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Old 06-27-2010, 08:57 PM #43
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I just got back froma game with my autococker...you can run water over the front block if you angle the gun down so water does not run up into the board and internals of the body.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:02 PM #44
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Personally I grew tired of shooting electros all the time. I started playing pump with cockers and I have been loving paintball like old times. I had never actually owned a full bodied factory built cocker, until last week...

I now own a CCM Series 5. What a joy to shoot.

Personally I miss the old days of mech/pump play. I have been playing for 14 years, and it just seemed like the culture was nicer, more inviting, and more fun "back in the day." While I was a huge fan of semi's for a long time, I have bought nearly ever model from my first Shocker 4x4 SF (brand new, upon release) to egos, dm's, borgs, ect ect....I truly miss the feel of the mech, and I personally would love to see new "WGP" cockers hit the shelves.

BUT... I do not necessarily think cockers need to be "updated".... Look at CCM for example. The t2 internals are butter smooth, and very very efficient. Sure that is only half the equation, as you would need a front block... but the point is cockers are amazing machines, efficient and very consistent. The only "upgrade" I could see would be simplifying the timing process for new players.
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:57 PM #45
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Originally Posted by glaman5266 View Post
For the high-end and upper midrange markets, I agree.
But if they want to move tons of units and take back a large share of the market I don't see this as being a good way to go. The more parts there are, the more it costs to manufacture. Not to mention that any "seriously cool" milling will likely not be cheap to do. Those costs will be reflected in the price tag.
Sorry if I didnt read he whole thread, but the costs wouldnt be as expensive since they have the machinery already to do the karnivor. With a karnivor like body and new fram ethe will sell like hot cakes. they just need good marketing and some upgrades like the mq valve. Not mentioning it would have a market in old players that try to get a "classic".
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Old 06-29-2010, 04:25 PM #46
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if the trigger frame was bigger on the karnivor i would be shooting one right now
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:04 PM #47
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I think it all comes down to this, without the Orr's, WGP is as good as dead. I fully believe that cockers will always have a place in paintball, I would shoot my 05 superstock over an EGO all day long. It's just as fast and so much smoother. The Autococker is unfortunatly perceived by the majority of the public as a "complicated" gun that is hard to tune. While we as cocker owners know that to be false, that stigma is there. Alot of people have gotten lazy and want a gun that they can shoot and toss in a bag and never touch. People refuse to get to know there markers and prefer to let someone else do it. Cockers do take a little more love then that. Although I use a Victory for the majority of my team play, there are 7 cockers on the wall with it that get as much or more use than it does. Your will have to pry my cockers out of my cold dead hands, unfortunatly, JT did kill WGP but the cocker will live on for ever!
Just my two cents.
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:25 PM #48
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The cocker is more then just a "little complicated". Compaired to other markers, it is very complicated...and you have to realize there are people out there who can't even do an oil change or fill the air in tires on their car, let alone know how a cocker works. I hate to say it, but the people who have and love cockers, who can work on them, are just smarter when it comes to things like that. Why are they smarter? B/c they chose to be...and took the time to learn. Others won't...and that is only one reason why they are dead....
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Old 07-01-2010, 08:33 PM #49
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JT is worthless when it comes to cockers. I've talked to their "techs" before at events and they wouldnt know their *** from their pneumatics. Besides... doesnt it make perfect sense to buy a reasonably decent company and start turning out crappy products and run them into the ground so it is worth nothing?



With the current resurgence in pumps they could have made a decent variety of sheridan based pumps low to high end. Karnivor autocockers are still worth $450+ used apparently to all the agglets even tho better cockers can be had for much cheaper, so there is still a market for something that was priced in the Vice/Protege range.

It could have been done if they hadnt gone stupid.
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Old 07-02-2010, 04:55 PM #50
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Quote:
The cocker is more then just a "little complicated". Compaired to other markers, it is very complicated...and you have to realize there are people out there who can't even do an oil change or fill the air in tires on their car, let alone know how a cocker works. I hate to say it, but the people who have and love cockers, who can work on them, are just smarter when it comes to things like that. Why are they smarter? B/c they chose to be...and took the time to learn. Others won't...and that is only one reason why they are dead....
I totally agree!
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Old 07-21-2010, 12:32 AM #51
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I hope that cockers get revived somehow...all I can get here, as far as I know, is
co2, so going back to a marker I liked in the first place isn't a negative to me. Maybe some sort of beefed up trilogy as kee's low-end, then the mini, then a new karnivore (we'll call it the "Predator", in case something's in the works that needs a name) as the high end. I dunno. I'd really hate to see cockers die out. Mags are already gone, so yeah...I like miss the old school. Paintball seemed so much cooler and so much more alive 10 years ago.
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Old 07-21-2010, 04:14 AM #52
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Ehh. 'Mags are not gone, you can still buy them brand new. The newer ULE 'Mags are pretty sweet, centerfeed, threaded feedneck, cocker barrels etc..
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:39 PM #53
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If you would have said to a tournament or serious recreational player 15 years ago that we would not have autocockers in the future, they would have looked back at you as if you were crazy.

oh how times have changed!
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:47 PM #54
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only market that i see WGP in these days are pump players..I see everyone rocking some sort of cocker on the field there
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:01 AM #55
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All this talk of Karnis being the best makes me sick. They were/still are great Electric cockers, but have you ever shot a DC2?


DC2 was the best electro cocker ever created.
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Old 08-27-2010, 05:30 AM #56
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sometimes I miss my karni, it was awesome. Just the maintenance and the cleaning.. especially if you got hit in the front block was just wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy yyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too much.
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Also, I personally wish I had the money and desire to play mech, because I would get that Shocktech SFL. Right now that's the only "high end" BNIB gun on the market.
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Old 08-27-2010, 10:13 AM #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFGhost View Post
The cocker is more then just a "little complicated". Compaired to other markers, it is very complicated...and you have to realize there are people out there who can't even do an oil change or fill the air in tires on their car, let alone know how a cocker works. I hate to say it, but the people who have and love cockers, who can work on them, are just smarter when it comes to things like that. Why are they smarter? B/c they chose to be...and took the time to learn. Others won't...and that is only one reason why they are dead....
Just to kind of clarify on this one - take a look at any electro poppit gun. What do they not have that Cockers have? A sear, that's about it. Ram, LPR, solenoid/4way valve. Yep, all present. Because the Cocker is closed bolt, setup is a little more involved, but today we see guys tinkering with dwell, BIP, eye speed, and other settings. Cockers are seen as complicated because they're different than what's out there right now.

I think it's a travesty what has become of the WGP line. What's almost funny is that the companies that Bud went after back in the day are some of the only ones still making this style marker. Who would have thought?
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Old 09-06-2010, 11:20 PM #58
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ill take a nice mech cocker as an entry level gun. anything new
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Old 09-07-2010, 12:56 AM #59
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Just to kind of clarify on this one - take a look at any electro poppit gun. What do they not have that Cockers have? A sear, that's about it. Ram, LPR, solenoid/4way valve. Yep, all present. Because the Cocker is closed bolt, setup is a little more involved, but today we see guys tinkering with dwell, BIP, eye speed, and other settings. Cockers are seen as complicated because they're different than what's out there right now.

I think it's a travesty what has become of the WGP line. What's almost funny is that the companies that Bud went after back in the day are some of the only ones still making this style marker. Who would have thought?
Bud thought. That's why he went after them.

Autocockers were popular for a long time... Long enough for the custom parts and guns to be the standard. This created an atmosphere where the most desirable gun was the one that was as far from what the factory was doing as possible.

WGP was losing the share of the market that included anyone who was seriously into cockers.

Who knows if suing the other companies was the right move... But I can see the logic, considering the context.
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Old 10-01-2010, 01:26 AM #60
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i love my SR. I have heard that they need to be tuned when new but that isnt that hard of a task. every gun get i tune asap anyways. most guns need tuning for paint and environmental differences so whats the big deal. every gun owner should know how to use, clean, and tune the gun they own.

I would love to see a cocker with some sort of a e-bolt or air ram hammer system in to instead of the spring/sear tripper design we have now. some system that can drive the hammer back and forth faster or operate the valve faster would be a great improvement.
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Old 10-01-2010, 08:42 AM #61
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I would love to see a cocker with some sort of a e-bolt or air ram hammer system in to instead of the spring/sear tripper design we have now. some system that can drive the hammer back and forth faster or operate the valve faster would be a great improvement.

Isn't what u described any poppit gun out right now
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:44 AM #62
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Isn't what u described any poppit gun out right now
nope they are not closed bolt operation.
I dont know just asking, what other close bolts guns are there?
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:47 AM #63
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nope they are not closed bolt operation.
I dont know just asking, what other close bolts guns are there?
I see what u mean.
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