[babsa_90]

Originally Posted by Crede777

You also can't compare homosexual relations between two adult males to sexual predation between a man and a child.

The fact that the action is between two consenting adults is key.

I dont think anyone insinuated that homosexual relationships are no different then child molestation.

[warbeak2099]

Kidz insinuated that pedophilia is just as much a form of sexual orientation as homosexuality. Kind of absurd.

[babsa_90]

Originally Posted by warbeak2099

Kidz insinuated that pedophilia is just as much a form of sexual orientation as homosexuality. Kind of absurd.

Is it absurd? What do you think it is? I honestly dont think anyone would want to be sexually aroused by children. In fact, many pedophiles seek help because of this.

[Crede777]

Originally Posted by babsa_90

I dont think anyone insinuated that homosexual relationships are no different then child molestation.

It was pretty obvious that's where he was going with it. Just wanted to head it off.

Pedophilia may be a combination of biochemistry and upbringing as well. However, that alone does not grant carte blanche to do whatever you want. Kinda like serial killers who are predisposed to psychotic behavior, just because it isn't a conscious choice doesn't mean it's okay.

[babsa_90]

Originally Posted by Crede777

It was pretty obvious that's where he was going with it. Just wanted to head it off.

Pedophilia may be a combination of biochemistry and upbringing as well. However, that alone does not grant carte blanche to do whatever you want. Kinda like serial killers who are predisposed to psychotic behavior, just because it isn't a conscious choice doesn't mean it's okay.

Oh, of course not.

[RamboPreacher]

to the OP:
maybe, or maybe not. I amnot aware of any significant, specific genetic evideces in Humans.

with that said, it is my Biblical, hermaneutical approach to the subjet in short that says this: it is not necessarily a sin to be a homosexual, it is a sin to participate in homosexual activities.

Mi dos centavos

[270KIDZ]

Originally Posted by Crede777

Pedophilia may be a combination of biochemistry and upbringing as well. However, that alone does not grant carte blanche to do whatever you want. Kinda like serial killers who are predisposed to psychotic behavior, just because it isn't a conscious choice doesn't mean it's okay.

But isn't that in itself the reason for the "born gay" argument to begin with. Trying to justify that their actions by making it not their choice.

**** I am not saying that homosexuality is wrong/bad/anything. I am poking a hole in the bad logic that someone born gay gives them the right to be so. ****

[ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη]

Originally Posted by 270KIDZ

But isn't that in itself the reason for the "born gay" argument to begin with. Trying to justify that their actions by making it not their choice.

**** I am not saying that homosexuality is wrong/bad/anything. I am poking a hole in the bad logic that someone born gay gives them the right to be so. ****

Homosexuality is a lot more accepted than necrophilia, pedophilia, etc. That is the only difference. Collective Morals vs. Individual Morals.

[270KIDZ]

Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη

Homosexuality is a lot more accepted than necrophilia, pedophilia, etc.

Well duh.

Point being:
Homosexuals use the concept that they are born gay (true or not) to justify
their actions.

I believe that homosexuality, along with all other sexualities, are a combination of nature (genetics, biochemistry) and nurture (experiences, influences).

So according to that logic that being born with an inclination towards something justifies it, we should open up the prisons and let out the serial killers and pedophiles because they too were a result of nature and nurture.

Clearly that isn't logical. You can't just do something because you are born inclined towards it. So lock the pedophiles and serial killers back up, and find the homosexuals another justification because this one doesn't fly.

/done

[ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη]

Originally Posted by 270KIDZ

Well duh.

Point being:
Homosexuals use the concept that they are born gay (true or not) to justify
their actions.

I believe that homosexuality, along with all other sexualities, are a combination of nature (genetics, biochemistry) and nurture (experiences, influences).

So according to that logic that being born with an inclination towards something justifies it, we should open up the prisons and let out the serial killers and pedophiles because they too were a result of nature and nurture.

Clearly that isn't logical. You can't just do something because you are born inclined towards it. So lock the pedophiles and serial killers back up, and find the homosexuals another justification because this one doesn't fly.

/done

No, not really. Why aren't homosexuals locked up? Because they ARE accepted, while serial killers and such are locked up because they aren't accepted. The society's or culture's collective morals dictate the way the law and interpretation and such will go. If the society were open upon pedophilia and killing, then those people wouldn't go to jail. Being born with a predisposition to something does not make something justifiable necessarily (although, I can certainly see how your particular worldview may come into play here). People who do not conform to the norm are at the mercy of the norm. Collective morals may dictate that killing is wrong, but one's individual morals may dictate that killing is not wrong. Individual morals usually trump collective morals in the individual's mind. So the jail system was put in place to ensure that others would be more likely to concede to collective morals.

I never said being born with an inclination to do something justifies it. It is all highly subjective. Some people think homosexuality is morally wrong, and some people think that killing is morally right (perhaps not right, but at least not wrong). But I think you can see how homosexuality is different from serially killing people, and why society is more tolerant towards homosexuality. So even if both are traits that one is born with, they are clearly different when it comes to moral value.

[270KIDZ]

Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη

No, not really. Why aren't homosexuals locked up? Because they ARE accepted, while serial killers and such are locked up because they aren't accepted. The society's or culture's collective morals dictate the way the law and interpretation and such will go. If the society were open upon pedophilia and killing, then those people wouldn't go to jail. Being born with a predisposition to something does not make something justifiable necessarily (although, I can certainly see how your particular worldview may come into play here). People who do not conform to the norm are at the mercy of the norm. Collective morals may dictate that killing is wrong, but one's individual morals may dictate that killing is not wrong. Individual morals usually trump collective morals in the individual's mind. So the jail system was put in place to ensure that others would be more likely to concede to collective morals.

I never said being born with an inclination to do something justifies it. It is all highly subjective. Some people think homosexuality is morally wrong, and some people think that killing is morally right (perhaps not right, but at least not wrong). But I think you can see how homosexuality is different from serially killing people, and why society is more tolerant towards homosexuality. So even if both are traits that one is born with, they are clearly different when it comes to moral value.

Ok, I'm done wasting my time.

(Word of advice: read a conversation before you join it...)

[Loganinderrieden23]

If you were born gay that means you have no choice but to get it up the butt? even if you don't want it. ????

edit i would think people would choose what they want im stickin with meh women

[carp]

In my psychology class two semesters ago my teacher said that the hypothalamus (part of what connects the two lobes together) can be enlarged via a hormonal release from the mother which causes this to grow larger and more similar to a females. I don't know enough about the topic myself to say otherwise however this is what they are teaching at community college now anyhow.

[T3H_MA$TA]

So i guess im on a bit of an R/P posting rampage

Originally Posted by 270KIDZ

Well duh.

Point being:
Homosexuals use the concept that they are born gay (true or not) to justify
their actions.

I believe that homosexuality, along with all other sexualities, are a combination of nature (genetics, biochemistry) and nurture (experiences, influences).

So according to that logic that being born with an inclination towards something justifies it, we should open up the prisons and let out the serial killers and pedophiles because they too were a result of nature and nurture.

Clearly that isn't logical. You can't just do something because you are born inclined towards it. So lock the pedophiles and serial killers back up, and find the homosexuals another justification because this one doesn't fly.

/done

Are you seriously comparing homosexual behavior with murder and child rape? ****, dude. You're basically saying that biological inclination cannot be used to support ANYTHING now. Are some people predisposed to kill other people? Probably. Does that give them permission to do so? Of course not, because that person clearly cannot function in society without disrupting others' lives. Same with pedophilia. But now you say that homosexuals knowingly falsify their biological predisposition to defend their actions? Other than what some religions find "abhorrent" about homosexual behavior, please tell me why they should have to justify anything to you. It affects you (or anyone for that matter) personally in no conceivable way, other than your apparent desire to relish in their eternal damnation. Its unbelievable to me why people care so much about this. Even if it is complete personal choice on their part, who the **** cares. Their personal lives affect NO ONE.

[MVPaintballer]

Originally Posted by vijil

The fact is that it's a variety of factors. You can be born with a predisposition, sure, but your upbringing will impact this as well.

It seems like 2-3 times each year another homophobe is caught with another man. Their crazy, prejudiced, and abusive upbringing causes them to suppress their natural attraction towards the same sex. The cerebral power is so strong that they are able to suppress their own sexual urges, only to have it come out after decades of denial... which subsequently hurts the lives of their children and spouse.

So I agree. If you're brought up being told by pastors and priests that who you are is wrong (eternal hellfire, etc.), then you're probably going to suppress it in fear for as long as you can. If you're told that farting is wrong you're going to suppress it as well... but sooner or later its going to happen.

From a scientific standpoint, this is sort of a tainted subject afaik.

Originally Posted by babsa_90

If they lay with another man, than yes they are sinners.

What if they're standing up? Is it cool then?

[Crede777]

Originally Posted by 270KIDZ

But isn't that in itself the reason for the "born gay" argument to begin with. Trying to justify that their actions by making it not their choice.

It's a major reason, yes, but it isn't the ENTIRE reason. There are other things which much be taken into account like how those actions affect others.

For example, adultery is usually frowned upon by our American culture. However, there almost undeniably are men who feel a very strong urge to father children with multiple females. This is not true of every male, many of whom are quite content (or even prefer) being solitary mates.

Genetically it is unclear whether we are programmed for polygamy or monogamy. Many primates which are close to us in terms of heredity are polygamous. So why don't, or why shouldn't, most male Americans father children with 2 or more women? Because we're failing to account for the influence of society.

[P0ontang 09er (Banned)]

Originally Posted by Crede777

It's a major reason, yes, but it isn't the ENTIRE reason. There are other things which much be taken into account like how those actions affect others.

For example, adultery is usually frowned upon by our American culture. However, there almost undeniably are men who feel a very strong urge to father children with multiple females. This is not true of every male, many of whom are quite content (or even prefer) being solitary mates.

Genetically it is unclear whether we are programmed for polygamy or monogamy. Many primates which are close to us in terms of heredity are polygamous. So why don't, or why shouldn't, most male Americans father children with 2 or more women? Because we're failing to account for the influence of society.

From an evolutionary standpoint I think it would make the most sense for humans to be polygamous. A variety of different genes create natural variation and in turn makes the species stronger and more adapted to its environment.

When you have 2 parents you only have 2 sets of genes(and even then there are so many possible genetic makeups), but if you have 1 father who has had children with 5 other women--the gene pool of the resulting population is much more diverse.

[Crede777]

Originally Posted by P0ontang 09er

From an evolutionary standpoint I think it would make the most sense for humans to be polygamous. A variety of different genes create natural variation and in turn makes the species stronger and more adapted to its environment.

When you have 2 parents you only have 2 sets of genes(and even then there are so many possible genetic makeups), but if you have 1 father who has had children with 5 other women--the gene pool of the resulting population is much more diverse.

Monogamy has its benefits too. For organisms which live for relatively long periods of time, it's often best to have just a few children and put a lot of resources into their development as opposed to just having many children with many wives. Genetic diversity is nice, but so too is robustness.

Plus females may be following a different evolutionary arc, one which selects for traits which influence their mates to become monogamous.

[APC Broken Saints]

possibly a generational curse?...isn't that somewhere in the Bible?...could've sworn i've come past it somewhere...i mean we were all born with "original" sin...but i doubt coming gay out of the womb.....questions arise. i kind of had the same questions..but about a different sin. i was thinking "was i born with a great lust?" (ie my fathers an epic pimp)...because i've been having problems with hot chicks all of sudden...it's like this random burden...and it happens in patterns i noticed...i dunno, i'm not gonna press my luck. but googled/looked around.


Old Testament
----------------
Exodus 20:5

5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,

New Testament
----------------------
Deuteronomy 24:16

16 Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their fathers; each is to die for his own sin.

[dcent11]

agree with OP.

babies are totally gay.

[Kierny]

There is no scientific evidence...