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Old 04-18-2011, 10:08 PM #64
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It's not the NCPA's fault if incorrect information is being relayed back and forth, as well as with how the appa is setup how are they supposed to know exactly who is playing until tounament time.I feel bad for USF but this is getting blown out of proportion.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:12 PM #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texaspaintballplpaye View Post
And if you've read the thread, exceptions are made to those graduate level students who are not taking 12 or more hours to be a full time student.
really why was the exception not made for the grad student on usf? YOU would have know that if you would have read the post right before yours.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:13 PM #66
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Originally Posted by yuik View Post
I don't get it were they sponsored by virtue or somewhere Pbnation doesn't like ? And I thought empire and dye sponsored ncpa nationals not Pbnation
I'm pretty sure tech pb mike was rostered for usf.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:16 PM #67
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Originally Posted by pyromaniacs1 View Post
I'm pretty sure tech pb mike was rostered for usf.
yes your correct this is the first event Mike from Tech pb has played with USF and this is also the only event they have gotten pulled from...
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:23 PM #68
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This is just sad.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:24 PM #69
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I don't get it were they sponsored by virtue or someone Pbnation doesn't like ? And I thought empire and dye sponsored ncpa nationals not Pbnation
They don't like Mike Phillips. The guy who runs the "other site". So they targeted USF and told them they couldn't play because he and a few other guys were illegal players.

If Mike didn't play for USF they would have never checked USF for illegal players. turns out USF had a few players that weren't qualified for playing, it was all a mistake caused by misinterpreting the rules.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:26 PM #70
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Checking for enrollment is a little more relaxed at the region events and they have only played one that I can find, which was at CFP earlier this year.

It's not like it isn't possible they fielded ineligible players at that event.

While it is possible, I sort of doubt Chris would not allow someone to play based off of what paintball site they frequent; avoiding unneeded hoopla (even more than what has happened already) is probably in the best interest of everyone, but I'm more than definite people will believe that's the cause of it.


Let it be known that I'm not taking sides here. I'm just following what the rules say, and having ineligible players means they can't play. It's pretty simple, actually.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:27 PM #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CON*RAD View Post
They don't like Mike Phillips. The guy who runs the "other site". So they targeted USF and told them they couldn't play because he and a few other guys were illegal players.

If Mike didn't play for USF they would have never checked USF for illegal players. turns out USF had a few players that weren't qualified for playing, it was all a mistake caused by misinterpreting the rules.
was about to say this but didnt wanna get banned
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:28 PM #72
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So you will cheat unless someone else stops you?

You're now suspended from paintball tournaments.

Always happy to do my job.

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Your an ***. You make the NCPA, the appa and anything else you put your name on look bad.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:32 PM #73
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Also, I was wondering how often does this happen each year or how many other teams get bumped down from A to AA for illegal players at nationals after no problems the entire season? This cant possibly be the first time that it has actually happened to a team or is it?

chris can you please inform me if you are allowed to disclose that information. I dont need specific teams to save face for them but just to know that teams have shown up and gotten booted for illegal players with threats of suspensions.

I'm not trying to be a dick so if i come off that way, I apologize but paintball during college is such a hard thing to pull off as you probably know. Raising money to fund a team takes alot of work and to just show up and not be allowed to play with no leniency at all is kind of rough. NCPA is not like the NCAA where you let USF play and you potentially wreck draft positions. You let them play and another team gets the fun and experiences that come with the tournament. I feel bad for the players but more so the seniors who will not have another chance to play with their teamates for their school.
And i really do hope this had absolutely nothing to do with a particular player and his website. If anyone is willing to sabotage the experience of others to play paintball for something as insignificant as that... then it would be a cancer to the sport. But I have faith that no one in the entire community of paintball would ever be so destructive and spiteful.

I'll conclude with this... Everyone take note and learn from this experience. USF is a perfect example that you need to follow the rules to a T. IF you have any questions at all, make sure you contact someone immediately and if you have to do it a million times, then do it because at the end of the day, do you want to be the guys on the sidelines or on the field.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:32 PM #74
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Originally Posted by raehl View Post
At no time did the NCPA tell the USF team that they could not play. Not once. Ever.

We did tell the USF team that if they were caught cheating by playing with players who were not eligible to play that we would suspend the whole team.

The team ultimately chose not to compete.


Edit: After receiving additional information, it appears some member(s) of the team may not have fully conveyed accurate information to other team members or to the NCPA. I don't want to apply a label to the entire team when it is possible some or many of the team members were put in a bad situation by someone else.


- Chris
I think that it speaks a lot about your character that you come back and admit that it was just a member(s) and not the whole team who are to blame. It would have been very easy for you to just let the blame fall on the whole team and be done with it. From what I've read here and on another site, it seems some people didn't read the rules completely and then expected to have an exception made for something that was entirely their fault. I kind of expected to hear the whole "it's not my fault, they're out to get me" from this guy and sorry to say I have not been disappointed.
I thought you all put on a great tourney and I am grateful I was able to watch all the webcasts. All of the guys I know that watched said it just made them want to get out and play more. Sorry for stirring the pot with my original post.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:34 PM #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
So you will cheat unless someone else stops you?

You're now suspended from paintball tournaments.

Always happy to do my job.

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The Police don't expect the criminals to arrest themselves...



This whole thing is just a mass of miscommunication on both sides that is getting blown up based on whose team is involved.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:37 PM #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CON*RAD View Post
They don't like Mike Phillips. The guy who runs the "other site". So they targeted USF and told them they couldn't play because he and a few other guys were illegal players.

If Mike didn't play for USF they would have never checked USF for illegal players. turns out USF had a few players that weren't qualified for playing, it was all a mistake caused by misinterpreting the rules.
Thanks for clearing that up .

I'll be a full time grad student in august and already contacted the Ncpa team , about playing A , so this thread kind of worried me .

I think I shouldn't run into any problems though .


It's still a shame that the other kids couldn't play . I personally would have wanted to do AA with 4 guys .
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:38 PM #77
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Mike is now selling his jersey on marker bids (good job pbnation you even added marker bids to your censory)

way to go ncpa you rock
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:56 PM #78
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Mike is now selling his jersey on marker bids (good job pbnation you even added marker bids to your censory)

way to go ncpa you rock
Thats kinda sad.

But I'm not surprised to see this happen at all.
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:50 PM #79
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As per the multiple comments about USF's "appearance" at the NCPA Championships this past weekend, please read the following:

USF registered for Class A play and, due to 4 of the players eligibility issues, the team was bumped down to class AA.
The 4 players in question are as follows:
2 players with 6-9hrs for Spring that are graduating in the Summer. These students were not able to take the summer courses during the Spring. Because of USF's class offerings drying up due to big budget cuts, The only way for them to maintain a full-time (12 hr) semester would mean paying for an extra 3-6 hrs that do nothing but cost time+money that most people in this economy don't currently possess.
1 player was graduating in the summer as well. This player was enrolled in 9hrs of Masters level classes which would not be a problem for eligibility.
The last player was @ 10hrs after dropping a course.

Out of the 4 in question, only 1 was actually ineligible without extenuating circumstances because of the Prior semester's enrollment status.

I find it hard to believe that many teams did not get exceptions for Summer graduates playing the tournament since there are "supposedly" players getting clearance to participate after graduating in the Fall of the same academic calendar.

As the team checked in on Thursday, they brought the proper forms and the 4 players in question also brought a letter explaining their cases as per:

2.1.1.4. Have an exception from the NCPA President or CEO. Exemptions may be granted under certain circumstances, including

After the papers were turned in, they were told something to the affect of " waivers must be turned in prior to the event and they were not going to grant waivers to them at check-in".

At this point, players may use their "lifetime" exception which wasn't "unofficially" added to the rules until 02-16-2011, 09:19 PM.
This option was NOT offered to our team until we were already dropped into Class AA and I started working with Chris and his staff personally to make sure that no violations were taking place before USF would take the field.

link to "unofficial rule addition/change": http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...+eligibilit y

At this point, 2 out of 4 players were given the options to use this method to compete ONLY in the class AA division. The statements that were given about "checking on the players eligibility to legally use this method would be checked the following work week and anything wrong with it would end with a full club suspension."
This comment was made clear and taken very seriously by both players. They needed to know, and be able to prove that they could meet ALL of these requirements:

- You've already played in the NCPA.
- You're playing on the same team you played on the last time
- You're enrolled in a degree program (you're admitted as a student, not just taking some classes)
- You have at least two full-time semesters at the school you're playing for (sorry, no Freshmen. That's also two semesters where the student was full-time, not two full-time semesters worth of credit.)
- You were enrolled full-time the previous semester (or on Co-Op or active duty or some such.)

You can begin to understand the choices facing players and why they decided not to risk the club with the vagueness of how "having 2 full-time semesters" yields difference in interpretation (enrollment/credit completion), the players not wanting to make a mistake that would put the club in jeopardy, and burning a one-use exception for Class AA play instead of A.

With all of this, there is, and never was any problem with the actual rules as we read prior to check in on Thursday. Things happen and sometimes people just don't think. It doesn't mean anything more than a mistake was made. All of the efforts made to adhere to the rules, as stated to us, where not officially written in the posted rules PDF, should have been more than ample to provide proof to show our desire for full compliance.

In almost 20 years in this sport, I have yet to see a team have to go through anything close to what this team dealt with only to be left with the choice of playing Class AA with ONLY 4 players or leaving the event and forfiting Class AA entrance fees after being told, you will have your money returned to the CC that was used to purchase it.
What happened was handled poorly and it reflects negativly upon our sport.

There isn't any need for further comments concering USF's organization and this situation by anyone.
This was posted by our coach.

As far as the rules per eligibility, it was a mistake on both parties so there is no one to blame. The pdf with the rules needs to be updated with what ever changes have been decided. No other league has problems where you have to search multiple places to find out an answer. There is a rule book for a reason. And I, as President was at fault for not handling the enrollment verification sooner and getting a clear and precise answer prior to showing up to registration on Thursday.

USF is not backed by any major company or business in the paintball industry. Mike Phillips happens to be a USF student getting a masters degree, and therefore in his graduating semester we were under the impression that he could play. A simple mistake.

Honestly, playing Paintball in college is pretty freaking cool when you think about it. I know I definitely applied to a couple of schools (UConn, purdue, UF....) just so I could keep playing throughout college. This thread is doing nothing to help the NCPA, USF, the sport of Paintball, or anyone for that matter. its childish to be arguing over something like this.

I must personally ask that this thread stop being posted on as a favor to both myself as President, Team Captain, and representing USF as a whole.
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Old 04-18-2011, 11:56 PM #80
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Old 04-19-2011, 12:20 AM #81
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Old 04-19-2011, 04:31 AM #82
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I'm sure the management knew they were going to pull USF from the start,
NCPA did *NOT* pull USF from the tournament. NCPA informed USF of the eligibility rules very clearly posted on our webste and that playing with ineligible players would result in a suspension. USF decided not to play their games.

Again, at NO TIME did NCPA *EVER* tell USF that they could not play. We only explained to them the eligibility rules that are very clearly posted on our website after, at check-in, they presented transcripts from their university registrar which indicated that they were not eligible to play.

For the record, I had no idea anyone in particular was coming to play for USF until the guy who handles player eligibility for us at registration (a government lawyer from DC who could care less about anything other than players being eligible) brought me the transcripts that said that the players were part-time students (not eligible).


The members of the team were offered the same opportunity for exceptions as all NCPA players. At least one player in particular lied to me about their status, and later in the weekend admitted that he actually was not a full-time student the previous semester as he had previously stated, and the official document provided by his school (in the form of a sealed envelope from the school's registrar opened by our staff at check-in) said that he was a part-time student this semester as well.


You simply are not able to play NCPA if you have not been a full-time student either of the current or preceding semesters, and generally not allowed to play if you are not a current full time student.



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Old 04-19-2011, 06:18 AM #83
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I don't get it were they sponsored by virtue or somewhere Pbnation doesn't like ? And I thought empire and dye sponsored ncpa nationals not Pbnation
USF is a ****** team. no it wasn't a cuss word. It's the name of a website and we all know which website it is.
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Old 04-19-2011, 07:15 AM #84
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USF is a ****** team. no it wasn't a cuss word. It's the name of a website and we all know which website it is.
You are incorrect.



I'm interested if Chris kept the team's money.
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