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Old 04-18-2011, 02:21 PM #43
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From what I've read above, it seems like the rules really apply to certain teams on a case by case basis.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:01 PM #44
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maybe Chris Raehl doesn't need any more work than he already does... I'm sorry but if you do not know 100% if you are a full time student or not, then YOU personally can ask/e-mail Chris and I'm sure he could clarify that for you. I'm not sure any other of the 60 or so schools there had a problem with the interpretation of the rule...
Really he is trying to run a College only event and you are telling me he dose not have time to screen the players. What a joke, you think that NCAA screens the player that play in it leagues. Because well if it was a proper college event all that it would take for him to get this information is by having each team send him a transcript (from what i hear the players already do this) and a quick look will tell if they are full time. And just to let every one know that there is many different way to be a full time student, every university has different criteria. Some accept work study as full time, different majors, Undergrad, grad all have different requirements.
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Old 04-18-2011, 03:59 PM #45
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As long as the student is a student at a college or university they should be allowed to play. This will help grow the league and the sport of paintball. I know some people will say,"What keeps a school from enrolling a pro as a student in one class and calling them a part-time student?" Make sure there are rules to prevent this.

I love this sport, it is my passion. I started a paintball club at the college I went to. I have seen the club grow and hope one day it will compete in the NCPA someday. But if things happen were a team can't play because of a shady rule or whatever, then I don't want them to be a part of that.
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:04 PM #46
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As per the multiple comments about USF's "appearance" at the NCPA Championships this past weekend, please read the following:

USF registered for Class A play and, due to 4 of the players eligibility issues, the team was bumped down to class AA.
The 4 players in question are as follows:
2 players with 6-9hrs for Spring that are graduating in the Summer. These students were not able to take the summer courses during the Spring. Because of USF's class offerings drying up due to big budget cuts, The only way for them to maintain a full-time (12 hr) semester would mean paying for an extra 3-6 hrs that do nothing but cost time+money that most people in this economy don't currently possess.
1 player was graduating in the summer as well. This player was enrolled in 9hrs of Masters level classes which would not be a problem for eligibility.
The last player was @ 10hrs after dropping a course.

Out of the 4 in question, only 1 was actually ineligible without extenuating circumstances because of the Prior semester's enrollment status.

I find it hard to believe that many teams did not get exceptions for Summer graduates playing the tournament since there are "supposedly" players getting clearance to participate after graduating in the Fall of the same academic calendar.

As the team checked in on Thursday, they brought the proper forms and the 4 players in question also brought a letter explaining their cases as per:

2.1.1.4. Have an exception from the NCPA President or CEO. Exemptions may be granted under certain circumstances, including

After the papers were turned in, they were told something to the affect of " waivers must be turned in prior to the event and they were not going to grant waivers to them at check-in".

At this point, players may use their "lifetime" exception which wasn't "unofficially" added to the rules until 02-16-2011, 09:19 PM.
This option was NOT offered to our team until we were already dropped into Class AA and I started working with Chris and his staff personally to make sure that no violations were taking place before USF would take the field.

link to "unofficial rule addition/change": http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...+eligibilit y

At this point, 2 out of 4 players were given the options to use this method to compete ONLY in the class AA division. The statements that were given about "checking on the players eligibility to legally use this method would be checked the following work week and anything wrong with it would end with a full club suspension."
This comment was made clear and taken very seriously by both players. They needed to know, and be able to prove that they could meet ALL of these requirements:

- You've already played in the NCPA.
- You're playing on the same team you played on the last time
- You're enrolled in a degree program (you're admitted as a student, not just taking some classes)
- You have at least two full-time semesters at the school you're playing for (sorry, no Freshmen. That's also two semesters where the student was full-time, not two full-time semesters worth of credit.)
- You were enrolled full-time the previous semester (or on Co-Op or active duty or some such.)

You can begin to understand the choices facing players and why they decided not to risk the club with the vagueness of how "having 2 full-time semesters" yields difference in interpretation (enrollment/credit completion), the players not wanting to make a mistake that would put the club in jeopardy, and burning a one-use exception for Class AA play instead of A.

With all of this, there is, and never was any problem with the actual rules as we read prior to check in on Thursday. Things happen and sometimes people just don't think. It doesn't mean anything more than a mistake was made. All of the efforts made to adhere to the rules, as stated to us, where not officially written in the posted rules PDF, should have been more than ample to provide proof to show our desire for full compliance.

In almost 20 years in this sport, I have yet to see a team have to go through anything close to what this team dealt with only to be left with the choice of playing Class AA with ONLY 4 players or leaving the event and forfiting Class AA entrance fees after being told, you will have your money returned to the CC that was used to purchase it.
What happened was handled poorly and it reflects negativly upon our sport.

There isn't any need for further comments concering USF's organization and this situation by anyone.
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Last edited by gerbel : 04-18-2011 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:05 PM #47
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Really he is trying to run a College only event and you are telling me he dose not have time to screen the players. What a joke, you think that NCAA screens the player that play in it leagues. Because well if it was a proper college event all that it would take for him to get this information is by having each team send him a transcript (from what i hear the players already do this) and a quick look will tell if they are full time. And just to let every one know that there is many different way to be a full time student, every university has different criteria. Some accept work study as full time, different majors, Undergrad, grad all have different requirements.
And if you've read the thread, exceptions are made to those graduate level students who are not taking 12 or more hours to be a full time student.
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Old 04-18-2011, 04:52 PM #48
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At no time did the NCPA tell the USF team that they could not play. Not once. Ever.

We did tell the USF team that if they were caught cheating by playing with players who were not eligible to play that we would suspend the whole team.

The team ultimately chose not to compete.


Edit: After receiving additional information, it appears some member(s) of the team may not have fully conveyed accurate information to other team members or to the NCPA. I don't want to apply a label to the entire team when it is possible some or many of the team members were put in a bad situation by someone else.


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Old 04-18-2011, 05:06 PM #49
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USF has played before with no problems i have never seen a team go threw this much to play an event... I think we all know what this is really about.
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Old 04-18-2011, 05:22 PM #50
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USF has played before with no problems i have never seen a team go threw this much to play an event... I think we all know what this is really about.
Was USF fielding illegal players in the previous events?


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Old 04-18-2011, 06:28 PM #51
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thats your job to know chris, not ours. if you cant handle the [gosh darn] responsibility placed at your feet, then maybe you shouldnt have the job.

think about that one buddy? no, of course not. you thought of everything else though didnt you?

Last edited by generalee72 : 04-24-2011 at 07:51 AM. Reason: filter bypass
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Old 04-18-2011, 06:58 PM #52
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thats your job to know chris, not ours. if you cant handle the ****** responsibility placed at your feet, then maybe you shouldnt have the job.

think about that one buddy? no, of course not. you thought of everything else though didnt you?
I like to think that the schools would just have legitimate players, chris has alot of stuff to do, it'd be nice if he could have some faith/trust in the teams
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:12 PM #53
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Originally Posted by LEX_BALLER 3 View Post
USF has played before with no problems i have never seen a team go threw this much to play an event... I think we all know what this is really about.
Oh course this has everything to due with a stupid fued between sites that are both here for one reason and that is for the GROWTH or PAINTBALL why there is a fued who knows but it is becoming childish to say the least
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:25 PM #54
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At no time did the NCPA tell the USF team that they could not play. Not once. Ever.

We did tell the USF team that if they were caught cheating by playing with players who were not eligible to play that we would suspend the whole team.

The team ultimately chose not to compete.


Edit: After receiving additional information, it appears some member(s) of the team may not have fully conveyed accurate information to other team members or to the NCPA. I don't want to apply a label to the entire team when it is possible some or many of the team members were put in a bad situation by someone else.


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were they at least refunded for their entry?
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:58 PM #55
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were they at least refunded for their entry?
nope not yet and probably wont happen either.
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Old 04-18-2011, 08:59 PM #56
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Oh course this has everything to due with a stupid fued between sites that are both here for one reason and that is for the GROWTH or PAINTBALL why there is a fued who knows but it is becoming childish to say the least
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:14 PM #57
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thats your job to know chris, not ours. if you cant handle the [gosh darn] responsibility placed at your feet, then maybe you shouldnt have the job.

think about that one buddy? no, of course not. you thought of everything else though didnt you?
So you will cheat unless someone else stops you?

You're now suspended from paintball tournaments.

Always happy to do my job.

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Old 04-18-2011, 09:21 PM #58
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So you will cheat unless someone else stops you?

You're now suspended from paintball tournaments.

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Old 04-18-2011, 09:27 PM #59
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Bring down the hammer.
Actually no he has no way to prove in real life that any of us are who we say we are
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:41 PM #60
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Old 04-18-2011, 09:43 PM #61
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thats pretty unecessary...

but since USF never actualy did anything wrong in the tournement, they should at least get their money back. If they dont thats some seriously poor managment, acompleatly unfair, and not to mention down right theft.

am I wrong?
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:02 PM #62
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I'd say your correct.

I'm sure the management knew they were going to pull USF from the start, they could have at least told them in advance that their players were "illegal". it would have saved USF a lot of time and money and maybe USF could have filled the roster with legal players if they were told in advance and not at the start of the tourney.

It shows they care more about the money than they do the players telling them this after they paid for intry, paint, etc.
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Old 04-18-2011, 10:07 PM #63
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USF has played before with no problems i have never seen a team go threw this much to play an event... I think we all know what this is really about.
I don't get it were they sponsored by virtue or somewhere Pbnation doesn't like ? And I thought empire and dye sponsored ncpa nationals not Pbnation
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