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Old 02-02-2012, 04:46 PM #148
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not sure if its been brought up but... assume you get the chip for your gun that you own at that event. then you trade your gun between events and at the next one you have a different gun *you had a dm9 and now you have an ego9*

are they going to charge you to get a new chip? if not then will the entry fees go down for a team that all has the chips already? because the price of these chips is obviously associated with the rise of the entry fees
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:51 PM #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NkdMangina View Post
I think the chips are cool idea for pro games, but for divisional play it just made cost go up too much. I question how readily available the data will be, and if it i'll even match up properly.
My how times have changed.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:53 PM #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by killer_ghost View Post
That is actually a really good idea. They could use orange, yellow, bring back pink and some other colors.
yellow/blue/pink/orange/white all those with dark and light variations with the same color shell(dark purple or green). That plus having "chips" or whatever and that would pretty much cover all the stats needed!



Another part of me says next thing you know they'll be putting the chips in us! is Virtue part of NWO?!?!?! hahaha
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:53 PM #151
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$60 divided 8 people isn't that much. Also shooting consistent and fast is a skill. Using ramping doesn't allow the player to show off this skill.
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Old 02-02-2012, 04:57 PM #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MiaDvs View Post
everyone that doesnt like this idea then likes to cheat, i think it makes it an even playing field
your WAYYY misinformed here. that, or you dont understand what people are actually saying.

many of us are annoyed about the extra cost for the chips. entrance price has gone up as well as the fact that now we have to pay for a chip for our back up guns.

some of us are also annoyed because we STILL do not know if it works in older guns like gen3 timmys and such.

its just another thing that could potentially go wrong with your equipment and one more expense we have (and its a big one).

yes i know its "only" $60 for an extra one and it can be split between everyone on the team making it a small cost but the point is that we now have to pay for an extra. we also dont even know if the ones placed into our markers at HB will be usable for the rest of the season. I assume they will be but we have yet to be given any information on these besides the OP.

dont be that close minded to think that people asking questions and not liking the idea too much like to cheat. thats just ignorant.
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Old 02-02-2012, 05:21 PM #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VPB-ChristianW View Post
Well, I might say "me too". But you've combined a few things and misstated the reality of the situation to deliver that nice soundbite.

Virtue didn't exist then. 90% of the employees of the current company (Virtue), self included, didn't work for the prior company (Advpb) then. The cheater boards Advpb weren't low cost if I remember right (I think they were like 3-400 bucks!?!)

I do recall working for Action Village (before even Advpb existed) at the time that some other board company was selling 80 dollar cheater chips for Dm4s at World Cup. I could name names, but that wouldn't be very nice and we'd embroil people in a sideshow that I believe everyone has moved on from.

I also question that Advpb ever could be accused of "introducing" anything to the average tournament player, or even the avid tournament player. Assorted gun manufacturers and/or the people who designed boards for them did that. I'd have no idea how many boards were ever sold back then by Advpb, but judging by the fact that when I came to the company and said "we gotta cut this cheater crap out" at the time they were literally using ink jet printers and cutting out "labels" by hand with scissors and and scotch tapping them on to tins purchased in extremely low volumes from a retailer.... well it couldn't have been very many.

So the premise is totally wrong of your statement. But I agree it would be pretty ironic if it summed up the truth!
I hardly believe you're that naive or complacent.

EvilPopTart essentially made the claim that AdvantagePB brought the product of cheater boards to the mass market. They did not introduce cheater boards nor did they sell them cheap. But they did "single handedly [introduce] cheater boards to the average tournament player". They weren't cheap at the time but they were relatively cheaper than the other means of getting your hands on one and a lot more accessible.

That to me that's not even what's ironic. What I think will be ironic is that someone with a little ingenuity will start making rf cheater boards out of his garage and become the new AdvantagePB/Virtue.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:30 PM #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VPB-ChristianW View Post
Well, I might say "me too". But you've combined a few things and misstated the reality of the situation to deliver that nice soundbite.

Virtue didn't exist then. 90% of the employees of the current company (Virtue), self included, didn't work for the prior company (Advpb) then. The cheater boards Advpb weren't low cost if I remember right (I think they were like 3-400 bucks!?!)

I do recall working for Action Village (before even Advpb existed) at the time that some other board company was selling 80 dollar cheater chips for Dm4s at World Cup. I could name names, but that wouldn't be very nice and we'd embroil people in a sideshow that I believe everyone has moved on from.

I also question that Advpb ever could be accused of "introducing" anything to the average tournament player, or even the avid tournament player. Assorted gun manufacturers and/or the people who designed boards for them did that. I'd have no idea how many boards were ever sold back then by Advpb, but judging by the fact that when I came to the company and said "we gotta cut this cheater crap out" at the time they were literally using ink jet printers and cutting out "labels" by hand with scissors and and scotch tapping them on to tins purchased in extremely low volumes from a retailer.... well it couldn't have been very many.

So the premise is totally wrong of your statement. But I agree it would be pretty ironic if it summed up the truth!
You think my claims/premise is wrong? Well allow me to elaborate:

I cant remember exactly why AdvantagePB dropped their name for Virtue, but didnt it have something to do with being banned from the NPPL in 2004? (see 3rd paragraph)

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/tour...2004/sandiego/

Quote:
The league's testing caught numerous paintguns which had been set up illegally during the 2004 season. A problem comes however, with paintguns utilizing control boards that are designed specifically to cheat. One of the manufacturers to openly market cheater chips was Advantage PB. Their chips, offered for a variety of paintball guns are designed to operate in legal semi-auto mode, but switch into illegal modes when a secret combination is entered on the control buttons and or trigger. Unless tournament officials know the secret code, the illegal mode could not be caught through testing. Unfortunately the type of microprocessors used in most electronic paintguns make checking the software next to impossible. The NPPL rules committee addressed this issue by specifically banning Advantage PB's Speedy Chips.
Wasn't Virtue supposedly the new legit AdvantagePB who was going to turn over a new leaf?

I do remember that came about around the same time as your ownership went on PBN and abused their user privileges by slandering competition and creating false feedback reports for the accounts involved. If you need a reminder, here's the official thread about it:

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=1104355

Spin it however you want but I remember how it went down. AdvantagePB began marketing ramping boards with programmable modes in a time when all the leagues were still semi auto. ~$150 for a chip or a ramping board back then was an absolute steal compared to what some of the other guys charged (SOURCE). AdvantagePB of course wasnt the first company to have these boards/chips but they were certainly the first to start selling them to the general public openly and affordable enough for the average player.

Im not saying its a bad thing. I had Advantage chips in my Dm4s back then and I loved them. In an age where people were using debounce to get extra BPS and not having total control of their guns, Id much rather have something I know will stop shooting when I stopped pulling the trigger and still shot as fast. You guys helped revolutionize electronic guns and even the gameplay styles of paintball through introduction of PSP/Mill ramping modes and pushed manufacturers to produce guns that could keep up. Im all for pushing the envelope of technology and rules, but dont pretend like you guys didnt do a single thing that didnt help aid the average joe paintballer who didnt have the connections to cheat the gun rules back then.

I dont believe Im mistaken about any of this as I was there and playing tournament level paintball back then. Im not trying to slam you guys or make you look bad. I dont really expect you to own up to anything Ive considering your company's history but dont try and play it off like AdvantagePB/Virtue didnt help usher in a new age of high tech cheating to tournament paintball. I thought the products were pretty fun to mess around with.

Now, however, I think its funny that things seemly have come full circle and your products are now trying to help prevent the monster your company helped to create.

Last edited by EvilPopTart : 02-02-2012 at 10:34 PM.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:38 PM #155
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:40 PM #156
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Originally Posted by VPB-ChristianW View Post
Well, I might say "me too". But you've combined a few things and misstated the reality of the situation to deliver that nice soundbite.

Virtue didn't exist then. 90% of the employees of the current company (Virtue), self included, didn't work for the prior company (Advpb) then. The cheater boards Advpb weren't low cost if I remember right (I think they were like 3-400 bucks!?!)

I do recall working for Action Village (before even Advpb existed) at the time that some other board company was selling 80 dollar cheater chips for Dm4s at World Cup. I could name names, but that wouldn't be very nice and we'd embroil people in a sideshow that I believe everyone has moved on from.
You dodge the actual point completely. Yes, in history there is plenty of pro, semipro and other teams both in US and europe who used various cheater boards made by different individuals. These cheats where everything from ramping to booster modes, where player could choose to increase fps way past 300 limit to guarantee a break. Cheating was not only on electronics, but in actual paint and its composition as well. 4.5gram paint anyone? It has m-e-t-a-l.

However, from these closed circles of friends scrubbing friends back, it was Advpb, also known as Virtue nowdays who gave these options to the mass divisional market. This is not questionable, its a fact.

Your claim, of these people moving on and such is true, but others have replaced them. Do you think its harder now to flash BPCs or create custom software / boards? Question was rhetorical, fact is, its trivial now compared to 2002 and there is alot more people who have capability to do this.

As it was said here: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...6#post74215976

the final fact is, that your chip does absolutely nothing to disarm those who wish to cheat, marketing it as a anti-cheat is gimmick. You create costs to average legit joe, under false premise of preventing cheating because stubborn quest to validate a flawed rulebook.

You know enough of computers and culture to know, that if you strongly voice that your anti-cheater chip is foolproof or hard to go around the reaction from those players who are computer and electronics savvy will be fast. Your chip will be broken into pieces, a cheap drop package created for most common markers and there goes the 60$ down the toilet.

There is absolutely no way, you can monitor solenoid or trigger activations or board electronics with a drop in rf chip. It fully relies on the base premise that chip can trust the electronical or mechanical input from the marker.

The only likely outcome is this anti cheating mechanism just encouraging those who want to play on the "darker side" to screw the **** out of your so called anti cheating measurements. Why? Because they can. Because NPPL is claiming cheating is now yesterdays news and true semi is here.

Why this topic annoys me so much, is because you have created a bloody chip that you force into everyones markers, because you are too stubborn to admit that ramping is the only truly legit way to ensure everyone has equal playing field. It can be validated, measured and penalties assorted without random bias. NPPL is doing everything, even abusing understanding of its customers just so that they can keep up the "we are soooo different and hammering a switch fast enough with a finger is an actual skill" marketing angle. Hey, how about, change rules if you can not policy them rather than force gimmicks that will not be more than a fun hack for those that want to cheat in your league.

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Old 02-02-2012, 06:42 PM #157
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at least their free lol
There is no free lunch. NPPL prices went up ~450$ for 2012. You are paying for them, one way or another.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:53 PM #158
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:51 PM #159
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all this talk about someone creating a separate drop in to replace their chip so I can cheat....someone work fast after event 1 when they get their hands on it.... pre-order money is ready

I mean isn't capping at 15 semi good enough. Doesn't virtue's "Clock" handle this BPS situation to measure if someone is shooting faster than they should be? Man must be nice to be virtue right now, cornering the market on the field with the refs using the "clock" and the players with their chips.
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Old 02-02-2012, 07:51 PM #160
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:00 PM #161
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Just saying once this chip comes out will their be biased with with the chip, will a virtue team have a disabled rof cap, will they have enabled hidden modes, will the chip be disabled god I hope not but throw this into the pot
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:05 PM #162
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I honestly think this is beneficial to the sport. It adds a small level of regulation, free of charge (unless you need an extra chip). They appear to be made by Virtue. That means if yours breaks, they'll cover you with their lifetime warranty.

Stats for each player? Seems like an awesome idea to me.

I hope this works out.
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:05 PM #163
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:19 PM #164
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"Free of charge" ain't It, ur entry fee just got upped so no its not free
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:39 PM #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdReNaLiN jUnKeE
not sure if its been brought up but... assume you get the chip for your gun that you own at that event. then you trade your gun between events and at the next one you have a different gun *you had a dm9 and now you have an ego9*

are they going to charge you to get a new chip? if not then will the entry fees go down for a team that all has the chips already? because the price of these chips is obviously associated with the rise of the entry fees
they said the chip works with all boards so I'm guessing it's universal
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Old 02-02-2012, 08:44 PM #166
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wow chips lets mod them ahha
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Old 02-02-2012, 09:37 PM #167
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i can see issues arising with the chip, hope it works out well otherwise NPPL is gonna have issues
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:15 PM #168
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There is no way in hell this is going to work.
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