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Old 09-25-2011, 06:54 AM #1
SHAG77
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The Official/Unofficial Tanker & Anti Tanker Thread.

Hi,

Please place your comments, concerns, arguments, smash talk, etc, in regards organizing tanker and anti tanker play mainly at Skirmish Paintball. Mainly due to to the lack of uniform rules for each side. However, other fields, organized events, etc, are more than accepted to comment.

I have create a forum for positive growth and uniform ruling for Tanker and Anti Tanker at Skirmish and all other fields. I encourage all participants to be civil and make a contribution to the thread. (yes I know this Paintball Nation sorry for my moment of utopia.) All are invited not just the players but field management staff as well. All input is greatly appreciated.

Thank You!
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Old 09-25-2011, 08:02 AM #2
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:35 PM #3
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Tank rules

Tank rules have to be balanced. If they aren't quality tankers are not going to spend the time and money to go to a field to be a nerf pinata.
Skirmish is a fun field with a very friendly staff. this isn't about hating skirmish ect.Cause they have been very good to me and my guys.
but the current tank rules are rediculous and severly unbalanced. now i am sure most of the rules are being made by people who haven't spent 5 minutes in a paintball tank and probably haven't even fired a launcher.So hopefully they will take some advice from the experts in this field and that is us the tankers nad some of the anti tank guys

Having unlimited launchers coupled with not being allowed to blow bunkers COMPLETLEY unbalances the game. I dont see why its ok for an at guy to shoot a nerf at a tank when we cant shoot at a barrel. There are so many people at these games there is bound to be a person near either. thats why we chrono our cannons , dont aim for actual human beings. Plus lets be realistic a nerf isn't exactly a shotgun slug its a 1 oz peice of soft foam. PLEANTY of field have some sort of rule where you can blow bunkers and there are no problems.

Here is what my basic rules would be like if i made them.

Limited amount of launchers- sure some people don't like this everyone wants to be a a/t guy. BOOO $%^&ing whoo. We can limit the tanks then we can limit the launchers also .no reason why anti tank guy cant be a role like sniper or spy. give out 6 pr side or something. that's more than fair. the whining a/t guys are going to really whine when there are no tanks at the game to shoot at due to unbalanced rules.

Allow tanks to blow bunkers- no it doesnt have to be unlimited amount of bunkers. maybee 5 pr insertion or something. to help give the tanks a fair chance

Frontal hits to tanks dont count (except by other tanks). Historically this is pretty accurate also. It is in place at other fields too. In WW2 there where tanks on all sides that where prettyor totally invulnerable
to handheld anti tank weapons. so this isnt a fabrication. Let the a/t guys work for there kills just like the tanks have to work to kill them things will be more balanced and more competitive.making the game fun for everyone.

Grenades- again another rule to please the crowd at the expense of the tankers. Its not like tanks are paid or even comped anything to play . We spend THOUSANDS of$$$ building,maintaining and transporting our tanks to these games. so i don't think it's too unfair to ask that we have a fair consistent(no reason to revamp the tank rules every year)set of rules to make the game better for everyone.

Every noob on the block has a launcher and wants to be an anti tank hero. Unless the rules are fair they won't have anything to shoot at

I'd also like to saythe tank refs at skirmish have been great the last few years. they give us refs that really work and know what they are doing

Have fun at Berlin. Ive been looking forward to a good tank battle game at west point for months and am going to that instead.They are pretty tank friendly there. they comp a reg and case, limit a/t players and there are few bunkers for the a/t guys to hide behind. and best of all one big highway to hell for the tanks to slug it out down. Berlin is a great game also for the grunts have a great time!

Go Deutschland!
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Old 09-25-2011, 12:44 PM #4
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"Give tanks a fair chance"? you mean besides the fact that they are motorized, and cant be eliminated the same way that 95% of the rest of the players. Id say you have it backwards.

The only way players have "a fair chance" against a tank is if they are willing to go out and shell out the bucks to buy a launcher. And even then its not like we can hide behind netting and take aim and shoot while not having to worry about incoming fire.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:05 PM #5
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The whole point of a "tank" is that it IS neigh invulnerable. It IS supposed to be almost impossible to defeat, EXCEPT by another tank! That is the entire freaking idea!

Tanks have always been the scourge of the infantry, only out done by the King of Battle, Artillery.

However, in paintball, "tanks" are severely handicapped from emulating their real counterpart's true might and awesome battlefield fire power. Real tanks outrange almost all infantry AT countermeasures. On the side of the paintball infantry player, however, there are numerous advantages present. The paintball grunt can simply hide behind a tree, barrel, or anything capable of stopping a paintball, and they are relatively safe. The PAV crew, like their real counterparts, are severely handicapped in both visibility, and hearing, so it is quite easy for opposing infantry to escape notice by the tankers.

If you are having issues with apposing armor, then one of two conditions are probably true:

The opposing team is employing superior tactics than you/your team. In which case, they deserve the win, so don't whine about it, learn from it, and improve you own game tactics.
Or.

You are incapable of playing in a scenario that include tanks, and enjoying the experience. This seams rather likely given your response. For whatever reason, you cannot, or choose not to recognize the unique characteristics and playing dimensions that tanks bring to the game.

The key to enjoying the challenge, is to recognize the obstacles (tanks, in this case) and acknowledge the appropriate response / counter measures required, then employ those countermeasures. It is just another part of the game.

What is the point of having to tag all the bases in baseball to score a run? Why bother with the bases, just hit the ball and step on home plate, SCORE! NO, then it would NOT be "Baseball".

Paintball scenario games have various rules for the purpose of:
1) Safety.
2) Entertainment value.
3) Game Balance.

All three are required to encourage a good, safe, entertaining, memorable game that players not just have fun at, but want to do again! Repeat customers are vital to a successful, profitable PB scenario promoter.
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Old 09-25-2011, 05:56 PM #6
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We had a long talk about this at practice today.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:40 PM #7
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Whether anyone chooses to realize it or not, tanks play an intricate role at big games(especially ION). With such a large amount of players , i would say 90% of them have testicles the size of humming birds. I have seen many teams all decked out in the newest military camos, carrying their customized milsim markers, named after famous miltary companies, who play 75 yards behind the actual battle front! When we come into the game and push the lines, everyones testes seem to grow a little bit and they unroot from the bunkers that they have been behind for the last 15 minutes. We make things happen and motivate the troops.
As far as the A/T goes, i do believe they should be limited to say 2-3 for every tank fielded against them. We were TOLD by the tank refs that we had to insert at a particular spot on the tapeline. At times, it was actually behind enemy lines. I argued with the ref about it and was told its either there or not at all! Only after an allied player caused quite a commotion was the rule eventually changed.
There were atleast 4 launchers waiting on us every time we crossed the line. DUCK SHOOT! As far as keeping us off the field all day, you obviously werent there when we completely emptied the field of allied troops atleast 4 times. We also circled back through the woods to chase down the retreating troops.
Maybe i will change my credits to show" 100s of allied troops killed ION 2011" Just saying.
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Old 09-25-2011, 09:58 PM #8
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:54 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNCRouterman View Post
The whole point of a "tank" is that it IS neigh invulnerable. It IS supposed to be almost impossible to defeat, EXCEPT by another tank! That is the entire freaking idea!

Tanks have always been the scourge of the infantry, only out done by the King of Battle, Artillery.

However, in paintball, "tanks" are severely handicapped from emulating their real counterpart's true might and awesome battlefield fire power. Real tanks outrange almost all infantry AT countermeasures. On the side of the paintball infantry player, however, there are numerous advantages present. The paintball grunt can simply hide behind a tree, barrel, or anything capable of stopping a paintball, and they are relatively safe. The PAV crew, like their real counterparts, are severely handicapped in both visibility, and hearing, so it is quite easy for opposing infantry to escape notice by the tankers.

If you are having issues with apposing armor, then one of two conditions are probably true:

The opposing team is employing superior tactics than you/your team. In which case, they deserve the win, so don't whine about it, learn from it, and improve you own game tactics.
Or.

You are incapable of playing in a scenario that include tanks, and enjoying the experience. This seams rather likely given your response. For whatever reason, you cannot, or choose not to recognize the unique characteristics and playing dimensions that tanks bring to the game.

The key to enjoying the challenge, is to recognize the obstacles (tanks, in this case) and acknowledge the appropriate response / counter measures required, then employ those countermeasures. It is just another part of the game.

What is the point of having to tag all the bases in baseball to score a run? Why bother with the bases, just hit the ball and step on home plate, SCORE! NO, then it would NOT be "Baseball".

Paintball scenario games have various rules for the purpose of:
1) Safety.
2) Entertainment value.
3) Game Balance.

All three are required to encourage a good, safe, entertaining, memorable game that players not just have fun at, but want to do again! Repeat customers are vital to a successful, profitable PB scenario promoter.
Great post man .

The first time i played against a tank in a "big game" you know what we all did? Run away! we didnt even have a way in the rules to take it out.and the game was still fun as hell. We also had a chopper overhead shooting at us and couldnt do anything about that either.Now im not saying to everyone i want tanks to be invincible.But the rules must be balanced more at some fields. I dont bring my tank to games for the sole enjoyment of the enemy anti tank players or every grunt with a grenade. The tanks are alot cooler when the rules are balanced. Tankers are some of the most dedicated players in the game. Lets just make the game fun for us too
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Old 09-25-2011, 10:57 PM #10
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Originally Posted by Jrob33 View Post
"Give tanks a fair chance"? you mean besides the fact that they are motorized, and cant be eliminated the same way that 95% of the rest of the players. Id say you have it backwards.

The only way players have "a fair chance" against a tank is if they are willing to go out and shell out the bucks to buy a launcher. And even then its not like we can hide behind netting and take aim and shoot while not having to worry about incoming fire.
anyand EVERY noob with a nade or launcher can easily take on a tank under the current rules at some fields. You sound like you are a complete rookie and i don't see why you are even posting on the subject. The whole idea of a tank is that ITS AN ARMORED VEHICLE AND HAS AN EGDE ON THE BATTLEFIELD!
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Old 09-26-2011, 07:22 AM #11
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I loved seeing the big tanks at ION but they seemed to be at a distinct disadvantage due to the sheer volume of launchers and I hope the rules get balanced out for next year. I like the idea that only tanks can take each other out from the front and that grenade hits shouldn't count for a game like this. Maybe it even needs to go as far as to designate areas on the tank that are vulnerable: hitting the wheels/treads immobilizes and two hits to the body eliminates.

If the infantry want something that they can take out easier than the big motorized tanks then Skirmish should allow walking tanks. I am not suggesting allowing every wacko who duct tapes cardboard to themselves but those walking tanks (like mine) that have proven themselves on the field and are structurally sound and safe. Walkers could be eliminated with one rocket or one grenade.
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:50 AM #12
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jrob33,
I re-read my post, and wanted to emphasize that I am not saying "you are incapable of playing in a game with tank", but rather that currently you are failing to "enjoy" a game that includes tanks.
It is just a mind set, and getting fired up about taking on an exceptional challenge.
Don't take these posts as personal attacks, just as "friendly" encouragement to reconsider your viewpoint at least, and both view and tactics at best.
---
ps7ctr31,
Some fields do have more complex tank elimination rules, as you mentioned, multiple hits to defeat a certain class of tank, I think they also include rules differentiating between frontal armor and side or rear armor.

These additional rules are great in concept, with respect to adding a bit of "realism", however, they also carry a manpower cost, as well as potentially increasing frustration among the general player populous. More rules mean more opportunities for a bad or missed call, which tends to raise the irritation level of all concerned. In short, adding rules to enhance "realism" must be carefully considered against both game balance, and playability. The more complex the rule set, the more important it becomes that EVERY player on the field is VERY well versed in the full set of rules. This is where the game coordinator has to be careful, as a super realistic rule set is bound to be super complicated, and therefore, very hard to enforce, even when most players are reasonably well aware of the rules. Just too easy to miss something, and then one player or team gets unhappy or resentful, which takes away from the purpose of the game, to have FUN.
---
Really now, the core purpose for this entire industry is to provide an activity that the participants consistently consider "FUN".

What are the core requirements for any game to be "FUN"?

Entertainment Value.

Player Safety. AKA: Risk management. Checkers is probably one of the safest games, but not always the most fun, particularly in a group setting, where as "running with the bulls" is probably one of the more adrenaline intense activities you can find, however, it carries a very real and present danger of injury or death. I personally would not find trying to outrun a heard of unhappy bovines very entertaining as a participant, especially as I am several decades and fifty plus pounds past my running "prime".

Clear objectives to win.

Balanced game play. It is not much fun to play a game that you know you have almost NO chance of winning, and for that matter, it is not much fun playing a game that does not challenge you. An "easy" win is not very satisfying. A hard fought game where all players are clearly putting forth a major effort, honoring the rules, playing with good sportsmanship, and overall just giving it their best shot is the most satisfying game, and a victory is simply icing on the cake.

The balancing act is where I observe the most bickering regarding tank rule sets. One has to acknowledge that certain "unrealistic" constraints have to be em-placed and enforced as a concession to safety, and sometimes for game balance or other times for playability. All of these factors can change from one field to another, so often, the rules have to be tweaked to suit the scenario AND field of play.

The arguments for allowing tanks to defeat bunkers seem to me to be overwhelmingly clear, where allowing tanks to defeat (blow up) buildings is less clear, enforcement, ambiguous eliminations, how many licks does it take to get to the center of a Tootsie Pop (or nerfs to take the building totally down) etc, are legitimate arguments against allowing tanks/laws/nerfs to defeat (large/substantial) buildings. Safety radius rules are pretty well forced upon us by the insurance underwriters who cover the event, so not much use in fighting that fight here.

However, which ever way your field leans on the Tank rules, it is crucial that the rule set be clearly stated, and EVERY player made aware of them, just as EVERY player needs to be aware of the NORMAL player elimination and conduct rules. It is equally crucial that ALL the presiding rules of the game be CONSISTENTLY followed and ENFORCED. Enforcement can be by Ref, but should be SELF enforced.

With Tanks, it is often hard to Self Enforce because of the noise factor, the crew may simply NOT know they have been legitimately eliminated, and need to be informed, upon such action, they will (well, should anyway) promptly discontinue firing and perform the appropriate display of their "out of play" status.
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:35 AM #13
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Well 1st SS we already said we would support the rule changes at Skirmish. So dont let us hold it back cause well be happy shooting tanks either way.
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Old 09-26-2011, 09:36 AM #14
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And if theres no A/T, whos going to take you out?
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Old 09-26-2011, 03:03 PM #15
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i know when i was the Head tank ref at Skirmish i tried Limiting the Grenades affect on tanks. Like yea ok maybe they can disable them( i.e. blown off track if hit with or run over one) Unfortantally it did take. I will admit the sheer amount of people that can take out the tanks amaze me and does give the tanks more of a disadvantage. I have always agreeed that the nu,ber of launchers should be limited maybe two launchers per side per tank allowed(each team has three tanks therefore can have six launchers) and none of this homemade potato gun crap that is floating around that my 15 year old cousin can make in his room. They need to be Manafactured or if there home made need to be up to the same specs as the Manufactured( ive seen FORGES there awesome and safe).Now for the bunker/building thing... I think thats its a good idea. Not every building but put a white sheet with a target on the side of a building or bunker and say that the rocket has to come out of a Tank and has to hit the target for it to be emilinated. Ive seen it done at other fields and it works. Now im not saying that Skirmsih is wrong in what theyve done because jut for the sheer size of their games it works and give the staff less they have to worry about watching( trust me we had more than enough already) but maybe we could push to get them to twaek the Tank kill and launcher rules
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Old 09-26-2011, 08:22 PM #16
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Going to Skirmish with Dawn's Panther is always a big mix of positive and negative. We've always had great refs and I understand the limits there and generally being the largest (or one of the largest) tank there when we show up I always try to make sure the other tanks get first shot at the field because there's generally a limit on tanks. The biggest negative is simply that the Panther is just too big for the field with the way the trails are set up. I'd like to see a tank trail cut over into the German insertion point. I've even walked the area looking it over for such a possibility but it'd take me a day or two of work with the saws, some of the crew and the tank itself to pull that off (maybe next year lol).

I would like to see less AT launchers on the field but I'll be working on that sooner or later and hopefully they won't be as much of a bother to me in a few years.

So between the tight and limited trails and the large number of AT guys I never take heading out onto the field at ION too seriously. If I ever did I'd bring a much smaller tank the next year.
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Old 09-27-2011, 12:35 AM #17
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Even without a launcher that you can use right away, there are other things infantry can do to keep the tank occupied. I've seen so many times people just high tail it. You can displace bunker to bunker..or just stay put and annoy the gunner. Now, with everyone having a Metadyne, everyone is an AT guy. I think if you are an AT guy, you should have a shoulder fired JCS or Metadyne. Now this does two things. Makes you earn your way into position to get the kill shot AND forces team work to allow you to even come close enough. You could limit AT guys, but also give them other things to blow up. I like when they have bunkers and buildings that can be blown up. In real life, they used many Bazookas to take out emplacements. This also would get them 2nd story campers out of the buildings.
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Old 09-27-2011, 01:40 PM #18
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Never been a fan of limiting launchers, prefer to limit the number of nerfs they can carry. But another method is limit the AT launchers( x number to number of tanks) the rest can be anti- bunker only. Now the field can increase that number based on how the game is going. Team A is kicking butt allow team B more AT launchers.
AT launchers can't kill a tank from the front. Walking tanks (WT) can be.
A AT cannon or a recoiless rifle(RCL)( tripod mounted launcher) will be treated the same as a tank's main gun. This will be more realistic.
I'm a AT guy but as stated if the tankers feel it's unfair they will either go else where or not Play!!!!
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Old 09-27-2011, 07:51 PM #19
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WOW alot of assumption were made about me,

I have played at fields all across the south as well as OK d day field, Ive played against the black hearts and their awesome tanks, as well as tons of other tanks, multiple times. I love having tanks in a game.

WHAT I was getting at is IT SOUNDS PRETTY RIDDICULOUS FOR SOMEONE IN A TANK TO COMPLAIN ABOUT NOT HAVING ENOUGH OF AN ADVANTAGE! the scales are tipped Heavily in favor of the tanks.

you can call me a rookie if you like and youre repeated comments about "every Noob having a launcher" pretty much tells me all I need to know about your attitude.

You want to limit anti tank ammo, but Im assuming you wouldnt be in favor of limiting your own ammo correct? Of course not because half the fun of being in a tank is getting to spray all the infantry with your mounted double troubles or whatever while sitting behind an invincible "bubble"

Maybe those "noobs" ennjoy playing anti tank, and most have spent several hundred dollars purchasing those lauchers, or even a fair amount of man hours, and blood sweat and tears, building those launchers.

Ya know something if you insist that a field limit others peoples fun, just so the game is more fun for you, then I truly hope the field owner tells you to kick rocks. There are plenty of tankers out there who wont whine about how unfair it is to have people shooting rockets at them.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:12 PM #20
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WHAT I was getting at is IT SOUNDS PRETTY RIDDICULOUS FOR SOMEONE IN A TANK TO COMPLAIN ABOUT NOT HAVING ENOUGH OF AN ADVANTAGE! the scales are tipped Heavily in favor of the tanks.

the whole point of this topic is how unbalanced the rules are torwards tanks at some fields. So how ecactly do they have any sort of advantage whatsoever?

"you can call me a rookie if you like and youre repeated comments about "every Noob having a launcher" pretty much tells me all I need to know about your attitude. "

The "every noob on the block" comment just means everyone and his sister has a launcher nowadays. that's all

You want to limit anti tank ammo, but Im assuming you wouldnt be in favor of limiting your own ammo correct? Of course not because half the fun of being in a tank is getting to spray all the infantry with your mounted double troubles or whatever while sitting behind an invincible "bubble" .

I dont want to limit anyones ammo.I wt to have a far ratio of anti tank weapons to tanks on the field. but-----
A German tank in WW2 carried around 80 rounds of ammo depending on the model. I have no problem limiting my nerfs to 80 rounds. The average grunt carried 100 bullets give or take. limit them to that and they can limit my paintballs to 3 or 4 thousand as they did in real. But seriously limiting everyones ammo is rediculous and not enforceable

Maybe those "noobs" enjoy playing anti tank, and most have spent several hundred dollars purchasing those lauchers, or even a fair amount of man hours, and blood sweat and tears, building those launchers.

Their "several hundred dollars" is peanuts to the cost of building,transporting and arming a decent paintball tank, also as stated their "few hundred dollar investment" would be pretty useless if tanks stop going to games due to unbalanced rules. they wouldnt allow 200 tanks vs 3 launchers why allow the opposite.

Ya know something if you insist that a field limit others peoples fun, just so the game is more fun for you, then I truly hope the field owner tells you to kick rocks. There are plenty of tankers out there who wont whine about how unfair it is to have people shooting rockets at them.

I am trying to keep things constructive but you sound like your IQ is single digits.I am also not "Demanding" anything of any field.I am having a discussion on the poor tank rules due to bragging by a few anti tank guys on how they killed our tanks so bad ect I CLEARLY SAID the rules should be balanced so the game is fun and competitive for everyone. 20 LAUNCHERS AGAINST ,EACH TANK THAT ISN'T EVEN ALLOWED TO BLOW BUNKERS ,ON TOP OF 500 Grunts THROWING GRENADES AT YOU THAT DONT EVEN HAVE TO HIT ,DOESNT MAKE THINGS MUCH FUN!
Please work on your reading comprehension prior to future posting
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Last edited by BlackAngelSS : 09-27-2011 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 09-27-2011, 08:17 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackAngelSS View Post
Tank rules

Tank rules have to be balanced. If they aren't quality tankers are not going to spend the time and money to go to a field to be a nerf pinata.
Skirmish is a fun field with a very friendly staff. this isn't about hating skirmish ect.Cause they have been very good to me and my guys.
but the current tank rules are rediculous and severly unbalanced. now i am sure most of the rules are being made by people who haven't spent 5 minutes in a paintball tank and probably haven't even fired a launcher.So hopefully they will take some advice from the experts in this field and that is us the tankers nad some of the anti tank guys

Having unlimited launchers coupled with not being allowed to blow bunkers COMPLETLEY unbalances the game. I dont see why its ok for an at guy to shoot a nerf at a tank when we cant shoot at a barrel. There are so many people at these games there is bound to be a person near either. thats why we chrono our cannons , dont aim for actual human beings. Plus lets be realistic a nerf isn't exactly a shotgun slug its a 1 oz peice of soft foam. PLEANTY of field have some sort of rule where you can blow bunkers and there are no problems.

Here is what my basic rules would be like if i made them.

Limited amount of launchers- sure some people don't like this everyone wants to be a a/t guy. BOOO $%^&ing whoo. We can limit the tanks then we can limit the launchers also .no reason why anti tank guy cant be a role like sniper or spy. give out 6 pr side or something. that's more than fair. the whining a/t guys are going to really whine when there are no tanks at the game to shoot at due to unbalanced rules.

Allow tanks to blow bunkers- no it doesnt have to be unlimited amount of bunkers. maybee 5 pr insertion or something. to help give the tanks a fair chance

Frontal hits to tanks dont count (except by other tanks). Historically this is pretty accurate also. It is in place at other fields too. In WW2 there where tanks on all sides that where prettyor totally invulnerable
to handheld anti tank weapons. so this isnt a fabrication. Let the a/t guys work for there kills just like the tanks have to work to kill them things will be more balanced and more competitive.making the game fun for everyone.

Grenades- again another rule to please the crowd at the expense of the tankers. Its not like tanks are paid or even comped anything to play . We spend THOUSANDS of$$$ building,maintaining and transporting our tanks to these games. so i don't think it's too unfair to ask that we have a fair consistent(no reason to revamp the tank rules every year)set of rules to make the game better for everyone.

Every noob on the block has a launcher and wants to be an anti tank hero. Unless the rules are fair they won't have anything to shoot at

I'd also like to saythe tank refs at skirmish have been great the last few years. they give us refs that really work and know what they are doing

Have fun at Berlin. Ive been looking forward to a good tank battle game at west point for months and am going to that instead.They are pretty tank friendly there. they comp a reg and case, limit a/t players and there are few bunkers for the a/t guys to hide behind. and best of all one big highway to hell for the tanks to slug it out down. Berlin is a great game also for the grunts have a great time!

Go Deutschland!
I honestly can't disagree with any part of this, except for the Refs being good at ION- they weren't good at all this year. I have so much footage of refs missing tank calls, but I edited most of it out because it just takes away from the videos and I was yelling at the refs a lot and that also degrades the quality in the end.
The rules you laid out here are very fair, and would balance things in a good way. I would love for there to be a bunker rule- this right here is what we want to happen:
Tanks come and players get scared of them, players create an AT force to deal with tanks, tank crews come up with something to counter AT crews, etc. The POINT IS: this is real warfare taking place on a field where no one dies. THIS IS WHAT WE WANT!!!! evolution of scenario. PERIOD.
For 5 seconds, I put myself in the shoes of the tank crews. I would be pissed about the lack of bunker rules, I would be pissed about the superfluous number of launchers. I don't want an easy victory, I want something we busted our ***** to win. So lets make this happen and have the best ION ever next year. I say- either Skirmish adopts new policies for next year, or no tanks or AT go. We will STRIKE DAMNIT!! I am on board...
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