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Old 03-02-2012, 07:16 AM #1
Chaddt
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Post Chaddt's Spyder Imagine Project

So I was offered this gun for my birthday about a month ago from a friend of mine. I replied, "What the hell am I going to use this for?". After about a week I was warming up to the thought of paintball, and my group of friends and I decided that paintball would be our new hobby. So I received this gun for free, and I really want to see it completed, in its highest evolution.
Let's say this all started the day I denied it as a gift, January 23, 2012.

It's the first version of the Spyder Imagine, I'm not sure what year production started but it's a pre-2004.
This thing was bone stock when I got it. One side of the grip cover was gone, exposing the guts of the trigger. My friend broke it the first day he got it, and about 4 years later, I fixed it the first day I got it. All it needed was new O-Rings! How simple was that. The stock bolt had quite a bit of scratches on top.

A few facts about this gun:
Mine came with the ESP trigger. The iteration of the ESP that I have comes with the I.P.I., IMO much better than fiddling with DIP switches, and it needed the jumper block to change modes (fixed with about $4 and a trip to Radioshack, by the way FOUR DOLLARS FOR A PACK OF BITS OF PLASTIC WITH A LITTLE BIT OF METAL INSIDE?!?!? that's 4 junior bacon cheeseburgers).
This is a rear cocking bolt, in essentially what looks like a side cocking body. There's a window in the body where you pinch the bolt from either side of the gun and cock it. This makes finding bolts for this gun difficult. Theoretically you can slap almost any Spyder bolt in this gun, but that requires modification of the body (which I did anyways). For my gun, I stuck with a color scheme, dust black. All the upgrades I bought/will buy are dust black. Why? Because black matches EVERYTHING, even black (crazy).

There were a few things that I HAD to get taken care of right off the bat to make this gun playable before I fully upgraded it.

I bought a Halo B off of my friend for a decent price, and when I took it home I immediately noticed that it wouldn't fit on my stock feed tube. I didn't have an elbow adapter and quite honestly I think they look retarded, so I ordered a RAP4 clamping feedneck, and at the same time ordered a Trinity grip, thrown in with a Trinity front t-block with gauge and volumizer, all 3 of those for a nice $50 (http://gurupaintball.com/ really cool guy, sent me HELLA stickers ).

This new block is actually way cooler than just looks. Upon closer inspection the port where your reg or expansion chamber/foregrip goes in has TWO holes, both bigger than the single hole in the stock block and the port on the volumizer is wider than stock too. I saw a lot of people rocking the same block from Trinity with an obtuse angle, putting the front grip at a forward angle like an AK's magazine. I'm glad I got the acute angle because I think it just looks better and makes the gun feel more compact. This did cause some problems with my gun, and I'll get to that shortly.

After I slapped these new parts on I was pretty stoked, so I blew through a couple pods of paint. Fast forward a few weeks, and my girlfriend is getting herself a gun, an Icon E (Spyder clone) for play and for her senior project. She had a similar gun to mine and I was really eyeballing her front grip because it was pretty much the same chrome grip but it had a black part on it and I like black. We basically went through a few rounds of trading grip, line, and the colored bits at the end. Apparently her stock braided cable was 2 inches shorter than mine and it made my gun look better because the new block I got made slack in my cable. She ended up wanting it back because my cable had slack on her gun too, and in the midst of torquing on cables I somehow twisted mine too much and the next time I gassed my gun it was leaking. I'd say this problem was less the block and more me just being too rough with screwing the line in and such. So this popped up a new flag because now my gun has no way to shoot until I either got a new cable or a macroline kit. Upon researching that, I got a good look at drop-forwards, regs, and ASA's that would make my gun look better.


There was more that needed to be done. So I researched Spyder upgrades and I came up with a list of parts that I will need to acquire to both improve the performance and the looks of this gun.

Here's a look at what this gun needs performance-wise:

Longer Barrel - This should have been the first upgrade I got, because it effects the gun most dramatically. Compare a new barrel to new tires on a car, you feel the improvement.

Delrin Bolt - Converting to a Delrin bolt has a few advantages. Delrin bolts are most commonly advertised as anti-chop bolts. Delrin is a plastic like material that has the ability to lubricate itself without the necessity of oil, but you can put it on there. Delrin is also lighter than aluminum so with that you can pretty much say that it reduces the recoil of your gun, and will allow the capacity for higher firing rates with lower chances of chop.

Delrin Striker - Take apart a stock Spyder. Put the bolt in one hand and the striker (hammer, hammer plug, etc.) in the other. DAMN THAT STRIKER IS HALF THE SIZE OF THE BOLT AND ITS ALMOST TWICE THE WEIGHT is what you should be saying. Just by holding the stock striker and knowing that there is one made with delrin out there is pretty much all I needed to convince me that I needed this upgrade. I see the ability to greatly reduce recoil with this.

Performance Springs Kit - Basically when you lower the operating pressure of your Spyder you need a new spring kit to be able to put out the same velocity as stock. When you lower the pressure of your gun you achieve 300FPS with less pressure, therefore you often need a different spring to lower the velocity. This kit comes with multiple tensities of springs and different types, not just your main spring. This upgrade is pretty much a given and while not completely necessary it helps.

Upgraded Valve - Modifying the stock valve or getting a new one increases the flow of air through your gun and increases velocity. While I have been contemplating modifying my stock valve, I found a Magnaport Valve online for $10 which I will end up buying, eventually.

T-Board - I found a T-Board on PBNation which came with a delrin striker and a barrel, a good deal for $50 total (again with 3 items for $50?). The T-Board isn't really a necessary upgrade, but it increases your capacity for a higher rate of fire, and comes with new modes and settings that you can't get out of the stock board.

New Trigger - First of all, the ESP trigger is a good trigger, but man that thing sucks compared to a high end gun's trigger. By looking at pictures of other people's Spyders online I can see that back in the day, almost everybody had a Check-It Products' Sweetspot trigger. Called them, not in production. So either I'll hunt down a used one, or go with the Snapdragon Magno-trigger. I like the fact that it has a magnet.

Here's a list of cosmetic upgrades:

New Foregrip - There's a lot of different names for this part. Foregrip, reg, expansion chamber, etc. Basically the stock one is ugly as hell. PROBLEM: There's just too many of them out there, so I'm looking to buy one used. I do like the CP regs, but only the long ones. Short ones are just too short.

Macroline Kit - Broken braided cable + color options = necessary.

On/Off + Asa - I like screw on/off's, so why not. And I want a black ASA, not green. Fun fact: Spyder offset their ASA screws, making it one more special part to look for.

Drop-forward - I'm still debating this one, though I do like the look of them, I don't know how that will effect the balance of my gun and how I rig my macrolines.

Paint! - The paint on this ESP trigger is crumbling off, and the green anno on the body of the gun is scratched and cheezy. I'm thinking about either a new shade of green or making this entire gun dust black.

MILLING:


I started this mod on March 1st. First, I took a dremel and chopped off the top and back of the bolt window. Then I took it to a bench grinder and evened out the cut and took it ground it down to the cut line (always a good idea to leave room between the cut line and the actual cut itself), and ground down the nubs on the back. I then slapped a sanding head on the dremel and sanded it all down, and tried to really keep the bevel from the window in and tried to give the areas I cut a little bevel, but it's practically impossible if you don't have the right tools. In the process of cutting the top of the window off I caught edge with the dremel and made a fairly ugly scratch on the body. Once I was done with cutting, grinding, and sanding, I did a little touchup with a green sharpie (lol) and it actually looked good! You can still see the scratch if you look at it for more than a second. The next step to complete what I started with hacking the body will be to sandblast it and paint it. I still need to cut off the back cap as you can see.

Some of you may ask why I'm doing this. Well, I am a Spyder fan and I am entertained by the fact of having a fully upgraded gun and possibly having one of the nicer Imagine's in existence today.

I'll update this post with more photos as this project progresses.

Last edited by Chaddt : 03-02-2012 at 07:34 AM. Reason: images, typos, etc.
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Old 03-02-2012, 07:17 AM #2
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MODIFICATION LOG

Project start: January 23rd, 2012.
T-block, grips, and feedneck: ordered Feb 6th, put on the 12th.
Milling: March 1st.
3 HPA tanks: March 2nd, not a real upgrade but upgrade from co2 and new shiny things in a box on front porch = excitement!
Maddog Designz Springs kit: March 10th.
CP reg, T-Board, J&J barrel, ACP delrin striker: March 12th.
ACP delrin bolt and valve kit: March 14th.

This is the gun before I replaced a fair amount of the internals. Didn't have macroline at that point, just got the barrel, reg, and t-board at this time.

Gun in it's CURRENT STATE:

Damn, that's a really nice quality pic from an iPhone. Still fiddling with the valve, ordered a CCM feedneck but PayPal is taking days to verify my address.

Possible upcoming mods:


I've checked out Scenario Dreams' eyes and that might be a project for me coming up here soon. Also, will probably be ordering their 50gram microswitch.

Last edited by Chaddt : 04-19-2012 at 03:56 AM. Reason: updates
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:50 AM #3
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Couple comments...

1) Don't think 'longer' when it comes to barrels, think 'better.' Stick to something 12-14" if possible, 16" tops. If you want something cost effective, get yourself a J&J Ceramic. They go for $20 or so used and are killer barrels for the price. If you really want something effective, get a barrel kit with a small bore (down to .678 if possible). Proper paint/bore matching will improve efficiency and consistency in any gun.

2) I would recommend staying away from a delrin striker. Messing with the striker weight too much can cause you all sorts of headaches while tuning the gun. And those delrin strikers aren't completely delrin anyway. They're usually a delrin sleeve over stainless or titanium. For now, sand and polish your striker. Doing that will significantly reduce friction in the lower tube.

3) Ignore the Magnaport valve. Looks cool, but the open design doesn't really help as much as you might think. Instead, consider something like a New Designz or a Bandit valve. You may have to do some digging in the B/S/T's to find one.

4) Get a regulator. CP's are good, but don't take CO2 well, so factor that into your considerations. Bob Long regs are also high quality and benefit from being able to accept CO2 (to a certain extent). Another option is to pick up a used WGP ergo/black magic style reg, which are floating around on autococker B/S/T's all the time for ~$20.

5) I'm not a fan of macroline. It's fancy, but it's not as durable as a good braided stainless line.

6) Consider a good delrin bolt. Alamo City PB makes quality affordable delrin bolts for just about any Spyder. The reduced mass is good for reducing kick, and you'll never have to worry about an unlubed bolt tearing up the inside of your gun.
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:42 AM #4
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Hey! Good to see someone still working on these old Spyders. I remember in about 2005 these were selling for ~$60 refurbished and it was considered THE project gun. These days, you can get a VS1 for that price... but where's the fun in that?

As mentioned above, upgrades you should definitely look into:

Barrel - I always hear great things about J&J Ceramic and CP one-piece barrels. They're inexpensive and easily available. 14" is pretty standard; depending on your play style you might want to get a shorter or longer barrel, though. I used to have a 16" Stiffi and it was amazing for playing outdoors because I could shoot through brush easily, but indoors it was a bit too long to peek around a bunker with. Just stay between 12 and 16.

Regulator - Again, Bob Long Torpedos should be cheap used and I've always heard they work well on both HPA and co2.

Bolt - Yep, Alamo City PB is the standard.

Trigger - You might be able to "get away with" modifying the stock trigger. The bigger issue is the 250g microswitch. Install a 50g switch instead and it will already be much easier for you to walk that stock trigger. If you don't like the trigger style, you can dremel down the hump in the middle to make a blade-type trigger and shave as much meat off as possible. Once you have a lightened switch and trigger you might not care to upgrade.

Eyes - If you have a T-board anyway then it's not a big investment to go for eyes, but make sure you have the holes drilled correctly. I can't imagine a machinist charging too much to do this. Maybe you know someone who can help you out?

HPA - good upgrade, HPA is already so much more consistent than co2 that you're bound to see a big difference in accuracy regardless of what barrel you use. I remember the difference being incredible when I first switched.

Man, you're making me want to start a similar project... time to search for a cheap E-Spyder.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:07 AM #5
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The guy selling me the T-Board and the striker is throwing in a JJ barrel for free. I like the idea of eyes but I don't like the looks of many eye covers, and I want it to be a clean job. Now as for the ACP bolt I'm already on top of that, I hunted down their website, it's down, then I got the guys email and he says he still has them, took him forever to reply with each new question I asked him. I should be ordering that bolt on Monday, as well as the T-Board, striker and JJ. I'll check out the torpedo regs but I really like CP regs, though they are expensive. I'm thinking a good project for me to do today would be that 50g micro switch. Has anybody tried using a levered micro switch? And that magnaport is only $10 from Sundragon.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:13 AM #6
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BEST THING TO HELP: HPA, GOOD LOADER (Empire B2 or better), SPEND MONEY ON QUALITY PAINT(This means No walmart, you probably will have trouble with tourney grade unless your full LP).

Guys I see we need to re-adjust the advice
#1 Since Alamo city paintball and Sundragon parts a lot of these parts are hard to come by. We really need to stay up to date better.

Barrel- As mentioned, J&J best bang for your buck. Don't get something big and stupid. Fun to show off but 10 or 12" will be fine.

Feedneck- CCM, Don't mess around with other crap. There are some others that are good, but i've owned more than a couple of these and almost 1 of most other types.

Valve- Magnaport will work fine, don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Most of that performance is in the valve pin. Since its a budgetish build no need to go any further.

Reg- I second the Torpedo reg, Just search the B/S/T for them and try to get the upgraded delrin piston too. I love using mine on the spyder.

Striker- Leave it alone- put some dow33 grease on it. The delrin you can now only find used but never was a big thing and the titainium has long since been near impossible to find.

Bolt- Solid 2 oring bolt, Delrin material. Find an Alamo City Paintball Used somewhere, otherwise good luck.

Board- Scenario Dreams site is also down, i'd shelf that t-board and pick up a virtue spyder board w/eyes. You don't have to use the eyes but you have them.

Micro switch- Used to get these at Sundragonpps.com, but once again, start looking around, the VS/electra wont fit. Try radioshack and look for 75gram switches or lower. You might want to look into modding yours.

Trigger-Just keep an eye out, but please don't buy a trigger untill you get the marker up and running. I've seen some fast hump triggers. If anything shim the sides to get rid of the side play and then get some rare earth magnets from radio shack and make it magnetic return.

Also, Macro line is fine. just order fittings and hose from macrolineguy.com
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:29 AM #7
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I have a 48/3000 tank and a halo b, and I usually rock Draxxus paint. I like the low rise feednecks by CCM, those look good and probably makes a lower gun profile. If you read my previous comment, you would see that I already have the barrel and t-board lined up, as well as the ACP bolt.
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:06 PM #8
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you actually posted while i was writing. LoL.

Ver C t-board with the break beam eyes included? Also how much, because if it is a Ver A or B its not worth but 10 bucks at best.
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Old 03-02-2012, 01:51 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferret15 View Post
you actually posted while i was writing. LoL.

Ver C t-board with the break beam eyes included? Also how much, because if it is a Ver A or B its not worth but 10 bucks at best.
He did mention wanting to buy a ramping chip and, from what I remember, the earlier versions were the ones that needed a ramping chip for extra modes. Based on that, sounds like he has an old board. I once had a Ver A and it was just semi.

I've never seen anyone use a levered microswitch but I suppose you could make new pin holes and set the switch further back in the frame, tap a hole in the middle of your trigger, and put an adjustable screw in to push on the lever.
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Old 03-02-2012, 11:25 PM #10
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Originally Posted by Chaddt View Post
And that magnaport is only $10 from Sundragon.
Sadly, Sundragon PPS is no longer shipping out orders.
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Old 03-03-2012, 12:23 AM #11
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building up a your imagine is always enjoyable project i would suggest looking through the spyder picture thread and seeing what has been done to markers like yours in the past. One thing i see that i would do is cut off back bolt plate that the frame extended to. Its hard to see but if your mini gauge is not 0-1200 psi i would not attach a tank without a reg. and if you do get a reg i would switch it out to a 0-600 psi for more accurate readings. technically your marker is fine the way it is now. get the 09 pilot valve pin from kingman($10) and a decent reg(torpedo,hyper 2, detonator, cp ) and a spring kit(valve and mainsprings) and you easlily on your way to having a LP marker operating at around 350-475 psi.
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Old 03-03-2012, 02:12 AM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xXBloodLustACXx View Post
He did mention wanting to buy a ramping chip and, from what I remember, the earlier versions were the ones that needed a ramping chip for extra modes. Based on that, sounds like he has an old board. I once had a Ver A and it was just semi.

I've never seen anyone use a levered microswitch but I suppose you could make new pin holes and set the switch further back in the frame, tap a hole in the middle of your trigger, and put an adjustable screw in to push on the lever.
Thats what i figured, but you never know judging by the information given, he could easily mean he wants modes and doesn't have them.

Kid, dump the ver a for a virtue. I would love to see you use a ver C but i really haven't seen many since i sold my own a couple years ago.

Vs and newer are 75g lever micro switches. They are also very bouncy even though they are small than traditional switches in spyders. You can buy lever ones at radio shack, i bought a roller for giggles once.
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:29 AM #13
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A lot of the parts you can modify by using a dremel.. but honestly if you're going to pick a valave and want the best performance at a cheap price tag. Invest in a vs valve body and hammer. You can pick them up for around 50 bucks from kingman. This will definitely give you a sleeper spyder.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:02 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnkywitagun View Post
..Its hard to see but if your mini gauge is not 0-1200 psi i would not attach a tank without a reg. and if you do get a reg i would switch it out to a 0-600 psi for more accurate readings. technically your marker is fine the way it is now. get the 09 pilot valve pin from kingman($10) and a decent reg(torpedo,hyper 2, detonator, cp ) and a spring kit(valve and mainsprings) and you easlily on your way to having a LP marker operating at around 350-475 psi.
The reg on it is 0-1200 psi. Ill check out the newer valve pins from kingman. Is it this one? http://www.paintball-discounters.com/i/1218/spyder-valve-pin-itp013.htm
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Old 03-04-2012, 07:14 AM #15
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Old 03-04-2012, 09:39 PM #16
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no that is not the pin, it more slender to allow more air to flow at one time it is very similar to the new designz valve pin if you need a visual. you could order the valve body of the 09 pilot but you would also need the allen type valve body screw(all available through kingman) rather than the brass tapered type that you currently have. this combined with the frontblock you have, plus a reg should give you lower operating pressure. as far as boards go the stock board should do fine. in the case of your imagine all that is needed is a fast forcefed hopper 16+bps to help avoid chops. I have a rule for myself not to have a electro trigger frame that does not also have eyes.
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Old 03-11-2012, 03:34 AM #17
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So I got the Maddog Springs Kit today, along with a ramping chip for the VerC t-board that's on it's way. Yesterday my macroline and fittings came in the mail, unfortunately I can't install it because I don't have the metric adapter just yet. I've ordered quite a few parts, which you guys will see later. I've been looking at a few of the cosmetic upgrades for my gun and I want some feedback on what you guys think.

First we have this:
32 Degrees Spyder Velocity Adjuster
I haven't found any pics of this thing on a gun so I'm a bit skeptical about buying this, but how many people made velocity adjusters? Not many. So, is it better looking than stock?

Next, I'm having a drop-forward dilemma. I'm really thinking about either a CP direct mount ASA right on my trigger (if i tap the frame) or a CP razor drop or micro razor + CP ASA. I'm really thinking the micro razor because I don't want too huge of a drop to make my macroline look funky. I feel like the perfect look for macroline is horizontally flush, level to the reg, instead of having a drop thats so big that it pretty much is under the reg.

Let me know what you guys think.

and mnkywitagun, I ended up going with something different for the valve setup, should be in the mail shortly
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:18 AM #18
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I wouldnt go for a drop. I would put a direct mount on it. Here is what your CP razor looks like on a spyder.
Personally, the direct mount is better because it balances the marker better. You could get an adapter so you dont have to tap new holes to the trigger frame, and do a direct mount onto that.

I think it also looks better. Much more streamline. My two bits.
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:14 PM #19
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i think with the vert c board with ramping you are going to be shooting too fast for a marker that doesn't have eyes, anything short of a prophecy, or rotor won't be able to keep up. the velocity adjuster is fine if you want to continue with the black on green color scheme. I would change out the gas thru for either a solid black or black reg if you decide to get one. i would go with the adapter and a direct mount on/off. and get a peanut size 50/4500 tank for a nice compact feel. welcome to the world of modifying... there is always something to buy to "improve" your marker. Just remember to save some money for paintballs and entry fees so you can actually play with the marker!
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:26 AM #20
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What kind of eyes would I want to get? Break beam? Bounce beam? IR? What are the differences?
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:28 AM #21
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Breakbeam is the way to go. Bouncebeam is goof but not reliable due to not being able to see certain paintball shell colors. Breakbeam on the other hand. As long as the paintball breaks the beam it'll allow the marker to fire. Breakbeam = very reliable
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