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Old 09-04-2011, 01:42 AM #106
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Originally Posted by UnXpected Killah View Post
I think KGB is onto something with the whole having nppl only have 'legit media' covering every event. im sure espn, sports illustrated, etc would be willing to come to every event for free and take up an hour or so in their tv slot or 5 pages in their magazine to try and attract the 2% of people who know what our sport is about. I'm sure they'd make more replaying last months hot dog eating contest or another time slot for sportscenter.

Don't get me wrong though. I'm all for the idea of if you think its too expensive to shoot nppl than its as simple as not going. no stress and no money out of your pocket.

I don't believe in the idea that they are 'paying' you by giving you a discount if you send them images. They make money either way, it just depends on how much. They aren't paying you by giving a discount on a number that they came up with for photo/video to pay. especially when it comes down to it like someone said, at most $1.50 for id and $8-10 for the 5 minutes the girl helps you at the booth. other than that, photo/video takes up no more of anyones time considering most of the refs hardly pay attention to id's.

I believe the nppl needs to focus more on regulating who gets onto the fields before the event rather than trying to weed out people based on how much they are willing to pay. also if the nppl wants photos for promo purposes, im sure they can afford 4-500 to a select few photographers for the weekend.


One last thing, KGB you keep saying you and the league barely turn a profit if any but tell the photo/video they need to increase their prices. Shouldn't the league and yourself charge more so you know youll be able to break even in the worst case scenario? There's obviously a reason why the league hasn't drastically increased it's prices to turn a profit. There's a flaw in the business model if you sell out for an event and barely make it out even.


Like I said dont get me wrong. I've only shot one nppl event at my own cost because I don't consider myself a professional and I don't think I'll really be out shooting on the field much. i just wanted to add my 2 cents.
I'm sure there are always places the league can run better, sure. Lots to consider: especially the economy
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:43 AM #107
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I'm not too keen on what everyone is charging but i would think 400-500 is on the high side. if someone gets paid that and still doesn't make a little profit needs to learn how to shop around. im sure if the league put up that kind of money than a fitting photog would come out of the woodwork.
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:45 AM #108
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Hey guys, good chatting with you, just want you to know I feel your plight, really do. League is working hard, I'm sure they will improve things as they march forward and always are doing. But discussion is good, constructive suggestions work much better. Peace out.
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:47 AM #109
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i honestly dont think we would even be having this conversation if the sidelines werent saturated with kids thinking theyre photographers cause they got a cool new camera for their birthday.

Step one should have been more strict regulations on photographers, and not higher prices.
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:56 AM #110
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Every photographer just add $150 to your rate for photos of NPPL teams and when they ***** you know where to send them..I can't see this lasting long, considering they didn't even have the time to word it properly or spell check.
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Old 09-04-2011, 03:58 AM #111
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NPPL = 4 the lolz

DC in '09 was awesome, looks like it'll never be that way again. That event didn't even need registration, I literally showed up and was granted full access. No fees, no BS, shot tons of pro games. I wasn't even nearly as experienced then as I am now but now I'm required to pay? bahahahahah!!!!
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Old 09-04-2011, 04:07 AM #112
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That doesn't sound very awesome..if anything that free open access is the reason why there's all this BS now.
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Old 09-04-2011, 06:03 AM #113
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Originally Posted by raehl View Post
I'm going to go ahead and say something I probably shouldn't. But it seems a reality check is warranted here.


How many of you photographers are shooting for Sports Illustrated, Fox Sports, ESPN, AP, Reuters, etc?

Or even APG or Faceful?


All of those major pro leagues ONLY issue free media passes to PRESS PHOTOGRAPHERS. If you are not shooting for a major media publication, you ARE NOT A PRESS PHOTOGRAPHER.

Let's replace NPPL in this situation with the NFL:

"Hi, I would like a media pass for the Packers game."
"Ok, which publication are you with?"
"I am from packerphotography.com. I take pictures and then sell them on my website."
...I'll let you guess what the NFL says at this point.


If you are not a press photographer, those leagues will not give you a pass at all. So, if you're REALLY suggesting that NPPL handles their media like major sports leagues do, you better get your press pass, or plan on staying home.


Here's the reality of the situation. The leagues get minimal to no value by having the vast majority of photographers there, unless they get copies of the pictures, or you're one of the handful of photographers who is taking the pictures that will end up in actual media (no, your photography website does not count.)


And dealing with photographers takes time and resources. The league would be foolish to spend their time and resources so that YOU can then sell photos. You want the league to put forth the resources for you to be there, then you pay the league. If you don't want to pay the league, then the league is better off not having you on the field at all.


Like anything in else in life, just because you want someone to pay you to do something doesn't mean someone wants to pay you to do it.


- Chris

Your reality check is based on your assumptions and not 'reality'

I currently shoot for a international newswire and have shot for numerous paintball magazines.

I shoot major sporting events as a part of my career. (Xgames, MLS, NCAA, NHRA, just to name a few) One thing I have noticed is there are there are plenty of photographers out there covering these events with little experience and are not a 'press photographer'. I have also never had to pay for parking at those events (or the actual media pass for that matter ), and have been given a nice room to relax, edit photos in with internet and power cords, a printed overview of the event, free delicious meals and drinks, and most importantly, RESPECT. For the Portland Timbers, the head of Media Relations actually is on a first name basis with all of the photographers and goes around and makes sure everyone is doing okay and asks for advice. I would love if the NPPL were to be more like those events and leagues That would be comical if the NPPL were to get into such an elitist mindset that they only want legitimate"press photographers" to shoot their events. Paintballers just want friggin photos of themselves and could care less if it was from a Sports Illustrated staff photographer or some guy from Splat Pix 69.


Photographers benefit the NPPL by providing a service to the teams that want their photos taken. How does that add no value to the league? They meet the players desires for photos taken of them. Just because they host the league, doesn't mean they are entitled to free images of their league. As someone else mentioned somewhat, this is the exact same as the NPPL going around to every single booth and asking for a box of product to print their logo on and sell to help promote their league. They might be paying more for their space at the event, but they are there to simply sell their product, where the photographer is creating something that wasn't there before, and wouldn't exist without their efforts.

Dealing with photographers may take time and resources, but if I'm not mistaken, it is a professional league and should have the staff on hand to make such things happen. Maybe a more efficient system is in order in the back end. Pinching the pennies from hard working photographers is just plain stupid.

I'm all for making sure only deserving photographers make it on the field at professional events, don't get me wrong, however I don't think this system is a good one.
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Old 09-04-2011, 01:00 PM #114
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Also note that nowhere in that new media policy does it say that jimmy cant wear shorts.

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Old 09-04-2011, 02:39 PM #115
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But duuude that's one of those sorta rules that goes without saying! Wearing shots on a beach makes you look like a god damn retard, while wearing bright orange jumpshoots makes you look legit! Don't like my attitude? I'LL FIGHT YOU!!!!!!
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Old 09-04-2011, 02:50 PM #116
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Originally Posted by p8ntcheck45 View Post
Your reality check is based on your assumptions and not 'reality'

I currently shoot for a international newswire and have shot for numerous paintball magazines.

I shoot major sporting events as a part of my career. (Xgames, MLS, NCAA, NHRA, just to name a few) One thing I have noticed is there are there are plenty of photographers out there covering these events with little experience and are not a 'press photographer'. I have also never had to pay for parking at those events (or the actual media pass for that matter ), and have been given a nice room to relax, edit photos in with internet and power cords, a printed overview of the event, free delicious meals and drinks, and most importantly, RESPECT. For the Portland Timbers, the head of Media Relations actually is on a first name basis with all of the photographers and goes around and makes sure everyone is doing okay and asks for advice. I would love if the NPPL were to be more like those events and leagues That would be comical if the NPPL were to get into such an elitist mindset that they only want legitimate"press photographers" to shoot their events. Paintballers just want friggin photos of themselves and could care less if it was from a Sports Illustrated staff photographer or some guy from Splat Pix 69.


Photographers benefit the NPPL by providing a service to the teams that want their photos taken. How does that add no value to the league? They meet the players desires for photos taken of them. Just because they host the league, doesn't mean they are entitled to free images of their league. As someone else mentioned somewhat, this is the exact same as the NPPL going around to every single booth and asking for a box of product to print their logo on and sell to help promote their league. They might be paying more for their space at the event, but they are there to simply sell their product, where the photographer is creating something that wasn't there before, and wouldn't exist without their efforts.

Dealing with photographers may take time and resources, but if I'm not mistaken, it is a professional league and should have the staff on hand to make such things happen. Maybe a more efficient system is in order in the back end. Pinching the pennies from hard working photographers is just plain stupid.

I'm all for making sure only deserving photographers make it on the field at professional events, don't get me wrong, however I don't think this system is a good one.
Well keep in mind that when you shoot major event, you don't have the players haggling to pay $50 dollar per shot to trying to get you at your minimum.

And after you shoot major event, you can sell your images to the media or franchises, they will pay you going rate, not what paintball players want to haggle you for.

Also if you are legit media shooting for media you will get access.

Also Team photographers are allowed on for $75, its there.

I think this policy revealed many more issues that just raising the price. & Submitting DVDs

1. There are way to many people in paintball selling themselves off as professional or somewhat legit business photographers(meaning your daily income comes from photographing not only paintball, but everything)

2. Too many so called photographers are charging way too little to shoot for the teams. Bringing down the value of photography.

Last edited by KGB-khrome : 09-04-2011 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 09-04-2011, 03:16 PM #117
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I think it's safe to say that Gary was not involved in this whatsoever. This is the exact opposite of any idea for media regulation that he's ever told me about.
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Old 09-04-2011, 04:12 PM #118
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I was so ready to go to the DC event and film the teams that asked me too, now with the new rules idk if i can make it out because i just dont see it possible. Sad day for me
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Old 09-04-2011, 04:33 PM #119
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It's been suggested that a "photography company" may have been involved in making this change, but it wasn't Gary.

Also, the prices photographers charge--at least the experienced ones, which I believe makes up most of those in this thread--are the equilibrium prices for the market. Teams scatter like flies if prices go practically any higher. Part of this can be blamed on GWCs shooting for free or stupid low rates, and part lies with teams not being educated in what to look for in a photographer. Usually the only thing they'll look at is cost, and lowest price wins by default. Yes, we could educate them, but it's a Sisyphean task. People love simple comparisons, especially simple numbers, and when they can simply compare x to y they'll do it. If that weren't the case, people wouldn't be buying appliances from Target.
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Old 09-04-2011, 11:22 PM #120
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for photographers covering teams(as most of us would be), they are charged $75, but are they expected to turn in a DVD, as well? there seems to be a lot of confusion around this(for me at least).
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:07 AM #121
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Main field access without DVD submission

Quote:
4. Photography Companies (non Media) WHO WILL NOT submit a DVD of images after event; new price $150. Must Register online ( send request online with company info and proof of business)
Divisional field access without DVD submission

Quote:
1. Photography Companies (non Media) Photographerss WHO WILL NOT submit DVD of images after event; new price $150. Must Register online ( send request online with company info and name of person to come)
So, any way you see it. If you dont want to give them a DVD then its $150 so might aswell get the main field access one.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:38 PM #122
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Bravo.

We all yell at a league that has given you years of free passes, and now wants help when it needs it the most.

A majority of you have been shooting paintball for sometime. Either A, talk to a reputable company that has vendor pass that, is in need, or may need, photos for their marketing campaigns… Or B, stay at home, enjoy the webcast, and make a fresh batch of Orville Redenbacher’s popcorn. (May I recommend the Caramel – It’s quite tasty)

You want everything for free. The sport is dying. Sure, I don’t agree on, nor will I, contribute my photos for free to a league to use in marketing/advertising. But I would support the small $75 charge if it really came down to it. Most of you guys hire teams to shoot at each event. Ask for more, or hire 1 more team. I’m sure that will pay for the small fee you’ll need to pay.

Lately the pro sidelines are filled with more photographers than the event has teams. It’s ridiculous. When I go out there and see Bobby-Jo-Buckles-Photography-and-Design-Studio-Creative.com out there with his Iphone 4 or Point & shoot, I literally want to kick the kid out of my way. I don’t take time off work to get paid little-to no money after travel to shoot an event, only to have someone like this stand in front of me, walk around standing up taking pictures, hell, even using flash.

I back up a majority of Chris’s comments. But I would like to hear the NPPL’s reasoning behind some of the things. Example: DVD of images.

If I was working at the NPPL, I wouldn’t want 30000 images of soft, and sometimes out of focus shots of players, but would want some of the magazine photographers 20-30 tack sharp shots… Let alone have to look through all of them for the random gem that may stand out.

I’m sure others agree with some of my statements.

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Old 09-06-2011, 04:45 PM #123
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Bravo.

We all yell at a league that has given you years of free passes, and now wants help when it needs it the most.

A majority of you have been shooting paintball for sometime. Either A, talk to a reputable company that has vendor pass that, is in need, or may need, photos for their marketing campaigns… Or B, stay at home, enjoy the webcast, and make a fresh batch of Orville Redenbacher’s popcorn. (May I recommend the Caramel – It’s quite tasty)

You want everything for free. The sport is dying. Sure, I don’t agree on, nor will I, contribute my photos for free to a league to use in marketing/advertising. But I would support the small $75 charge if it really came down to it. Most of you guys hire teams to shoot at each event. Ask for more, or hire 1 more team. I’m sure that will pay for the small fee you’ll need to pay.

Lately the pro sidelines are filled with more photographers than the event has teams. It’s ridiculous. When I go out there and see Bobby-Jo-Buckles-Photography-and-Design-Studio-Creative.com out there with his Iphone 4 or Point & shoot, I literally want to kick the kid out of my way. I don’t take time off work to get paid little-to no money after travel to shoot an event, only to have someone like this stand in front of me, walk around standing up taking pictures, hell, even using flash.

I back up a majority of Chris’s comments. But I would like to hear the NPPL’s reasoning behind some of the things. Example: DVD of images.

If I was working at the NPPL, I wouldn’t want 30000 images of soft, and sometimes out of focus shots of players, but would want some of the magazine photographers 20-30 tack sharp shots… Let alone have to look through all of them for the random gem that may stand out.

I’m sure others agree with some of my statements.

Jeff Stinson.
Stince, the cost has never been the problem for most, if not all, of us.
I think a lot of us were confused by the policy, but as i understand it now, most team photographers will have to pay the $75 charge and be exempt from submitting DVD's. i'm probably not far off when i say that most people here probably figured that the $75 fee for shooting teams would be accompanied by the submission of a DVD. for team photographers, everything should be business as usual.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:47 PM #124
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I don't mind the charge and it makes sense. Its just that they want rights to use our pictures too which is upsetting.
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Old 09-06-2011, 04:58 PM #125
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What about the $40 some people paid for for at HB?
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Old 09-07-2011, 10:03 PM #126
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I just caught back up which was a headache and a half. I'm curious tho-what is KGB-Khrome's affiliation with the league and why is he defending them to the death? Also, can someone just put a legitimate, established paintball photographer in charge write these policies/run things? Does that not make sense to anyone else? I feel like the problem is the people writing up these rules / policies have absolutely no idea what goes on behind the lens.
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