/0/0, Old PbN 1/0/0, PBR 3/0/0
56/0/0
Racso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2012, 11:39 PM #10
eforce
Factory PB
 
eforce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicago
Annual Supporting Member
eforce is a Moderator
 has been a member for 10 years
eforce plays in the PSP
eforce is an NCPA player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racso View Post
Sure, BPS is easier to monitor, but what about dwell? If it could be programmed, someone could up their dwell momentarily to increase FPS. Not that grips would make a difference there since boards could be set to have dwell high off the break, then normal after 5 or 10 seconds. There is almost no way to detect fps off the break, too much paint and player movement to monitor just one gun.

As for the Dye grips, I just thought it was a funny technicality, and one team could cause a stink with another if they called them out on this.
That's what the radar guns on the back line are for.
eforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 12:03 AM #11
Racso
It R go good w/ Pizza
 
Racso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Nati
Annual Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Racso owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Racso is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
That's what the radar guns on the back line are for.
Problem is that off the break, with the players moving, all the paint flying, and so much going on, they can't be that accurate. By the time you single someone out and make an exact check on a player, their gun can drop the dwell back to normal.

Plus, are you saying that the paintball radar guns are more accurate than a cop's, who got my corolla going from 0 to 45 to 0 in about 200 feet... (true story)
__________________
Total Feedback:
eBay 37/0/0, Old PbN 1/0/0, PBR 3/0/0
56/0/0
Racso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 12:29 AM #12
Castro #66
Not a Moderator*
 
Castro #66's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Annual Supporting Member
Castro #66 is a Supporting Member
Castro #66 is playing at Living Legends VII
Castro #66 supports Bob Gurnsey
Castro #66 is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
Castro #66 is Legendary
Castro #66 is attending Decay of Nations VII
Most aftermarket boards allow you to change all settings at will without tools anyway. It's pretty easy to memorize this and adjust your dwell if you want to.
__________________
Certified Master Airsmith
Airsmithing & 3rd Party Shipping - PM for details
Can't we all just play Paintball?


Castro #66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 01:26 AM #13
eforce
Factory PB
 
eforce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Chicago
Annual Supporting Member
eforce is a Moderator
 has been a member for 10 years
eforce plays in the PSP
eforce is an NCPA player
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racso View Post
Problem is that off the break, with the players moving, all the paint flying, and so much going on, they can't be that accurate. By the time you single someone out and make an exact check on a player, their gun can drop the dwell back to normal.

Plus, are you saying that the paintball radar guns are more accurate than a cop's, who got my corolla going from 0 to 45 to 0 in about 200 feet... (true story)
They're accurate enough to be used as a baseline for assessment of penalties. Either way, ultimately control of the field comes down to the reffing and event management. Make penalties stiff enough to crush anyone that tries to cheat with their boards and you'll end the cheating or eventually kill off anyone that does.
eforce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 07:54 AM #14
Racso
It R go good w/ Pizza
 
Racso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: The Nati
Annual Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Racso owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Racso is Legendary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Castro #66 View Post
Most aftermarket boards allow you to change all settings at will without tools anyway. It's pretty easy to memorize this and adjust your dwell if you want to.
That's the idea behind a tourney lock. For example, my guns have a OLED that shows a lock, plus I could open the grip and show that the tourney switch is on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eforce View Post
They're accurate enough to be used as a baseline for assessment of penalties. Either way, ultimately control of the field comes down to the reffing and event management. Make penalties stiff enough to crush anyone that tries to cheat with their boards and you'll end the cheating or eventually kill off anyone that does.
This. I've always said obvious wiping or hiding of paint should be such a major penalty that the whole team would get mad at the player who wiped; such as being ejected from the tournament for just one wipe. I would say it would have to be obvious that he meant to wipe (such as player is seen wiping, checking hand, seeing paint on it, and then playing on). There should be such penalties for all deliberate cheating.
__________________
Total Feedback:
eBay 37/0/0, Old PbN 1/0/0, PBR 3/0/0
56/0/0
Racso is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 12:43 PM #15
Yoheezie
 
 
Yoheezie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: someplace
Annual Supporting Member
Yoheezie plays in the PSP
Yoheezie has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Yoheezie has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Yoheezie has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Yoheezie has perfected Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Remember, once those grips are off, you have dip switches to deal with... then you gotta power it on in setup mode, then you gotta power it off, then you gotta set the dip switches back, then you gotta put the grips back on... it may not be hard to get the grips off, it may not even be that hard to set the marker up... but it does take a minute to do...
__________________
NorCal Classic #33

NCC Sponsors
Zephyr Paintball, ANS Gear, Santa Clara Paintball, Cutting Edge Paintball, Davis Paintball, American Paintball Park, Thirty First Outfitters

______________________________________________
And a big shout out to Airrix Paintball

Clone GT #709; Bob Long Victory - Supercharged, 4C Eyes, Violent Scythe Trigger
Yoheezie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 03:03 PM #16
GivenRandy
 
 
GivenRandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Manchester, CT
Annual Supporting Member
I can't see me doing that during a tournament, but I have had to strip a Rotor down during a game. Was really glad it came apart so easily. Any other loader (at the time), I would have been hosed ... and bunkered.
GivenRandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 04:48 PM #17
QuiverKiller
SHC
 
QuiverKiller's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Chilliwack B.C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racso View Post
That's the idea behind a tourney lock. For example, my guns have a OLED that shows a lock, plus I could open the grip and show that the tourney switch is on.



This. I've always said obvious wiping or hiding of paint should be such a major penalty that the whole team would get mad at the player who wiped; such as being ejected from the tournament for just one wipe. I would say it would have to be obvious that he meant to wipe (such as player is seen wiping, checking hand, seeing paint on it, and then playing on). There should be such penalties for all deliberate cheating.
This puts too much power in the refs hands. If they don't like a team, they can just say they saw him wipe and bam, team is out thousands of dollars because a ref was an *******.
__________________
Aftershock Fan #26
Shark Heart Crew
QuiverKiller is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2012, 07:05 PM #18
GivenRandy
 
 
GivenRandy's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Manchester, CT
Annual Supporting Member
A 3-for-1 should be adequate. Shoot, if the refs even caught half the paint-checks I've asked for, I'd be thrilled. And that's at a field where the refs are good and better than any other field within 50 miles.
GivenRandy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump