[EZ Air]

First, you have to hire a good lawyer that specializes in this area. He will know who to comp, bribe and pander to. Be prepared to pay as much as $50,000 for his services but it is cheap in comparison to taking on the local politicians one at a time. Advice to any new business. Start with zoning and license first. The actual cost of the business equipment pales by comparison.

[GatSplat]

Originally Posted by All-Star Paintball

Change of use/occupancy..... Change it to A3.... hundereds of thousands of dollars that needs to spent.

Any one out there have any idea how I could pretty much get around this?
Keep my current occupancy?
What has everyone ran into opening up indoor.?

Thanks.

I went through a lot of that type of stuff with the city. I'd tell you the secret is get that worked out in the time before you buy the building (I know... doesn't help you now....)

I wrote about some of my issues in my starting an indoor paintball field pages: http://www.scubatoys.com/paintball/s...ld/Permits.asp

They actually told me my building was too close to the highway... needed to move back 40 feet... Needed new parking, needed a sprinkler system.

As I explain in my "book" there, by having meetings with the powers that be, I was able to get concessions on a lot of these points. But I was in a strength negotiating position. The value, and tax base of a vacant building is nothing compared to one that is up and going venture... now we also bring in sales tax, hire local people etc.

So most cities, if good... want businesses to come into their area and open up. And they will help you do it, if you hit the right people. Now if you already bought it, their incentive has dropped... Now they are in a stronger position.

You basically go through a pleading, give a bit here so you can get something there kind of thing. You will not get around ADA, Fire Exits, etc... but we dodged parking requirements, moving the building, and sprinklers.

Really helps to know people in high places... any chance that your cousin used to date the city planner, or your sister dated the mayor in high school, or you have compromising photographs of some legislator with a girl wearing pig tails and a nurse outfit??

[KEFarris]

Sadly, these are the problems and issues that most starting field owners never think of. Building code, ADA, Fire codes. Landlords are always happy to have a tenant spend thousands of dollars fixing up their old warehouse. I once looked at a great building and property. Landlord was going to work with me. City said they wanted me to be there. In the end, I was going to need to pave a parking lot with curbing and green space. I was going to need to sprinkler the field. They compromised and said I only needed to sprinkler the playing areas, I would just need to put in a firewall between that area and the rest of the building. I thought a fire wall was just a thick wall......wrong. A fire wall dissects the building with external wings that extend several feet from the building. When I asked the firemarshall what was risk of burning in this steal and concrete building I was told "people burn".

Parking lot was going to cost $80,000. Sprinkler/ADA was going to be about $100,000. I got out of the deal having only spent a few hundred and a bunch of time in starting the zoning issues. Someone who has never dealt with commercial buildings like this would never realize the issues involved.

I wish you the best of luck.

[All-Star Paintball]

Originally Posted by GatSplat

I went through a lot of that type of stuff with the city. I'd tell you the secret is get that worked out in the time before you buy the building (I know... doesn't help you now....)

I wrote about some of my issues in my starting an indoor paintball field pages: http://www.scubatoys.com/paintball/s...ld/Permits.asp

They actually told me my building was too close to the highway... needed to move back 40 feet... Needed new parking, needed a sprinkler system.

As I explain in my "book" there, by having meetings with the powers that be, I was able to get concessions on a lot of these points. But I was in a strength negotiating position. The value, and tax base of a vacant building is nothing compared to one that is up and going venture... now we also bring in sales tax, hire local people etc.

So most cities, if good... want businesses to come into their area and open up. And they will help you do it, if you hit the right people. Now if you already bought it, their incentive has dropped... Now they are in a stronger position.

You basically go through a pleading, give a bit here so you can get something there kind of thing. You will not get around ADA, Fire Exits, etc... but we dodged parking requirements, moving the building, and sprinklers.

Really helps to know people in high places... any chance that your cousin used to date the city planner, or your sister dated the mayor in high school, or you have compromising photographs of some legislator with a girl wearing pig tails and a nurse outfit??

Its funny you say what you say in your last wording.. Photographs and politics. I do know state rep's for Colorado. Know them very well, she told me she will help out as best as she can. You are right I can not get around ADA and Fire. Wish I could but someone out here really dislikes me and keeps calling in to the right people as well.
Monday morning I am going back down to coding/zoning and to see how much it work needs to be done to bring up to code and bring it to my owner of the building and see if she will be willing to pick up the bill if I sign a longer lease.

Larry, I will call you Sunday if you have the time. Thanks

[All-Star Paintball]

Originally Posted by KEFarris

Sadly, these are the problems and issues that most starting field owners never think of. Building code, ADA, Fire codes. Landlords are always happy to have a tenant spend thousands of dollars fixing up their old warehouse. I once looked at a great building and property. Landlord was going to work with me. City said they wanted me to be there. In the end, I was going to need to pave a parking lot with curbing and green space. I was going to need to sprinkler the field. They compromised and said I only needed to sprinkler the playing areas, I would just need to put in a firewall between that area and the rest of the building. I thought a fire wall was just a thick wall......wrong. A fire wall dissects the building with external wings that extend several feet from the building. When I asked the firemarshall what was risk of burning in this steal and concrete building I was told "people burn".

Parking lot was going to cost $80,000. Sprinkler/ADA was going to be about $100,000. I got out of the deal having only spent a few hundred and a bunch of time in starting the zoning issues. Someone who has never dealt with commercial buildings like this would never realize the issues involved.

I wish you the best of luck.

Thank you for you thoughts,
Fire captain said the same thing to me and said people burn. A fire wall did come up in the small talk I had with them. 1hour, 2 hour or 3 hour fire wall.
The only thing I have with the fire wall is that I am a stand alone building, I hope they dont make me do it. I will bring up the fact of having to sprinkle the area of the fields, that will be great! Zoning said parking lot is just fine however that is based on the current use. So yeah I am finding out and learning alot as time goes. The lady that owns the building is very understanding so I think as long as I bring everything to the table for her as in prices to do all this and give her the option I think it will go very smothly, next adventure is to look for another location if she doesnt. I wish I new what I know now, after all this hit the roof my good friend's dad working in the same department that came out to me and said you will not be opening up... And the State Rep I know "I grew up with her son and still current friends with him" husband is a fire inspector for the same area.
Asked them all for help, all they said is if you would of came to use before someone called you out on your building they could of done something, but now the city knows and it is on my hard.

[Central-AR-PB]

Nice post

[facilitator476]

Of course these are for official fields. Where I play (West virginia) fields are scarce, so if we do play any we go to are just tires, logs, a couple of inflatable speedball bunkers, and the picnic tables that we eat lunch on. You've never played speedball until you've played on a scrap-ball field

[paintdontkill]

How profitable would a strickly speedball field be in a 10000sf warehouse. giving you a field of 75x125 playing area.

[Horizon]

Originally Posted by paintdontkill

How profitable would a strickly speedball field be in a 10000sf warehouse. giving you a field of 75x125 playing area.

That would depend just a little bit on a few different things like how much you expenses are, what your population base is like, how you run the business, how many competitors you have, how your competitors run their businesses...and about 100 other things.

[LuckyElite]

Great Thread !....Lots of Good Info

[Thomast555]

Excellent post, and thanks for provided needed to know stuff. My dad owns a paintball field, and I had no idea that he had to keep all these things in mind. Shocker

[westernnewyork]

Originally Posted by TargetIndy

1. Waivers Will Not Protect You From Being Sued
There is no such thing as a perfect waiver. For one thing, people can sue for any reason. When they do, you'll need to hire an attorney. There are plenty of lawyers out there who will take a case even though the plaintiff signed a waiver.

To put it another way; it's the courts that will decide whether or not your waiver is valid. That means you'll still have to hire an attorney to defend yourself. You can't just walk into the court and say, "Your honor, we have a signed waiver," and expect the judge to throw the case out.

In some states, an individual can't sign away their rights, including the right to sue. Just because you have it in a waiver, doesn't make it legally binding.

2. There Is No Cheap Alternative To Paintball Netting
Paintball insurance companies require fields to use netting approved for paintball. Cargo netting, canvas, and tarps are not acceptable substitutes to paintball netting.

Further, it is not a good idea to buy the cheapest netting you can find. This netting typically won't last as long as higher quality, more expensive, netting. Get netting that is taped and grommeted. It is far superior to netting that requires netting clips. I've owned four brands of netting and you couldn't pay me to use the cheap stuff.

3. There Is No Cheap Way To Supply High Pressure Air Fills
High pressure air is expensive. The equipment's expensive, the hardware's expensive, and the maintenance is expensive. If you're tight on capital, look into building a cascade system and renting bulk tanks from a gas supply or welding supply company.

4. Starting A Field Is More Expensive Than You Think
Despite the best research, there will be a lot of things that you didn't anticipate. Just getting your field ready will require the purchase or rental of things like, heavy equipment (BobCat, front-end loader, tractor, etc), power tools, hand tools, hardware, cleaning supplies, and labor to help put things together.

I purchased an established field, and I still spent $20,000 more than my initial estimates. My advice is to come up with your best estimate and double it. Then double it again. $50,000 or more isn't an unreasonable estimate--and that doesn't include the cost of land.

Another thing you'll need to plan for is how you're going to pay your bills during the off-season. Most fields have 3-5 months of hot or cold weather that drastically impacts their business. Ideally, you'll want to keep enough cash on-hand to pay your bills for six months. You'll also need to make plans to replenish that cash.

5. Starting A Field And Expecting It To Pay You A Living Wage Is Unrealistic
General business estimates are that it takes a business 3-5 years to break even. If your business is only open during the weekends, or only part of the year, it may well take you longer.

In my opinion, the worst thing you can do to an up-start business is try to draw a reasonable wage from it from the get-go. That money is better spent growing your business. Unfortunately, for most this means working a regular job AND working long hours at the field.

6. Selling Things Cheaper Is Not A Good Business Plan
Selling things cheaper means you have to sell more to make the same amount of profit as your competitor. If you're a new company, you likely won't have the customer-base to compete with an established business. Your pricing should be such that when you reach your target market share, you should make enough money to pay yourself, your staff, and have enough money left over to reinvest in your business. That reinvestment may come in the form of new equipment, more advertising, or another employee to handle group sales or daily operations.

Good information i am planing on opening up a field and you have a lot of valid points i come from more of a business back ground then paintball but going to give it a try and see i know a little of the game and learning more before i get in too deep

[Chaseman!]

Hey guys, thanks a lot the thoughts from people that have been in the business are great! I am at best an intermediate paintball player, however know how to make a business run.

I often wondered about the really hot months here in Texas, and if anybody actually had any business on their fields.

Great thread, Thanks again.

[LowKey.Gov]

Great guide.
I learned quite a few things from reading this!

[SMJxKAB]

Great post!

[Irishlax50]

Seems like its easy at first but i have seen too many people lose everything.

[wangchow21]

great thread, well written

[Syrup49]

Originally Posted by Apple_Pie

When I become rich I will open a field and charge $10 entrance/all day air and $40 a case of 2000rds. I don't care if I make a profit or not. I will just do it so that paintball isn't so expensive for so many people. I will pwn the pball business.

This is what the local field i work at does. Minus the "pwn". We do it to provide a cheaper paintball place for people and we're seeing close to 50-60 people a weekend on average. The field takes a lot of work though. I only ref, do minor teching, and field construction but I'm there 13-15 hours on Saturdays, I don't even want to think about how much time my boss puts in.

[paintballslash]

Everything that was mentioned in this thread has been very insite full. My wife and I are planning on openning a pizza and a paintballshop. This will surely run us into the high hundred thousand too the million mark. Now of course we don't have that kind of money, that is the reason we are keeping our eyes out for pointers to help us along the way.

[DarkSyde Acres]

Great Read guys, Great info.

[RLand]

A partner and I are opening a new field in Texas... In fact, our Grand Opening is this weekend. Though I don't yet have any experience running a field, I can definitely agree that it costs more than you think to set one up. We thought we had all of our I's dotted and T's crossed when figuring out how much we would need to inject/borrow. We ended up being about 10k over budget, which isn't too bad considering all the work that goes into starting a field. At any rate, I'm new here, but I should have some good stories to share starting next week!