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Old 07-11-2011, 07:36 AM #43
jarude
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NPPL is run like ****, they have no clue what they're doing. /fact.

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Old 07-11-2011, 10:42 AM #44
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Pretty sure that dude has no idea what he is talking about. NPPL venues are ran very smoothly, the entry is cheaper per person, payout is higher, it rewards SKILL.. Also Huntington Beach > Texas... Chicago=Chicago, DC > JERSEY, Vegas > Airfield in FL

I've played both leagues, multiple formats, multiple divisions.. and I enjoy NPPL much more.

I wouldn't play in a league with coaching & ramping
I also pefer 7-man over glorified 5-man (Race2), its not even real x-ball anymore
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:11 PM #45
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Eh. Take away coaching and I'll be happy : )
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:29 AM #46
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this is good news. there aren't enough teams for 2 leagues.

just get rid of coaching and I will be happy regardless of the format.
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:46 AM #47
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Eh. Take away coaching and I'll be happy : )
Go play NPPL then. I'd assume the majority of the players in here are loyal NPPL players anyway, and they would rather play ball without coaching. Don't try and change the league I play in. I think the PSP is just fine HOW IT IS.
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Old 07-12-2011, 11:58 AM #48
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Go play NPPL then. I'd assume the majority of the players in here are loyal NPPL players anyway, and they would rather play ball without coaching. Don't try and change the league I play in. I think the PSP is just fine HOW IT IS.
So just because I don't like coaching means I have to put money into a league/format that I don't want to play?

You're very bright sir/mam.
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:17 PM #49
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So just because I don't like coaching means I have to put money into a league/format that I don't want to play?

You're very bright sir/mam.

it's spelled ma'am steven hawking

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Old 07-12-2011, 03:45 PM #50
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what a brilliant statement. hey do me a favor. add up all the pro teams, d1 teams, d2 teams and d3 teams from both leagues.
youll find 7 man is slowly raising while psp is slowly declining
numbers dont lie.
Not sure the numbers mean what you think they mean.

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Through two events so far in 2011 the NPPL average is 85 teams. That number is however, somewhat misleading as it is skewed by the league's best attended event, HB, and only one other event. Further suggesting the numbers will even out over the season is that while the HB turnout was up slightly (less than 10) the Chicago turnout was on par with past second events. If DC is consistent with past DC turnouts then the reasonable expectation is that 2011 will look very much like '09 & '10 before it. And in the present economic environment there are worse things than stability and/or consistency--assuming the league isn't operating in the red.
Emphasis added. Numbers may not lie, but spin certainly can. What does slight number shifts mean to the overall picture? Something? Nothing? Does it change the strain on the manufacturers supporting 8 tournaments instead of 4?
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:01 PM #51
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Not sure the numbers mean what you think they mean.

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Emphasis added. Numbers may not lie, but spin certainly can. What does slight number shifts mean to the overall picture? Something? Nothing? Does it change the strain on the manufacturers supporting 8 tournaments instead of 4?
so what if our biggest numbered event is where all of our biggest numbers come from? does that mean the nppl is not making profit on hb somehow?
and vegas is getting to be almost as big as hb.
not to mention psp is bloated with a ton of b.s. divisions: div4? race to 2 div4 and 3? i mean when it comes down to it psp and nppl are neck and neck in d3, d2, d1 and pro.
if NPPL started a nerf league where 200+ teams showed up does that mean that nppl is more successful a league than psp? more teams doesnt always mean a better league.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:54 PM #52
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Shifting goalposts.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:02 PM #53
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ok if you really feel im shifting goalposts then i will put it in a different way.

if by some miracle the next nppl event had 200+ pump teams and less than 10 teams in every other division they would blow psp out of the water. But.... i would not consider nppl the dominant league because no offense to but i dont feel pump is a legitimate competitive league.

so with this in mind if you take away the race to 2 teams and the d4 teams in psp (because as stated its not a legitimate competitive division) youre pretty much equal in teams at every event.
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Old 07-13-2011, 11:12 AM #54
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easy there sir. before you go that direction why dont you and your team try competitive pump play.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:19 PM #55
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easy there sir. before you go that direction why dont you and your team try competitive pump play.
Life is too short to play competitive pump paintball.
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Old 07-13-2011, 08:50 PM #56
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that's your opinion. all i'm saying is dont knock it till you try it.
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Old 07-17-2011, 09:45 PM #57
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You guys are comparing apples to oranges. PSP rules the the 5-man events they do it well however, NPPL rules the 7- man events. So mow that the basics are established you have to compare the pros and cons of each. When you start looking at closely there's no difference in how they are run other than field rules and process
PSP is popular because most new and existing teams struggle to find 5 committed people to play enough to play nationally. NPPL is completely different. Mostly for the reasons listed above but good teams have 10 committed people who can afford the events. Other than size and the # of people on the field that game it's self is the same. Before you say they should merge or one is better than the other play both.

Here's my thought. PSP makes everyone equal right or left handed. Most who don't like NPPL cannot shoot good with both hands.
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Old 07-23-2011, 11:32 AM #58
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I like 7-man the way it is... But I like xball too. Leave it the way it is
A merger doesnt have to mean only 1 type of paintball. I mean look at PSP alone, you have Race to 2; Race to X; and now Pump.....I dont see why adding Race to 2(7man) would affect much. Taking coaching away from PSP style formats will kill the "x-ball" mentality. Leave no coaching for just 7man.

Consolidating the events would be a big plus for players, vendors, teams. Take Chicago for example, All those vendors traveled halfway across the country to set up a 3 day event, had to pack it all up go home and then most the vendors had to make the travel back to the exact same venue to set back up for PSP... I know plenty of player/teams who did the same...

create a single paintball sport community, reguardless of what "style" of play you like. Sounds like "Win" across the boards if you ask me.....
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Old 07-23-2011, 03:26 PM #59
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A merger doesnt have to mean only 1 type of paintball. I mean look at PSP alone, you have Race to 2; Race to X; and now Pump.....I dont see why adding Race to 2(7man) would affect much. Taking coaching away from PSP style formats will kill the "x-ball" mentality. Leave no coaching for just 7man.

Consolidating the events would be a big plus for players, vendors, teams. Take Chicago for example, All those vendors traveled halfway across the country to set up a 3 day event, had to pack it all up go home and then most the vendors had to make the travel back to the exact same venue to set back up for PSP... I know plenty of player/teams who did the same...

create a single paintball sport community, reguardless of what "style" of play you like. Sounds like "Win" across the boards if you ask me.....
this.
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:34 PM #60
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Life is too short to play competitive pump paintball.
It's easy to write off the pump division as uncompetitive, until you play even a middle of the pack team and realize that they're good enough to lane players out off the break with a pump while others struggle even with ramping. You don't have to play a format you're not interested in, but at least show some respect for other players.

There's no reason to get uptight about the idea of a merger - it's quite possible to simply have an NPPL event and a PSP event on the same property without changing how either game is played. A lot of the changes could be more focused on how things work off the field - APPA registration, universal ID cards, scheduling, and general league management.

That being said, don't let yourself get worked up about how things can go wrong, or which format is better, or whether or not we should have coaching, or ramping, or any other lesser details. Be happy that the leagues may be considering a merger and moving toward a unified sport in a time when we need to work together to survive. Show respect for fellow players, appreciate what both leagues have done for us, and support them in whatever decision they make.
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Old 07-24-2011, 01:47 PM #61
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Take a look at any other sport and the number of professional leagues for each respectively. Baseball, soccer, basketball, football, extreme sports at the xgames. All of these work around one professional leagues with numerous teams or individuals competing at the top levels. Sure the xgames is a collaboration of essentially the majority of extreme sports, however this is also the most highly recognized and publicized event for these sports. Sure they all possess their own individual regional events and such, however these are not followed like the xgames. Paintball is struggling with two professional leagues, this is simple to see, look at the teams competing in each league. Having two pro leagues ultimately forces teams to pick one or the other and go with it. There are very few teams playing both formats anymore. Merging and creating one professional paintball league is the best thing this sport could do for everyone, players, league owners, manufacturers. It would save everyone money and make things much more functional for everyone. The single league would see a heavy increase in teams playing each event at every divisional level. The main logistics of it are choosing a format, do you do 7man semi no coaching, or 5man ramping with coaching? That decision is one that should be made by a committee of the league owners, professional teams, and manufacturers. Having one professional format would make life a lot easier for operating regional events as well, its obvious teams playing regional and smaller events would want to be playing the professional format, as that is most players ultimate goal. If this were truly to be successful it would incorporate the present divisional format and also include pump. If this were truly to be the next phase of professional paintball, woodsball should also be incorporated. The UWL is becoming a very successful league for players of that format. With the majority of events being based out of existing paintball complexes, I do not see this as a major issue. Ultimately, there are fanboys for psp, there are fanboys for nppl and this is not good for the sport either way you look at it. Players as a group need to realize that condensing to one league is the best bet for paintball.
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Old 07-24-2011, 05:06 PM #62
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So just because I don't like coaching means I have to put money into a league/format that I don't want to play?

You're very bright sir/mam.
Dude, what the **** are you talking about? You are making absolutely no sense. One of the unique things that makes the PSP what it is is the option to coach. I am not offering a biased perspective either, I have played and watched paintball in both leagues extensively. I have respect for both leagues and the players. The thing I like about the PSP and coaching is that it allows a very different style of gameplay and a different competitive edge to paintball that I don't feel when I play the 7 man format. As far as money goes, I feel the same way, I don't want to put money into a format that I don't want to play, but that is just the way it is and I do my part to help this sport survive. Both leagues have their own strengths and weaknesses and that is a whole different discussion. Although I have respect for everyones opinions and preferences on formats, I think some people just won't ever get it, ever. /Rant

The important thing that I feel like very few people understand is that although paintball is a very popular "extreme" sport, it will likely never be a very popular "mainstream" sport. Sure, there are huge numbers of people enjoying paintball, but the competitive tournament population is quite small. The costs of competitive tournament paintball are relatively high in comparison to a "normal" competitive sport. Tournament fees are high, continuous costs such as paint and travel are high, and being a divisional player, equipment costs are also really high. I am not saying that you have to go out and drop $1000's of dollars every year on a brand new setup, but to be competitive on a national level it is necessary to have relatively modern equipment. The cost is, and always will be the major limitation to this sport. Not to mention, society hasn't exactly been 100% accepting to the generalities of the sport, such as the fact that we are using air guns to shoot each other and the idea that it is "dangerous." In the end, I've realized as a sport, we all need to move away from the idea that paintball is going to be a top level "mainstream" competition, because it won't be. We, as a group, need to focus on advancing and keeping the sport more survivable for ourselves and doing whatever that takes. If it takes the leagues merging together so be it, but it must be done right.
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Old 07-24-2011, 06:09 PM #63
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There's no reason to get uptight about the idea of a merger - it's quite possible to simply have an NPPL event and a PSP event on the same property without changing how either game is played.
false. 16 pro teams in nppl and 10 in psp. good amount of those pro teams play both formats. how would that work?
if the merger is going to work it has to have a format change.
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