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Old 12-04-2011, 06:55 PM #43
Racso
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkenders View Post
Poppet VS Spool valve design question...
Just to make sure I wasn't going to say something stupid I spent the last hour looking at the designs of both and common theory of operation for both. Having worked on both designs for myself and others I am familiar with the operation of both and personally prefer the simplicity of a spoolie. Poppets tend to have more recoil due to more mass moving around inside the gun than a spool valve and tend to be more complicated.

What I don't understand is why a poppet should be more efficient than a spool or why they should have less problems with first shot drop off. Many spool valve guns have 3 or 4 o-rings that may touch the bolt. At any point in in the firing cycle only 3 are touching the bolt and then that only briefly before it goes back to two in many cases. Poppet designs tend to have o-rings on the bolt and rammer. Those o-rings which number in the 4+ range are always in contact with moving parts during the entire firing cycle. Why don't those extra o-rings make for more problems with first shot drop off or require more care and lubrication? All poppet guns that I have ever seen use air to drive the rammer. I suppose that a direct solenoid driven rammer exists, but it would eat through a 9 volt pretty quick. Some poppet guns use a spring to drive the rammer forward and then use air to reset the rammer while others use air for both the forward and back strokes. Regardless, they use air in the bolt cycling process. Why is that more air efficient that the much simpler spool valve which typically has less o-ring contact with moving parts? The spool valve design is typically moving less mass so doesn't that mean firing the gun should take less energy/air? In either the poppet or spool design you need to dump air used to drive the bolt and rammer back and forth. That "used" air is wasted once it drives the bolt and/or rammer in either case. It would seem that the lesser weight and o-ring contact of a spool valve design would be more efficient.

On further thought a spool that has it's bolt driven back and forth by a 2 way solenoid similar to how the Marq works, but with no poppet valve would be the best of both worlds. You would only need an HPR, keep the greater simplicity of a spool over poppet and have the increased efficiency. Is there a spoolie like that out there?
Apparently you don't know, but it is not a debate of if poppits are more air efficient that spools, it is a fact. Even PE admits it with their Ego vs Geo youtube videos. Sure, some spools are more efficient than some poppits, any company who puts pride into making their guns air efficient, their poppits will be more efficient than their spools.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:14 PM #44
xmc1146
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you replace batteries after every time you use it?! after a month of using it, you've spent more on batteries than what a velocity is worth...
unless its rechargeable.
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Old 12-04-2011, 07:53 PM #45
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Originally Posted by Racso View Post
Apparently you don't know, but it is not a debate of if poppits are more air efficient that spools, it is a fact. Even PE admits it with their Ego vs Geo youtube videos. Sure, some spools are more efficient than some poppits, any company who puts pride into making their guns air efficient, their poppits will be more efficient than their spools.

Knowing that one style is more efficient than the other doesn't answer the question of WHY it is that way.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:32 PM #46
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Originally Posted by rkenders View Post
Regarding players...
There are people who enjoy rec ball, x-ball and any other form of PB they can play. I'm one of them. As a result you will find that on any particular field you play at that there are a mix of noobs to so called professional players. It isn't too difficult to get good players together and play a solid game that is as good as a professional game.
I think you are missing the point. I too enjoy every type of play but truly good players don't play with scrubs.

Recball players do not have enough skill to punish mistakes, from minor ones like leaving your foot exposed to huge mistakes like playing your bunker completely wrong with ****ty form.

Good players only play at practice with their team. Every player you think is good at your field, probably isn't. If they were good you wouldn't be playing with them. Playing with a mix of mediocre players and scrubs won't help me improve. I consider it more fun to get my *** beat on by a pro team, only winning a point or two, and leaving knowing I put my best effort and I've improved slightly at the end of the day.

So basically, no there isn't a good mix of noobs and pro players on any particular field. Good players stick to themselves, and scrubs and mediocre players play together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rkenders View Post
Knowing that one style is more efficient than the other doesn't answer the question of WHY it is that way.
Basically in a poppit the air just moves the ram, in a spool valve the air controls the entire bolt assembly which takes significantly more air, hence less air equals less shots.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:35 PM #47
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A good gun will not make a bad player better but a bad gun will hold a great player back.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:38 PM #48
xmc1146
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Originally Posted by jetfunn View Post
A good gun will not make a bad player better but a bad gun will hold a great player back.
well said.
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Old 12-04-2011, 08:39 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish916 View Post
I think you are missing the point. I too enjoy every type of play but truly good players don't play with scrubs.

Recball players do not have enough skill to punish mistakes, from minor ones like leaving your foot exposed to huge mistakes like playing your bunker completely wrong with ****ty form.

Good players only play at practice with their team. Every player you think is good at your field, probably isn't. If they were good you wouldn't be playing with them. Playing with a mix of mediocre players and scrubs won't help me improve. I consider it more fun to get my *** beat on by a pro team, only winning a point or two, and leaving knowing I put my best effort and I've improved slightly at the end of the day.

So basically, no there isn't a good mix of noobs and pro players on any particular field. Good players stick to themselves, and scrubs and mediocre players play together.



Basically in a poppit the air just moves the ram, in a spool valve the air controls the entire bolt assembly which takes significantly more air, hence less air equals less shots.
which team you play for?
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Old 12-12-2011, 04:15 PM #50
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Originally Posted by xmc1146 View Post
which team you play for?
Before I moved for college I played with a divisional vipers team and Total Karnage, how about you?
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