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Old 11-07-2011, 10:53 AM #1
Jack Rice
 
 
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Invasion Quality Check

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Originally Posted by everblade View Post
When I first aired up there was a leak near the solenoid...Around game five the leak stopped.
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Originally Posted by MstrKey View Post
Seems a few people are having a leak issue there. I'm betting it's the ram orings or a dry ram.
While you are usually spot on - this time... the shop put different springs behind the cup seal than on the Independence, too soft. I have used Indy spring on the last few guns going out and that has taken care of the "problem"

I have ordered new springs, which should ship next week, after Commanders Cup. They will keep the Pin and Cap in place - plus they make the gun chrono very consistently.

One thing I didn't count on is that most everyone believes "you get what you pay for", so Invasion is a "lesser" gun. But if you hold an Invasion next to an Indy you will see less milling marks. True, the Indy has more detailed milling, but the quality of Invasion's milling is excellent. The tolerances are every bit as good. If I paid twice as much to an American shop the quality of the gun wouldn't be better and might not be as good.

As stated I'm selling to dealers at wholesale price so they can sell it to players for less and I have passed along all the discounts to get the price as low as possible, while still keeping all the quality features and components.

Let me tell you all the list of what needs attention.
1. Cups seal spring - as mentioned
2. Screw in the feed neck ring hits the lever - shorter screw - will make the lever with a bigger gap to longer screw fits.
3. Detents should be longer - changed mold and making them longer - new ones ship next week.
4. Cap for Inline reg is a bit thin, making new ones and will send to any that have purchased.
5. Board will not shoot 12.5 defaults back to 15. We did not know that the board is set for 15 in ramping modes. To shoot 12.5 the tournament lock has to be on! To change you set the Max Balls Per Second, and then flip the Dip Switch.

"The Invasion is taller" ... it’s not. The Invasion’s trigger frame is thicker in front of the trigger guard, so the air bore has some where to be… plus we hollowed it out so the wires has a lot of space to live and not get cut… but the gun height is almost the same.

We have swapped out the only parts that are much different on the two guns, the LPR reg and the inline reg – using a macro. The Invasion performed no better with the Indy parts, rather the Invasion had less drop off at lower LPR pressure with the Invasion inline reg because the front grip acts as a volumizer and recharges better.

Holding the barrel up to the light, it is beautiful. We have a kit with 3 more sizes – at $599 many would expect a throwaway – but this is first quality – 2 half’s fit together very tight look down the front to where it joins and it is even. Just a beautiful barrel.

Did the too light a spring cause some to worry that the gun had “leaking” problems? Would seem so, it doesn’t. Did the short detents cause a few minor problems? Yes – but that too is resolved. Did the board freak out a couple that thought that there was “something” wrong? Yep, but there isn’t. However, are Alien guns excellent guns? and are they at very low prices? and will Alien take care of you if you ever have a problem? Yes to all – as usual.
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Old 11-07-2011, 11:00 AM #2
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will the one that hvnt get shipped out be on hold until the new parts come in jack? or will they be shipped with current invasion parts and will/should be expecting another package after the updated parts come in?
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Old 11-07-2011, 01:44 PM #3
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Only guns ordered last week are pending- they will ship with current stock and we will send parts
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:10 PM #4
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Old 11-07-2011, 08:38 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
One thing I didn't count on is that most everyone believes "you get what you pay for", so Invasion is a "lesser" gun. But if you hold an Invasion next to an Indy you will see less milling marks. True, the Indy has more detailed milling, but the quality of Invasion's milling is excellent. The tolerances are every bit as good. If I paid twice as much to an American shop the quality of the gun wouldn't be better and might not be as good.

I think the detailed "3D" milling on the Indy is what makes it appear to be "nicer" than the Invasion, and gives the impression of "better" milling.

If you look at the '06 Ego, and then look at the '11 Ego, you can see how the milling has gotten progressively better, more detailed, and less "blocky".

If you look at the '06 Fusion, and then look at the '10 Fusion, you can see how the milling has gotten progressively better, more detailed, and less "blocky".

If you look at the Indy, then look at the Invasion, you can see how the milling is less detailed, and more "blocky".

I think THIS is what gives the impression that the Invasion is a "lesser" marker........not just the price.


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and will Alien take care of you if you ever have a problem? Yes to all – as usual.

This is the reason I want to buy an Alien marker.

I want to thank Jack for taking on these quality issues in an open and honest manner.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:59 AM #6
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Originally Posted by Chuckasaurus View Post
I think the detailed "3D" milling on the Indy is what makes it appear to be "nicer" than the Invasion, and gives the impression of "better" milling....
If you look at the Indy, then look at the Invasion, you can see how the milling is less detailed, and more "blocky".
I think THIS is what gives the impression that the Invasion is a "lesser" marker........not just the price.
Absolutely, more "blocky", add that the milling on the Invasion has almost no milling marks.
Point being (and what i think you are saying you see) is that the "quality" of the machining is there - but the quantity is less.
I invite anyone to take the Cup Seal valve out of an Invasion and compare it to the Indy's - it will be hard to say which is better - which came with which gun. The bolts interchange (you do have to swap the bolt pins). They have the same electronics and the same solenoids.
It is therefore an impression of better, but the difference is almost exclusively in the time, and therefore the cost, to 3D mill the function-less part of the gun. In the interest of full disclosure it would have taken off a bit more weight, so you can accurately determine the desirability it is "fair" to say that an ounce costs approximately $100
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Old 11-08-2011, 02:20 PM #7
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Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
Absolutely, more "blocky", add that the milling on the Invasion has almost no milling marks.
Point being (and what i think you are saying you see) is that the "quality" of the machining is there - but the quantity is less.

Yes, that's what I was getting at. I wasn't questioning the quality of the milling at all. Just saying that it didn't look as good as the Indy due to the 3D milling.

I didn't realize that the Invasion was intended to perform on par with the Indy.

And I didn't realize that it would add $200 to the price of the marker to reduce the weight by 2 ounces......that explains the "blocky" appearance.

So, would it be safe to say that the only difference I'll see in the 2012 Indy would be more milling, less weight, and higher price? Because that makes me rethink the logic in my strategy of waiting for the next Indy.
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Old 11-09-2011, 06:02 PM #8
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I would guess that the Indy is going to have a more straight forward 45 frame, the Invasion frame is curved and kinda reminiscent of the 86 frame. It's all speculative at this point b/c the '12 Indy is still on the drawing board.

Saying one Alien is intended to be on par with another is purely academic. They all shoot below par for the course as far as I'm concerned b/c every one of my Aliens shoot amazingly well. My Interceptor is still my favorite to shoot. I can hammer on that frame so easily.
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