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Old 05-29-2011, 04:55 AM #22
dr.strangelove
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As stated, the law is pretty broad and imprecise. And paintball players aren't going to be enforcing it. Take the hopper and tank off of any number of paintball guns and ask a judge if it looks enough like a "handgun", as defined under California law, to fall under the purview of this law, if enacted. That's the real test. If any given judge can't tell the difference between, say, a Tec 9 (which I would presume falls within the definition of a "handgun" as its stated in the original post) and an X7 without the hopper and tank from 5 feet away, and you could end up having to comply with this law as a manufacturer or distributor. If that were to happen the cost of compliance alone would be disruptive, let alone the fact that milsim type players aren't going to want to buy a blaze orange or neon blue MP5 look-a-like for their next scenario game. Manufacturers and distributors in CA should be watching this closely.
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:18 AM #23
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Right, it's going to be such a huge problem for them to tell the difference between a T8 and an X7. Exactly like how AR-15s and 1911's are commonly confused...
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Old 05-29-2011, 05:48 AM #24
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Right, because that's totally what we're talking about. Paintball guns have fixed barrels and stocks and come in exactly one size, so it's not like they're about half the size of an AR-15. And 1911 pistols are the only firearms classified as "handguns" under California law. So you're right, it's a perfect comparison, and dealers handling hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of product definitely shouldn't seek any further clarity on the matter.
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:28 AM #25
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If anything it's going to effect the 4 pistols we have out, it's not going to effect any other markers, they said "appears to be a handgun" so basicly any marker that isn't mag fed, wont be a handgun. Also what if some criminal paints his glock white? Or any of those damn colors?
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Old 05-29-2011, 06:46 AM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesrules89 View Post
Existing law further
defines a handgun to be a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of
being concealed upon the person.
"Handgun" in your mind and "handgun" in terms of the law may be two completely different things. It's a little bit more broadly defined than simply "pistol".

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesrules89 View Post
so substantially similar in coloration
and overall appearance to an existing firearm as to lead a reasonable
person to perceive that the device is a firearm
And further defining "handgun" as:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamesrules89 View Post
Existing law further
defines a handgun to be a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable of
being concealed upon the person.
Creates a standard that's more than a little bit dependent upon who the "reasonable person" making the judgment is. Personally, if I were one of the dealers handling hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of merchandise or one the manufacturers selling it to them, I would seek legal advice outside of a paintball forum before blowing off a law like this. It could potentially have unforeseen or unintended consequences for paintball in the future in California. Airsoft enthusiasts are probably really pissed
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:02 AM #27
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The focus should be on the government taking away rights little by little, not whether it will affect your specific marker in your state at this time.

It only takes one instance of a bill slipping through before it leads to it affecting everyone. Example:

A few years ago their was a radio program that read stories over the air for the blind to enjoy. One of the listeners decided she didn't approve of one the stories on a given day and called the station and complained. Needless to say she ended up getting the whole program cancelled.

Btw the listener wasn't even blind.

This is a very similar situation where someone outside of the sport could decide its future, even though it won't really affect them as it would us.
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:21 AM #28
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I sympathize with players in Cali who are affected by this. Honestly, that state needs to get it's priorities is order...
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Old 05-29-2011, 11:44 AM #29
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I don't see the point of this.
What is to stop criminals from just painting their real guns bright pink, so that when an officer sees one, hes just like "oh its a bb gun, no biggy. *bang!* wow that bb really hurts."
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:33 PM #30
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If this passes will this be like the assault rifle ban, where if you bought the guns before the law it would still be legal to own. I was thinking of stocking up on some x7s and rap4 stuff.
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Old 05-29-2011, 03:02 PM #31
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good for them i guess. i dont get the whole milsim thing anyways. didnt need all this gear in the 90's when i played scenario and big games.
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Old 05-29-2011, 03:28 PM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
That could potentially have implications for, say, a Tippmann X7 Phenom with a 14" barrel. Way bigger potential problem for the milsim crowd where realism is the name of the game.
not to mention how many of the guns are made where, and imported, through California.

so if this affects imports that are going through California, the the rest of the country is boned as well.
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Old 05-29-2011, 07:56 PM #33
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Well California people should fix their thing in California, they really are the only state with a bunch of naysay hippies trying to ban paintball, hell telling someone I played paintball here in Texas almost got me a job. I'm not trying to say "oh California paintball doesn't matter" what I'm trying to say is there isn't much we non-californians can do, vote someone out of office, or call someone up, the problem is nobody does anything but sit on their computer and whine.
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Old 05-29-2011, 08:02 PM #34
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Bottomline:
Members of the paintball community from California should call/e-mail, send letter to - their representative explaining why this law should be at minimum clarified.
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:22 PM #35
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Listen, those of you arguing the pistol point of the bill are missing the bigger picture."Barrel less than X inches in length" leaves the door open for further adjustments to the bill. It has not passed yet and may be further amended. And just because you may play speedball where markers tend to look less realistic doesn't mean us milsim players don't need your help. Was this game not born in the woods? Are we not all brothers and sisters in this sport regardless of our playing style or preference? And the biggest aspect of all is this... all a gunman intent on wreaking havoc would have to do (if this bill were to be passed) is paint their gun some ridiculous color and no one would ask questions until the real bullets started flying. The markers are not the issue. The intent of the person using them is. People have been shot for pulling out their cell phones in an aggressive manner. Please, everyone, go to Change.org and sign the petition to stop this ridiculous bill and the heavy foot of government.
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:35 PM #36
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oh no slippery slopes! whatever are we to do?.... doesnt affect paintball guns, wont affect paintball guns, doesnt stop anyone from using anything ... they just have to color it differently so cops dont shooot kids... why are we talking about this?
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Old 05-29-2011, 09:45 PM #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky6987 View Post
good for them i guess. i dont get the whole milsim thing anyways. didnt need all this gear in the 90's when i played scenario and big games.
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:02 PM #38
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Quote:
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doesnt affect paintball guns
May not affect the paintball gun you shoot, but definitely affects paintball guns more broadly. 100% affects pistol-style guns at the very least, and quite possibly others depending on how the statute is read and enforced. Manufacturers and distributors who may have to disrupt their entire supply chain sending new guns into the blaze orange tank at the anodizer and then try to sell neon guns to milsim players would probably beg to differ with you, despite the epidemic of cops showing up at paintball fields and blowing away kids with TP7 pistols and Tippmann A5s. Since this is pending legislation that is up for a vote, it probably wouldn't hurt to take a serious look at it if you live in the state of California.
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Old 05-29-2011, 10:07 PM #39
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Quote:
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oh no slippery slopes! whatever are we to do?.... doesnt affect paintball guns, wont affect paintball guns, doesnt stop anyone from using anything ... they just have to color it differently so cops dont shooot kids... why are we talking about this?
1) it does affect paintballers. read the bill.
2) I shouldn't have to rock a hot pink (or blue, purple, lime green, etc) marker because some 13 year old wants to flex his nuts.
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Old 05-30-2011, 08:41 AM #40
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Our country is falling apart! This is stupid! I love my guns plain and simple and no one is gonna take them from me! Rise aginist this tyrant goverment!
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Old 05-30-2011, 09:18 AM #41
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Quote:
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First thing I thought of right here, bravo sir.

Honestly not sure how I feel about this, it could be significant, but it also could be a big, fat nothing.

It would seem the intent is to protect people and law enforcement from each other in situations where these devices are in play and there could be confusion. I would like to think though, that in many of the situations in which police and paintball players or airsoft-ers might interact, that the differences would present themselves before there was any need for either side to make a snap-judgement about the other's intentions.

There was a big hullaballo about a law somewhat similar to this a few years ago affecting the transport of paintball markers with tanks and loaders on them...many of the arguments were similar to the ones being made here. After pages of debate (and I use the term lightly) it was determined that if you carried your marker, tank, and loader separately inside your gearbag or the trunk of your car there was nothing to worry about.

It would seem at least, that if you are using your gear "as directed" that this would be a similar case. Whether that is the intent or the fact of the matter will remain to be seen.
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Old 05-30-2011, 10:56 AM #42
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If the law goes through and it's anything like the law in Canada (which does not include paintball markers) But all airsoft or soft air guns must have clear bodies (smoked is fine too) This is what is likely to happen they will not have different colors painted but more likely make the lower receiver smoked or the whole marker smoked in color or clear.
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