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View Poll Results: Should we raise the debt ceiling
Sure it's no big deal 16 38.10%
NO, cut the ****ing spending, we have enouh income, we simply spend to much. 26 61.90%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-20-2011, 01:11 AM #43
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Guys, didn't you hear? Spending creates long term stability and growth. Savings and investment are shams perpetuated by the rich to stay rich and make the poor poorer. Debt doesn't matter at all as long as 70+% of our gdp is spending!
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:35 AM #44
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Third, note that there is a big difference between the looming “default” in the US case and in the Greek case. With Greece, they don’t have the money or borrowing power to make good on their outstanding debt. The US government does, and it’s just a technicality that could possibly lead to a “default.” But the US has the resources to pay its debts, unlike Greece, so unlike the Greek case, where I fully expect that Greek bondholders won’t get 100% of their money back unless it comes from the Germans, even if there is a short-term disruption, everyone knows the US debts will be paid.

While I think the default story is getting more press than it deserves, I’m not upset about the Republicans attempting to get spending concessions as a part of the debt ceiling negotiations. The larger issue is that while the US is not in the same situation as Greece right now, unless the federal government enacts substantial spending cuts — and essentially, that means reform of our entitlement programs — Greece’s fate will loom in our future. And unlike Greece, Germany won’t be there to bail us out.
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:53 AM #45
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Honestly we need to decrease our spending and increase our income. It isn't that hard to figure out.
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Old 07-21-2011, 06:57 AM #46
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Old 07-21-2011, 02:20 PM #47
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Originally Posted by NEp8ntballer View Post
Honestly we need to decrease our spending and increase our income. It isn't that hard to figure out.
Uh... income isn't the problem. Federal taxes bring in enough money to pay the debt and the majority of bs government programs. You need to downgrade to rabbit ears, cut off the cell phone and get a cheap land line, and drop the broadband for dialup. Obamacare saved money, too.
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:46 PM #48
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Can someone tell me why the GOP is pushing to stop raising the debt ceiling despite voting to raise it seven times under Bush? Why the flip-flop?
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Old 07-21-2011, 03:52 PM #49
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Can someone tell me why the GOP is pushing to stop raising the debt ceiling despite voting to raise it seven times under Bush? Why the flip-flop?
I'd guess it's because they've learned their lesson.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:58 AM #50
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Maybe pull the **** out of Afghnistan and Iraq would help too. Just sayin.
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Old 07-22-2011, 01:56 PM #51
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Can someone tell me why the GOP is pushing to stop raising the debt ceiling despite voting to raise it seven times under Bush? Why the flip-flop?
Since you're suffering from a severe case of selective amnesia, let me spell it out for you:

Obama on debt ceiling in 2006:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Harry Reid on debt ceiling:
“If my Republican friends believe that increasing our debt by almost $800 billion today and more than $3 trillion over the last five years is the right thing to do, they should be upfront about it. They should explain why they think more debt is good for the economy.

How can the Republican majority in this Congress explain to their constituents that trillions of dollars in new debt is good for our economy? How can they explain that they think it’s fair to force our children, our grandchildren, our great grandchildren to finance this debt through higher taxes. That’s what it will have to be. Why is it right to increase our nation’s dependence on foreign creditors?

They should explain this. Maybe they can convince the public they’re right. I doubt it. Because most Americans know that increasing debt is the last thing we should be doing."


...The list goes on and on. In fact all of the Democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling in 2006 - which Obama later admitted was done for political purposes. Even that idiot Sheila Jackson Lee running around asking if it's because Obama is black voted against raising the debt ceiling just a few years back. Yet you want to talk about the GOP flip flopping now? Let's talk about it. The GOP has been forced (largely against it's wishes) to abandon many of their more statist ways by the insurgent tea party and as a result we have a republican party that is more conservative by a long shot than the big spending republican party of the Bush years. The debt has also exploded since this time, making the need for drastic changes all the more pronounced.

As for you last claim of the GOP trying to stop the debt ceiling from being raised, I'd like to point out that the GOP in the house are the ONLY ones who have passed a plan to raise the debt ceiling, and it was just shot down in the senate with a party line "no" dem vote. Obama also said that he would veto any plan that doesn't include tax hikes, as if tax revenue has anything to do with his massive spending problem.

In short, every claim you just made was a lie or at best boldly hypocritical and meant as a dig to republicans who are the only ones thinking seriously about the future of this countries fiscal state at the moment, and it's blatantly obvious to boot.
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Old 07-22-2011, 02:38 PM #52
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Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
Since you're suffering from a severe case of selective amnesia, let me spell it out for you:

Obama on debt ceiling in 2006:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Harry Reid on debt ceiling:
“If my Republican friends believe that increasing our debt by almost $800 billion today and more than $3 trillion over the last five years is the right thing to do, they should be upfront about it. They should explain why they think more debt is good for the economy.

How can the Republican majority in this Congress explain to their constituents that trillions of dollars in new debt is good for our economy? How can they explain that they think it’s fair to force our children, our grandchildren, our great grandchildren to finance this debt through higher taxes. That’s what it will have to be. Why is it right to increase our nation’s dependence on foreign creditors?

They should explain this. Maybe they can convince the public they’re right. I doubt it. Because most Americans know that increasing debt is the last thing we should be doing."


...The list goes on and on. In fact all of the Democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling in 2006 - which Obama later admitted was done for political purposes. Even that idiot Sheila Jackson Lee running around asking if it's because Obama is black voted against raising the debt ceiling just a few years back. Yet you want to talk about the GOP flip flopping now? Let's talk about it. The GOP has been forced (largely against it's wishes) to abandon many of their more statist ways by the insurgent tea party and as a result we have a republican party that is more conservative by a long shot than the big spending republican party of the Bush years. The debt has also exploded since this time, making the need for drastic changes all the more pronounced.

As for you last claim of the GOP trying to stop the debt ceiling from being raised, I'd like to point out that the GOP in the house are the ONLY ones who have passed a plan to raise the debt ceiling, and it was just shot down in the senate with a party line "no" dem vote. Obama also said that he would veto any plan that doesn't include tax hikes, as if tax revenue has anything to do with his massive spending problem.

In short, every claim you just made was a lie or at best boldly hypocritical and meant as a dig to republicans who are the only ones thinking seriously about the future of this countries fiscal state at the moment, and it's blatantly obvious to boot.
Wow sounds so incriminating .... until you realize that this isn't a flip-flop. Both Obama and Reid were both consistent and right to make those statements in 2006 -- the peak of the Bush boom (bubble).

It is the most basic concept of government finance that deficit spending is a tool for BAD times, while budget balancing/debt payments happen in GOOD times. Both of those statements were made in good times. Right now we are in some of the WORST times in US history.

Republicans engaged in the completely reckless practice of deficit spending in good times -- and you see the disastrous results today. And now they are up in arms about deficits during a terrible time, ensuring more disaster.

Unless we as a nation can see past these misleading rhetorical games being played, we will find ourselves in a vicious cycle downward.
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Old 07-22-2011, 06:18 PM #53
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Dr. G- we've been in a vicious downward cycle ever since we couldn't get the first constitution (the one the southern agricultural states refused to sign) that was drafted, ratified.
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Old 07-22-2011, 11:30 PM #54
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Wow sounds so incriminating .... until you realize that this isn't a flip-flop. Both Obama and Reid were both consistent and right to make those statements in 2006 -- the peak of the Bush boom (bubble).

It is the most basic concept of government finance that deficit spending is a tool for BAD times, while budget balancing/debt payments happen in GOOD times. Both of those statements were made in good times. Right now we are in some of the WORST times in US history.

Republicans engaged in the completely reckless practice of deficit spending in good times -- and you see the disastrous results today. And now they are up in arms about deficits during a terrible time, ensuring more disaster.

Unless we as a nation can see past these misleading rhetorical games being played, we will find ourselves in a vicious cycle downward.
No, it is the most basic concept of the failure that is Keynesian economics that deficit spending is for bad times. It hasn't worked, isn't working and will never work.
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:12 PM #55
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Old 07-23-2011, 12:47 PM #56
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brb gonna strawman





So, why is the GOP so reluctant to increase the debt limit if they continually agreed to its growth year after year?
LOL LIBTARDS DID THE SAME LOLOLOL I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE RELEVENT RESPONSE LOLOL
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:02 PM #57
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So, why is the GOP so reluctant to increase the debt limit if they continually agreed to its growth year after year?
LOL LIBTARDS DID THE SAME LOLOLOL I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE RELEVENT RESPONSE LOLOL
Come on now, this is so fallacious.

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Yea, the govt. is a completely unbiased source when it comes to government spending.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:05 PM #58
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Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post





So, why is the GOP so reluctant to increase the debt limit if they continually agreed to its growth year after year?
LOL LIBTARDS DID THE SAME LOLOLOL I'M NOT GOING TO MAKE RELEVENT RESPONSE LOLOL
Fail post as usual from one of the least intelligent posters on the board. The GOP did increase the debt ceiling in the house, and was only 3 votes away from doing so in the senate except for the fact that Harry Reid played some games and managed to table it.

But I'm sure as a "moderate conservative" you already knew that, stretch.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:17 PM #59
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Originally Posted by Swerve22 View Post
Since you're suffering from a severe case of selective amnesia, let me spell it out for you:

Obama on debt ceiling in 2006:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."

Harry Reid on debt ceiling:
“If my Republican friends believe that increasing our debt by almost $800 billion today and more than $3 trillion over the last five years is the right thing to do, they should be upfront about it. They should explain why they think more debt is good for the economy.

How can the Republican majority in this Congress explain to their constituents that trillions of dollars in new debt is good for our economy? How can they explain that they think it’s fair to force our children, our grandchildren, our great grandchildren to finance this debt through higher taxes. That’s what it will have to be. Why is it right to increase our nation’s dependence on foreign creditors?

They should explain this. Maybe they can convince the public they’re right. I doubt it. Because most Americans know that increasing debt is the last thing we should be doing."


...The list goes on and on. In fact all of the Democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling in 2006 - which Obama later admitted was done for political purposes. Even that idiot Sheila Jackson Lee running around asking if it's because Obama is black voted against raising the debt ceiling just a few years back. Yet you want to talk about the GOP flip flopping now? Let's talk about it. The GOP has been forced (largely against it's wishes) to abandon many of their more statist ways by the insurgent tea party and as a result we have a republican party that is more conservative by a long shot than the big spending republican party of the Bush years. The debt has also exploded since this time, making the need for drastic changes all the more pronounced.

As for you last claim of the GOP trying to stop the debt ceiling from being raised, I'd like to point out that the GOP in the house are the ONLY ones who have passed a plan to raise the debt ceiling, and it was just shot down in the senate with a party line "no" dem vote. Obama also said that he would veto any plan that doesn't include tax hikes, as if tax revenue has anything to do with his massive spending problem.

In short, every claim you just made was a lie or at best boldly hypocritical and meant as a dig to republicans who are the only ones thinking seriously about the future of this countries fiscal state at the moment, and it's blatantly obvious to boot.
First of all I haven't made any claims in this thread so I'm not sure what lies you're referencing.

I'm wondering how you can say that the Republicans are the only ones "thinking seriously" about the country's future when a downgraded credit rating would likely spell the end of American economic prosperity for a long time to come and would certainly mean that the dollar would no longer be used as a reserve currency anywhere.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:35 PM #60
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The Cut, Cap, and Balance deal was far from becoming effective law. Do you honestly think there would be any chance to make a politically motivated amendment to the Constitution in this environment? They needed something like 60 additional votes...

Hey guys, we have to get a debt deal passed within 10 days or we will be forced to default on many of our financial obligations. What can we do to give this the best possible chance to pass?
Let's hold a gun to America's head and make the most difficult huddle in American politics be a prerequisite to advance our ideologue!
Good idea!
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:54 PM #61
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The Cut, Cap, and Balance deal was far from becoming effective law. Do you honestly think there would be any chance to make a politically motivated amendment to the Constitution in this environment? They needed something like 60 additional votes...
Except that the passing of the amendment wasn't a prerequisite on the raising of the ceiling, it was only required for a vote. Like I just said, dems voted a party line "no" on the debt ceiling raise in the senate and it failed by 3 votes. The house has done it's job.

Quote:
Hey guys, we have to get a debt deal passed within 10 days or we will be forced to default on many of our financial obligations. What can we do to give this the best possible chance to pass?
Let's hold a gun to America's head and make the most difficult huddle in American politics be a prerequisite to advance our ideologue!
Good idea!
Fail straw man. What plan have the democrats come out with again? The only thing they have succeeded in doing thus far is voting for default because they didn't think the debt ceiling raise had enough new taxes with it.

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Originally Posted by inkjt510
First of all I haven't made any claims in this thread so I'm not sure what lies you're referencing.
You claimed that republicans weren't raising the debt ceiling. They tried and were blocked by Democrats in the senate.
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I'm wondering how you can say that the Republicans are the only ones "thinking seriously" about the country's future when a downgraded credit rating would likely spell the end of American economic prosperity for a long time to come and would certainly mean that the dollar would no longer be used as a reserve currency anywhere.
blah blah blah scare scare scare. Please educate yourself on the idea of default:

http://blogs.reuters.com/felix-salmo...ceiling-stays/

...and the Republicans are the only ones that are "thinking seriously" because they are:

A) The only ones that have passed a ceiling increase and,

B) The only ones that understand that we have a spending problem as opposed to a revenue problem and have attached steps towards a solution while democrats have refused anything that doesn't include their ideological goal of raising taxes on everything.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:55 PM #62
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Yea, the govt. is a completely unbiased source when it comes to government spending.
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Old 07-23-2011, 02:03 PM #63
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Except that the passing of the amendment wasn't a prerequisite on the raising of the ceiling, it was only required for a vote. Like I just said, dems voted a party line "no" on the debt ceiling raise in the senate and it failed by 3 votes. The house has done it's job.
The bill required a balanced budget amendment to be passed before the ceiling would be increased.
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