[J. Stein]

Tip of the hat to 4x4 rider (Josh DeYoung)

Originally Posted by 4x4 rider

Heres a thought, I would like to hear why some of the upcomig teams (and team owners) would want to go "Pro" in a league whether it be PSP or NPPL, not knowing if it will be around in the fututure. Other than for the pure aspect of playing the best in the world.

Originally Posted by J. Stein

Josh,
I think that's a great topic. However, in the past few weeks we've seen two of the teams allegedly considering a move up implode (TKO and Assault). I don't know if Big Jim (Top Gun) posts on PbNation. That leaves Dave and me. And if Dave doesn't post, just me. Which isn't really a thread, so much. But maybe if it was opened up to a more general discussion on what the benefits of moving up are, and then Dave (and I) can post in that thread without needing to stand up in front of it.

Originally Posted by Fox4paintball

Josh - I think the answer is to the question is fairly obvious

We're all competitive people - or we wouldn't be doing what we're doing. Competitive people want to push themselves - play against the best - be the best. Moving up the ladder (whether that's from D4 to D3 or D1 to Pro) is just a measurement against ourselves - finding out where we fit in the world of tournament paintball.

On a business side of things (running a team that is) moving up means you can hopefully get a little more out of your sponsors then you did the previous year. More publicity, more followers, etc... means more value to the sponsors. Unfortunately I think the steps are fairly shallow until you get to the Pro ranks. Meaning that the sponsors (KEE Action Sports, Planet Eclipse, etc..) see real marketing and lead generation value in the PRO teams. When you start reaching the Marketing Dollars and not the Sales dollars then you've hit the sweet spot.

As for your actual question - why would we want to bump up to pro in a league that might not be around in a year or two? Well, the truth is, if we waited till we were 100% certain that our chosen league would be around for the foreseeable future – we’d be waiting for ever. There are always off season rumors of leagues folding, leagues merging, new leagues forming, etc.

Originally Posted by 4x4 rider

Thanks for that answer Dave, its generally what I thought I would get from a team owner. As for the league part of the questiin, I guess its true, we would be waiting around for ever. Look at basketball right now they are saying no season lol. I still would like to hear from a player off of either 187 or the Hurricanes.

[paintballa12788]

I couldn't agree with Dave more. If the move isn't made when given the opportunity, players could forever be asking themselves what if, if that opportunity is gone (league gone, etc. ).

Matt
TopGun

[4x4 rider]

Now with that said, does it worry the team owners or players that they are dumping a decent amount of money into a decision that might possibly be a waste of effort for towards a league and/or format that may not exist next season. It actually worrys me more than the whole basketball thing, because with basketball, the players are getting payed and have been payed quite well. Paintball players pay out of pocket ( for the most part), to play in a certain league. I may be digging a bit deep here, if I am just let me know, I just wanted to help get some more traffic in this forum.

[Freak36]

Originally Posted by 4x4 rider

Now with that said, does it worry the team owners or players that they are dumping a decent amount of money into a decision that might possibly be a waste of effort for towards a league and/or format that may not exist next season. It actually worrys me more than the whole basketball thing, because with basketball, the players are getting payed and have been payed quite well. Paintball players pay out of pocket ( for the most part), to play in a certain league. I may be digging a bit deep here, if I am just let me know, I just wanted to help get some more traffic in this forum.

I don't really think it's a big issue. Even if it's for only one season, a team that is aspiring to be a pro team would be much better off gaining their experience and new sponsors found in league A's top level. If league A collapses, having had already played at the professional level, they then would have a better chance of getting into league B's pro division.

[raehl]

Isn't this kind of a fantasy question? There's no doubt whatsoever that PSP will be around next season.

But all that aside, how is going Pro any different than deciding to play at all? Couldn't you ask the same question about moving up to D1, or D2, or even entering a tournament, or even deciding to practice?

If the existence of a league a year or two or even the next season is a concern for you, you're not going to want to play D1 either. So once you've decided that you're going to play, you're going to pick the division that offers the best reward for your resources.

- Chris

[4x4 rider]

Well put, that is one of the reasons I would still put my time and effort into it.

[tniz]

From the sounds of it, 187 is officially making the jump next season. Was a little surprised to hear it in the middle of an event though.

[4x4 rider]

Yea they were pretty excited the past week about it, im glad we found out now though, the suspense was killing me.

[danbob1088]

I mean, regardless of what happens Sunday, they wrap up the season title with moving to Sunday, correct? I'd say the division title gives a good reason to move up.

[Freak36]

Originally Posted by danbob1088

I mean, regardless of what happens Sunday, they wrap up the season title with moving to Sunday, correct? I'd say the division title gives a good reason to move up.

Yeah I think 187 cRew is deserving of that Pro title, they have been taking names since grabbing a 2nd place finish in the AXBL. Besides, that series title gives them 1/2 off every event in the Pro division for the following season, might as well take advantage of that.

[bacaloco]

I was doing my periodic lurking--hey Jeff--and found this kinda interesting for a couple of reasons. There is no question that competitive teams and players need to keep seeking new challenges. However, making the final step to pro isn't the same as making any of the others. There are a number of reasons why. First, there is nowhere else to go. It is a commitment that will affect the status of your players virtually permanently with respect to competitive paintball. It is a much bigger leap than any of the others as well and because it's the final step the team making the leap has a finite period of time in which to "succeed", however they choose to gauge success. And for teams and players who haven't been there before they don't really know what they're in for.
With respect to sponsorship there are a lot of pro teams out there with a lot less than I suspect the average player imagines. Being pro alone doesn't earn you anything these days.
And lastly the decision to go pro doesn't really reside with the team owner/players.
Of course none of those are reasons not to do it but they may be reasons to think about it long and hard first.

[denouche67]

I agree with Baca on how being pro doesnt have much to bring to the table. Pro players dont really get paid anymore. well at least not like they use to. Even working for the paintball companies most just make enough to get by. D1 players get just as much of a job opprotunity as pro's do through paintball fields and companies also. The only real deffrence is they dont have to put up a penny for the tournament so win or lose they go home happy. Now being a D1 team in my eyes is just as good as being a pro team if not even better (in some cases). Unless we get more spectators in this sport I dont see us going anywhere further then we are now. I hope both leagues merge and they allow the crowd to yell and charge $10 a day because I learned in my line of business... 5 bucks is a big diffrence... And then maybe being a PRO team would mean something again

[bmoney003]

ok I will address the last two posts.

We do not want to be pro for the "luxuries" of being pro. that is silly. We want to be pro because it is the best competition on the planet. so be it we get smashed, but what if we dont. now we are saying we did it against the best tere is. I pretty much feel since we won the season series, and 2 of 4 events we would be *******s if we didnt bump (my personal feeling), not that we are doing from peer pressure, but we've acoomplished it. time for the next step in this journey.

as far as win or lose and go home happy cause its free, is just no where near accurate. We all are competetors, I dont care if I am playing checkers vs my grandmother, Im pissed if I lose. BUT....I would MUCH rather be a small fish in a BIG pond then a Big fish in a little pond.

Also I dont care about it effecting my status from here on out. to be honest I dont want to play any other form of paintball (besides a scenario here and there). I just cant do it. again I am too competetiove. I dont want to play a local 5man in two years...I want to play the best competition out there. If i am unable to for whatever reason play at my ranking then I would rather not play at all. I get no reward by beating up on players that just dont have experience. but this is just me.

either you are in this to strive to see how high on the mountain you can get, or you truly are playing this (for what my wife loves to call it) hobby.

hope this helps the discussion along

[SAMBROWN]

Originally Posted by bmoney003

ok I will address the last two posts.

We do not want to be pro for the "luxuries" of being pro. that is silly. We want to be pro because it is the best competition on the planet. so be it we get smashed, but what if we dont. now we are saying we did it against the best tere is. I pretty much feel since we won the season series, and 2 of 4 events we would be *******s if we didnt bump (my personal feeling), not that we are doing from peer pressure, but we've acoomplished it. time for the next step in this journey.

as far as win or lose and go home happy cause its free, is just no where near accurate. We all are competetors, I dont care if I am playing checkers vs my grandmother, Im pissed if I lose. BUT....I would MUCH rather be a small fish in a BIG pond then a Big fish in a little pond.

Also I dont care about it effecting my status from here on out. to be honest I dont want to play any other form of paintball (besides a scenario here and there). I just cant do it. again I am too competetiove. I dont want to play a local 5man in two years...I want to play the best competition out there. If i am unable to for whatever reason play at my ranking then I would rather not play at all. I get no reward by beating up on players that just dont have experience. but this is just me.

either you are in this to strive to see how high on the mountain you can get, or you truly are playing this (for what my wife loves to call it) hobby.

hope this helps the discussion along

You have the right mindset. I remember back in my day playing paintball teams were always moving up, they all wanted to play the best and become the best.
I hate to see the same teams in D1, d2 and d3. Have some confidence and some pride and bump up, thats what me and all my friends did, seems players these days are more interested in having the most unique gun. I never had anything special, as long as it shot good I was fine, I wasn't scouring the internet for matching white or pink grips.

The only legitimate reason for a team that is consistently winning in their division not to step up is whether or not they have the capital to finance the first year.