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Old 01-04-2012, 05:06 PM #22
Mr. Stealthy
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MstrKey View Post
I haven't done any testing on my own but I doubt being able to dip into the tank is where the gains are made. The amount of potential energy in the tank is the same.

I think it's in the recharge rate. The valve is less efficient during every shot so you actually get less "unused" air per shot due to the slower recharge. It's no different than dropping the LP poppet into the gun.

Using lower pressure inherantly drops flow rate which is bad for efficiency. That being said, paintball guns are highly inefficient at the valves...so lower pressure can actually have some benefit. It slows the air loss down at the valve after the ball is already gone, so you waste less.

The same could be achieved with a different bolt, or valve or whatever. In and of itself the SLP isn't needed, it just happens to help on a few guns. If you have the money to blow it's fine. If not then dont' sweat it and run a normal LP tank. No biggie.

Unless you have a habit of shooting a case a game you'll see no real time benefit. Even more consistency at the chrony has a lot less affect on your game than you think.
Lower pressure actually has increased velocity in comparison to higher pressure as per Bernoulli. I am just going off what I have heard/read from ninja, blast, and the punkworks testing. The general consensus is it comes from how the tank reacts at lower pressure. The G6R was simply designed to operate lower to accommodate the tank. Now I haven't noticed any changes in consistency with the slp but as I said I have been able to shoot lower into the tank.

Last edited by Mr. Stealthy : 01-04-2012 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:13 PM #23
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Originally Posted by asfaraslogic View Post
Works on my INDY...
Awesome. Thanks!
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Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
A bigger storage area is what is the basis of good efficiency. Think AKA, it was the extra air chamber, when the second rammer was taken out and used for air storage in an Excalibur, that made the Viking the first gun known for efficiency. That and the lower firing pressure - which has been thought to be best at 225. If you don't recharge as fast then that seems to work against the logic of large air storage.
With the new Invasion if you take the front grip off and put on an aftermarket reg, the shot suffers. More storage = good. No drop in pressure of stored air = good.

A bold statement...
One that happens to be true IMO. The difference between a 287 to 293 (+-3) and 275 and 295 (+-10) is hardly noticeable - if noticeable at all - in where the ball hits at even 150 feet, which is where the target is at outside our shop window. For whatever reason chrono is thought to be all important, probably because it is the one thing that is measured easily.
This makes a lot of sense to me. Guns with large volume stores have always had a ton of added efficiency. Does the new invasion then yield higher efficiency numbers than the Indy?
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Old 01-04-2012, 05:27 PM #24
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... and the punkworks testing...
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Old 01-04-2012, 06:17 PM #25
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Touchy topic around here? I understand the confrontations with alien and them but they are the only people out there doing anything close to comprehensive testing on some of these subjects.
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Old 01-05-2012, 12:04 AM #26
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Originally Posted by Mr. Stealthy View Post
I understand the confrontations with alien and them but they are the only people out there doing anything close to comprehensive testing on some of these subjects.
Confrontations is too generous.
They agreed the biggest variable in how a gun shoots is the paint. Therefore they promised they would use at least 4 different paints. Plus they said, without my asking, that they would use multiple bores. This was to be the definitive test because they "really wanted to know if the Sweep worked" so I set aside the previous ignorant hate they had shown, trusted they would do the right thing and sent them a gun for testing. Big mistake!
They say they used one paint, they didn't show the gun shooting, but showed some "chart" and said what they have always said before - no. When I called and said this isn't the multiple paint multiple bore test we agreed. They didn't care and wouldn't do the testing as promised. Then players, like yourself, thinking they were "the only ones" doing real testing believed them.
Most players having other guns - many of which cost more - wanted to believe that their guns shoot as good - or rather that the Sweep isn't better. This "test" then was all they needed to keep that belief and argue for that belief and they are in the majority. There also was some high speed spin camera work that shows that the Sweep "does" impart spin, but which "they say" isn't enough spin. So it works - but - no it doesn't.
I don't know why they decided that they would treat Alien like they have - but what I have posted is exactly what happened.
I did the test exactly as we agreed they would do it. It is posted on the Alien website. They would have gotten the same results if they had cared enough to do "comprehensive testing".
I have continued to try to get Tech PB to do the testing and Mike agreed that he would, so I sent him a new Indy at a discount, but then last year at World Cup Mike said his teammate needed a gun so Mike sold the Indy to him and "he loves it". Like the fact that his teammate loves the Indy would make it OK that he passed along the gun at a discount without the "testing" being done.
At this point I just have to accept that I am their Rodney Dangerfield and Alien will "never get any respect", at least not from them
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Last edited by Jack Rice : 01-05-2012 at 12:06 AM.
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Old 01-05-2012, 07:19 AM #27
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Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
Confrontations is too generous.
They agreed the biggest variable in how a gun shoots is the paint. Therefore they promised they would use at least 4 different paints. Plus they said, without my asking, that they would use multiple bores. This was to be the definitive test because they "really wanted to know if the Sweep worked" so I set aside the previous ignorant hate they had shown, trusted they would do the right thing and sent them a gun for testing. Big mistake!
They say they used one paint, they didn't show the gun shooting, but showed some "chart" and said what they have always said before - no. When I called and said this isn't the multiple paint multiple bore test we agreed. They didn't care and wouldn't do the testing as promised. Then players, like yourself, thinking they were "the only ones" doing real testing believed them.
Most players having other guns - many of which cost more - wanted to believe that their guns shoot as good - or rather that the Sweep isn't better. This "test" then was all they needed to keep that belief and argue for that belief and they are in the majority. There also was some high speed spin camera work that shows that the Sweep "does" impart spin, but which "they say" isn't enough spin. So it works - but - no it doesn't.
I don't know why they decided that they would treat Alien like they have - but what I have posted is exactly what happened.
I did the test exactly as we agreed they would do it. It is posted on the Alien website. They would have gotten the same results if they had cared enough to do "comprehensive testing".
I have continued to try to get Tech PB to do the testing and Mike agreed that he would, so I sent him a new Indy at a discount, but then last year at World Cup Mike said his teammate needed a gun so Mike sold the Indy to him and "he loves it". Like the fact that his teammate loves the Indy would make it OK that he passed along the gun at a discount without the "testing" being done.
At this point I just have to accept that I am their Rodney Dangerfield and Alien will "never get any respect", at least not from them
Fair enough. What I was actually referencing regarding them was what they did in testing the SLP regulator, not the Alien marker. They are to my knowledge the only real party to put any sort of comprehensive testing to the tank. I wasn't saying they were the only ones doing videos showing the sweep system or Alien markers, just that they are the only ones doing any sort of real comprehensive testing on some of the paintball subjects out there. Frankly I have watched both of your sweep bolt demo videos in the past and found your first one to be lacking but the second to be quite good. My understanding of how the tank regulator worked at improving efficiency was based on my conversations and reading from the guys at ninja, BLAST, and punkworks and thus why I mentioned them.

So setting the punkworks issue aside, how about my regarding the Indy and Invasion. Is the Invasion now more efficient than the Indy due to the additional volume?

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Old 01-05-2012, 07:39 PM #28
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this thread makes me wanna go buy an Alien, regardless of year or model. heard they are absolute monsters on the field. and all this talk furthers those statements. Can i just 'have' one? haha
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Old 01-06-2012, 09:28 AM #29
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this thread makes me wanna go buy an Alien, regardless of year or model. heard they are absolute monsters on the field. and all this talk furthers those statements. Can i just 'have' one? haha
They are beasts. Some of the best guns I have ever shot in 14 years of playing.
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Old 01-09-2012, 12:42 AM #30
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Originally Posted by BiG MaN KemP View Post
this thread makes me wanna go buy an Alien, regardless of year or model. heard they are absolute monsters on the field. and all this talk furthers those statements. Can i just 'have' one? haha
haha, wait till you actually shoot one.
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Old 01-09-2012, 07:25 PM #31
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Isn't the SLP pretty much just like any other Ninja reg, but the springs and/or shims have been fine tuned at the factory to put out a lower pressure? If that's the case I would imagine that the author of the first post could simply obtain a standard LP spring and/or shims from Ninja and not have to worry about buying another tank/reg. It takes a couple minutes to change the shims once the tank is empty so it really wouldn't be too big of a hassle even if you switch markers half way through the day.

And regarding Aliens being beasts, I haven't shot any other than an 06Interceptor and I much prefer it over most other stacked tube electro poppit markers. I prefer that Interceptor over 07, 08, SL94, and 10 Egos. Being a couple years older than Bob Long's Vice I still found it comparable. The stock grips and trigger left a little to be desired but other than that it was a great gun, even as abused as it was. Like I said, I haven't used any newer Aliens but with Angel going out of business if I buy a new marker (will happen if I can ever get some money saved) it will more than likely be an Alien Indy.
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Old 01-10-2012, 02:17 PM #32
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No I don't think the components of the regulators are interchangeable.

Sorry to up this again but it still has not been fully answered. Since the invasion has a larger volume store than the Indy, has it been getting better efficiency numbers? I am a big efficiency guy as I like to go out and play the occasional tree ball game where I don't have fills.
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