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Old 04-19-2011, 07:39 AM #85
raehl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealtorTommy View Post
I'm interested if Chris kept the team's money.
A $1900 entry fee was originally paid. A schedule including USF was created. Generally, once there is a schedule, there are no refunds on entry fees, as a team withdrawing from the tournament at that point greatly inconveniences all of the other teams, which is not fair to them.

On Thursday, when we became aware of the issues with player eligibility for some members of the team, despite the fact that we had already posted the game matchups, NCPA offered a full refund if USF chose not to compete, and a refund of the difference between the Class A and Class AA entry fee if they would rather move to Class AA (which is easier to play if you only have eligible 5-6 players.) Mike Phillips stated that the team would like to move to AA.

I thus had to remove USF from the existing Class A schedule and redo it from scratch, a process which took a couple hours due to the unique needs of making sure no team plays another team from their conference AND making sure all teams get a match on the webcast. Because we had to redo the schedule to accommodate USF, we were not able to release a Class A schedule until about 10 PM on Thursday, greatly inconveniencing the other 18 teams in the tournament.

Remember, this is the night before the tournament starts, 3 days after the final registration deadline, and after an event schedule has already been released. No team in this situation is entitled to a refund.

On Friday, we released the Class AA schedule with USF in it. Note that while no team is entitled to choose when their games will be played, Mike Phillips had asked that the team be scheduled in the afternoon session instead of the morning session as some of their players had morning classes. I made sure they were in the afternoon bracket as requested, with games starting at 1 PM.

On Saturday morning, when USF finalized their roster, we noticed that two players whose eligibility was strongly in doubt were still listed on the roster. We again reminded the team of the eligibility rules, and the consequences of playing with ineligible players. The team had checked in with 9 players and when asked had said all 9 met the requirements to either be full-time students or use an exception (basically, are part-time this semester but were full-time last semester, with some additional qualifications that all players met.) Even discounting the 2 players we strongly suspected were not eligible, we believed the team would still have well more than 5 players able to play, and simply expected the team to remove the ineligible players from their roster.

The tournament started at 8 AM. USF's first games were scheduled to start at 1 PM.

At somewhere between noon and 1 PM, but likely closer to 1 PM, USF informed one of our staff that they would not be playing. When I learned of this decision, at about 1:25 PM, I immediately called the contact number listed for the USF team and made clear that while there would be no refund for a team that simply didn't show up to play, I was more than happy to postpone USF's games so they could play them and not lose their entry fee. USF declined to do so, and the same player who on Thursday had insisted to me that he had been a full time student the previous semester admitted that he had lied at that time and was not.


We have already refunded the entry fee difference between the Class A and Class AA entry fee. I don't see any reason the team is entitled to a refund of the Class AA entry fee - they were put in the schedule, given every opportunity possible to play, and forfeited their games, greatly inconveniencing their scheduled opponents. No tournament league would refund an entry fee in these circumstances.


I have not yet made a final decision as to whether any extenuating circumstances exist in this situation, including the possibility that at least one player deceived his team and the league and put them in an impossible situation not of their own making.

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Last edited by raehl : 04-20-2011 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:48 AM #86
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of course he kept their ****ing money. you dont know **** about chris do you?

im suspended from paintball tournaments? really buddy? you just keep making yourself out to look like a bigger and bigger JOKE.

and if you say you didnt know USF planned on playing in this tournament, you're a ****ing liar. teams pay HOW MUCH money to play in this tournament? and you dont know HOW MANY teams are registered or have PAID YOU?!

chris, please stop your half-*** bull**** of a job at ncpa, and let someone who is REALLY going to run this organization right, do it.

you suck. sorry man, truth hurts.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:24 AM #87
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This whole thing is really shady to me, something isn't adding up.
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:52 AM #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushyman06 View Post
of course he kept their ****ing money. you dont know **** about chris do you?

im suspended from paintball tournaments? really buddy? you just keep making yourself out to look like a bigger and bigger JOKE.

and if you say you didnt know USF planned on playing in this tournament, you're a ****ing liar. teams pay HOW MUCH money to play in this tournament? and you dont know HOW MANY teams are registered or have PAID YOU?!

chris, please stop your half-*** bull**** of a job at ncpa, and let someone who is REALLY going to run this organization right, do it.

you suck. sorry man, truth hurts.
You really don't understand the amount of time and effort that Chris puts into the NCPA. Nationals was extremely well run and with the exception of this stupid USF fiasco, do you hear anyone complaining? I'm really not sure why you expect Chris and his staff to do background checks on every single player from every single school, many of which have different standards for their full time students. The NCPA works to accommodate and extenuating circumstances, but you must seek them out to do so. Tell my why it is a problem for each team to have a little bit of responsibility by confirming their eligibility...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdlarson11 View Post
This whole thing is really shady to me, something isn't adding up.
What isn't adding up?
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Old 04-19-2011, 08:58 AM #89
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Well I never played tournament events. I like other types of play. But now this has come to my attention I'm interested in the rules and going-ons.

One out of state team member posted:

ALSO, you were supposed to pay 100 bucks if you didnt have matching jersey or A NEWSPAPER article written about our club.

Is that true?



Is it true there is a rule that if you don't stay in a motel/hotel you have to pay $200.00 to NCPA as stated by another team?
I see this as a burden to local teams attending.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:22 AM #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealtorTommy View Post
Well I never played tournament events. I like other types of play. But now this has come to my attention I'm interested in the rules and going-ons.

One out of state team member posted:

ALSO, you were supposed to pay 100 bucks if you didnt have matching jersey or A NEWSPAPER article written about our club.

Is that true?



Is it true there is a rule that if you don't stay in a motel/hotel you have to pay $200.00 to NCPA as stated by another team?
I see this as a burden to local teams attending.
Don't forget the $100 fee to the NCPA in order to pick up paint you had sent to CFP.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:33 AM #91
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Chris,

After our conversation last night, I was hoping to wake up this morning to find this thread handled so we can stop the flame wars and off-handed comments by people who have limited, skewed, or speculative info on the actual dealing between the NCPA and USF.
At this point, the whole thread just needs to come down because it's gone way out of control. USF will still be supplying the agreed upon information that was discussed yesterday and we have no changed our position of working with, not against, the sport and the NCPA to solve this problem.

There isn't any reason for people to defend our organization though it is flattering. There isn't any reason to defend the NCPA because USF is not attacking them.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:36 AM #92
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This whole thing strikes me as an issue where common sense should and could have been deployed but a muddled personal history between Mike and event promoters turned everything into one pointless cluster****.
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Old 04-19-2011, 09:50 AM #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerbel View Post
There isn't any reason for people to defend our organization though it is flattering. There isn't any reason to defend the NCPA because USF is not attacking them.
True. This thread has turned into trolls trying to create controversy. Hopefully it will get locked soon.
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Old 04-19-2011, 10:00 AM #94
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doesn't need to be locked... It needs to be removed.

Please remember, as a representative of a University or other large entity, that school or entity can take actions against the players or club to make sure that situations like this never happen again. Reputations come with a cost...

I don't want that for my players, the club, or the league.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:07 PM #95
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Please close this thread. For the good of a league i hope to play in and for the good of the USF paintball club. I am the student director at my highschool radio station. We attended an awards ceremony this past fall and I choose to provide the opportunity to all staff interested in attending not just our management board (how it was in the past). Both are all students not paid school employee. Some of our staff got out of hand. I asked them to please leave the event cause they were making a bad mark for our station. They refused and proceed. The organizer called security and had everyone minus me and the faculty advisor leave the banquet hall. The school paper was there to cover the event and happened to see 20 or so staff and management getting escorted to the buses and sent off the grounds. obviously our School got word I now have spent most of the past school year fighting the school board (legal of owner of our boardcast license). Thankfully our community supported us and prevented our closure. My point is that this kinda of stuff gets you in trouble with your administration and can lead to club closures VERY QUICKLY. I have watched our football soccer and lacrosse programs (All much more recognized sports than paintball) be stopped and ended in the middle of the seasons due team actions. This thread could easily come up in an administration google search. schools are ALWAYS looking for any thing that can negatively reflect on the school as whole. So I plead please close this thread. please delete this thread for the good of the NCPA, USF paintball, and college paintball as a whole.

Last edited by pballer8793 : 04-19-2011 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:32 PM #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealtorTommy View Post
ALSO, you were supposed to pay 100 bucks if you didnt have matching jersey or A NEWSPAPER article written about our club.

Is that true?

Is it true there is a rule that if you don't stay in a motel/hotel you have to pay $200.00 to NCPA as stated by another team?
I see this as a burden to local teams attending.
We structure our Class AA National Championship entry fee to encourage teams to do things to help the league function better and promote the sport. The entry fee this year was $930, but you get get up to $300 off by:

$100 - complete your online profiles with picture and player information.
$100 - Have jerseys that meet the NCPA jersey guidelines (see: http://www.college-paintball.com/col...erseyreqs.html )
$100 - Have an article published in your school newspaper about your team that mentions the National Championship event.

I don't think anyone in the history of the NCPA has ever not received the $100 off for the online profiles as if you don't have it done, we just send you to the computer to do it. The vast majority of schools get the $100 off for the newspaper article, and it is fully refundable - so if you get an article published after the event, you get your $100 back. The jersey fee is not refundable, although usually if you have some evidence that you were supposed to receive jerseys prior to the event and didn't due to something outside your control we let that slide (i.e. you already paid for them).

For Class A, where you may be playing on television, the online profiles and jerseys are required. Since most teams pay season entry fees, we do not require the newspaper article, although most of the Class A teams do that anyway for their own recruitment/publicity purposes.

None of these requirements is particularly onerous and are things we expect all of our teams, as ambassadors of the sport, to do anyway. But if they can't/don't want to, we give them the option of buying out of the requirement with $100.


We have, in the past, given $100 off the entry fee (which was $100 higher) if teams stayed in sanctioned hotels. This serves two purposes - documenting our impact on the local economy to help us secure funding for the event from the local sports marketing or convention and visitors bureau, and supplying the league with additional revenue from the room rates.

This year, after consulting with our members (the teams), we decided to just bump the entry fee $30 and do away with the hotel requirement, as the teams valued the flexibility more than the $30.


I think most people would consider these not only reasonable but very good policies, and we have had them for several years.


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Old 04-19-2011, 05:15 PM #97
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As a president of an organization, no matter how large or small, it is your responsibility to make sure every competator is eligible BEFORE you take such a large sum of money.

You need to write a single rule book that list every rule that you are attempting to enforce.

Players need ONE official rule book that can be easily viewed by all potential players.

The NCPA rules are looped between your website, PBN, and the uncomplete rule book.

You cannot simply expect them to know every rule when they are not written in an easily viewable fashion. Not all players have the time to follow you around and make sure that your arent adding unofficial rules to the book.

Your word does not substitute the written words. The NCPA has the potential to be a great thing in the world of paintball, but no one has the right to question the intentions of Mike Phillips or USF as a whole.

Your the man I question the intentions of Mr. Raehl.
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Old 04-19-2011, 05:27 PM #98
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Stop Posting Here </thread>
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Old 04-19-2011, 06:30 PM #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sagestylerpb View Post
As a president of an organization, no matter how large or small, it is your responsibility to make sure every competator is eligible BEFORE you take such a large sum of money.
How are we supposed to do that? Require everyone to mail in transcripts BEFORE they can pay their entry fee? That's simply not practical. Conversely, each team has immediate access to the current full-time status information for their players, and can readily determine before choosing to pay the entry fee if their players are eligible.

Quote:
You need to write a single rule book that list every rule that you are attempting to enforce.
We have one. It says you have to be a full time student to play. It says you MAY also be eligible if you are a graduating senior AND receive advance approval from the NCPA President. Note that is not a guarantee you can play - you could be a graduating senior and NOT receive approval.

Quote:
Players need ONE official rule book that can be easily viewed by all potential players.
Quote:
The NCPA rules are looped between your website, PBN, and the uncomplete rule book.
They are all the same, except for the recent update that allows additional flexibility with regards to exceptions which is currently only in a PbN post announcing it and an email we sent out to all of our players. That would not seem to be relevant here, however, as it still says advance approval is required, and even if you never saw it, you would still not be arriving at a tournament with ineligible players if you had read the eligibility rules in any of the other locations.

Quote:
You cannot simply expect them to know every rule when they are not written in an easily viewable fashion. Not all players have the time to follow you around and make sure that your arent adding unofficial rules to the book.
Indeed not, and there is no need to. Although additional explanation is available elsewhere, all necessary information is in the NCPA rule book.


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Old 04-19-2011, 06:31 PM #100
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Thread closed at the request of the USF coach.

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