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Old 07-28-2010, 01:12 AM #43
RyanR (Banned)
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:10 AM #44
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im sure that families in ethiopia really care about saving shells and beads with the .50 cal... GI or anyone, for that matter will never be able to trump the .68, its like trying to de-throne the tippmann 98 as a beginners gun... it cant be done, end of story. (i would feel comfortable saying 5/8 players, today, started off with a 98). the backbone of the sport is in the woods, and the day the .50 cal knocks Tippmann and BT of the proverbial woodsball throne will be the day that Hugh Hefner gives me a robe and the keys to his house.... hey i can dream
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Old 07-28-2010, 02:19 AM #45
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I'll be absolutely honest here, I would totally be down for an "FM50" if it were an "FM68" instead. I'm just a big fan of the way it breaks down for maintenance and hopper/mag fed interchangeability.
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Old 07-28-2010, 03:41 AM #46
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Originally Posted by DangerClose View Post
im sure that families in ethiopia really care about saving shells and beads with the .50 cal... GI or anyone, for that matter will never be able to trump the .68, its like trying to de-throne the tippmann 98 as a beginners gun... it cant be done, end of story. (i would feel comfortable saying 5/8 players, today, started off with a 98). the backbone of the sport is in the woods, and the day the .50 cal knocks Tippmann and BT of the proverbial woodsball throne will be the day that Hugh Hefner gives me a robe and the keys to his house.... hey i can dream
I love mah Tippy's.

P.S. Hugh Hefner actually has 2 houses, both are identical and in side-by-side lots. He also scored an IQ of 152 which is stellar to say the least.

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I'll be absolutely honest here, I would totally be down for an "FM50" if it were an "FM68" instead. I'm just a big fan of the way it breaks down for maintenance and hopper/mag fed interchangeability.
As would I, if I didn't know the profits would support asshattery.
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Old 07-28-2010, 07:44 AM #47
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This makes things better how? At least when Smart Parts was operating they were emplying people in North America.
I didn't say better I said CHEAPER - get your comments right if you want to have an intelligent discussion - and if you don't like manufacturers leaving the US then vote better people in office who aren't in Banks pockets and force great companies like smart parts to fold because they had one bad quarter...if u are denying that it is more economical for a company to produce abroad then u are dead wrong which weakens your original argument that GI Milsim is folding - they have no overhead buddy.


Originally Posted by Teddymo
the reputation of the parties involved in producing great markers is one of the best

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Originally Posted by Spitlebug View Post
No.
No? Smart Parts did not produce amazing markers? Have you ever shot a shocker an SP1 a Luxe? What do you shoot markers made out of pure gold? Are you aware of the smart parts patents? The lawsuits that ensued - obviously your simple No answer shows a weak response to something you know nothing about.

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I watched it and thought Bob presented himself horribly and presented more logical falacies than a cheese grater has holes.
Bob Long horrible - Sacrilege! the guy has been in paintball longer than you have probably been a scratch on your daddy's balls - And talking of holes did you see the part of the video where the .68 caliber was smashing holes in the plastic but the .50 was breaking at the same velocity? Probably not which is why you cant comprehend that less bruising is more paintball friendly for newbs.


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The problem really isn't with the caliber, it's a Governmental problem with percieved militarization of the populace.
Wrong. The problem is with caliber because airsoft guns can be sold in those countries because the joules or impact is below 14. .50 caliber is well below most government guidelines. So all the time that paintball was illegal in those countries it allowed airsoft to grow. Now paintball can compete with airsoft in those countries - countries like Japan - germany - finland - noorway - etc...not ethiopia - kids in those countries shoot real AK-47s. do your homework before you spew BS


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No. I don't think you are qualified to make that statement, nor do I even remotely believe there is any truth to that statement.
Google Searches -
Paintball - About 19,700,000 results (0.24 seconds) - Since 1984
Airsoft - About 15,300,000 results (0.18 seconds) - Since late 90's

All started in japan buddy - paintball was illegal so they invented airsoft.

To the rest of your responses i repeat in all caps..

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Old 07-29-2010, 01:20 AM #48
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I didn't say better I said CHEAPER - get your comments right if you want to have an intelligent discussion
No need to be insulting. Your last post started off with an insult as does this post.

Oh, I thought I would let you know, regarding the "cheaper" aspect - my sources say the the new G.I. MILSIM offerings are going to be more expensive than the prviously Smart Parts offerings.

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and if you don't like manufacturers leaving the US then vote better people in office who aren't in Banks pockets and force great companies like smart parts to fold because they had one bad quarter...if u are denying that it is more economical for a company to produce abroad then u are dead wrong which weakens your original argument that GI Milsim is folding - they have no overhead buddy.
I am not American. Let's not divert attention from the real issue at hand, such as the loss of American jobs. If a company folds after one bad quarter, it is likely that they have been utilizing poor accounting and poor business practices for a long time. In short, the problem was systemic.

All companies have overhead, even non-profit and volunteer groups - guy.

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No? Smart Parts did not produce amazing markers? Have you ever shot a shocker an SP1 a Luxe? What do you shoot markers made out of pure gold? Are you aware of the smart parts patents? The lawsuits that ensued - obviously your simple No answer shows a weak response to something you know nothing about.
You are kidding me right? Smart Parts has one of the worst reputations in paintball. Their blatant profiteering has caused many people to disvow shooting or buying their products.

I would like to call attention to the Bill Gardner beatdown that happened here not too long ago, in which Sean Scott had to come rescue poor little Billy. Lulzy.

If you want to have a discussion about Smart Parts and their litigation, feel free to make a different thread, link it here and I'll come. I'll even let you have first salvo. That is... if you think I know so little.

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Bob Long horrible - Sacrilege!
Bob Long is just a guy. He is not infallible.

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the guy has been in paintball longer than you have probably been a scratch on your daddy's balls - And talking of holes did you see the part of the video where the .68 caliber was smashing holes in the plastic but the .50 was breaking at the same velocity? Probably not which is why you cant comprehend that less bruising is more paintball friendly for newbs.
Indeed, Bob has been around for a very long time in the paintball industry. That does not defend his position on what ultimately will be the consumers choice. I see a lot of hedging on 50 caliber but not a lot of anything else.

Pain is not a problem in the sport. It offers a vert tangible response to being hit. Perhaps it's the fact that newer markers shoot very rapidly as compared to previous generations of markers and that people tend to overshoot other players for a plethora of reasons.

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Wrong. The problem is with caliber because airsoft guns can be sold in those countries because the joules or impact is below 14. .50 caliber is well below most government guidelines. So all the time that paintball was illegal in those countries it allowed airsoft to grow. Now paintball can compete with airsoft in those countries - countries like Japan - germany - finland - noorway - etc...not ethiopia - kids in those countries shoot real AK-47s. do your homework before you spew BS
I think you are very confused. Allow me to enlighten you before you start accusing someone else of "not doing their homework". You do understand that a joule is a measurement of energy and not actually a linear size measurement such as caliber. While is true that caliber tends to play a role in the joules that a marker produces, it is actually mass and velocity that are much more important. This is also why 50 caliber fails. I am sure you can go and find all the details as to why it doesn't stack up to 68 caliber as there is more than enough information posted here, mcarterbrown, ****** and various other forums.

Physics are undeniable.

Also, I can't believe you just made the comment that "kids in those countries shoot real AK-47s". That sir, is a moralistic fallacy. It is also incredibly insulting.

I think you'd be better off concentrating your arguement on one area such as North America or Europe/Asia. Jumping from one to the other only obfuscates what few (if any) points you are trying to make.

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Google Searches -
Paintball - About 19,700,000 results (0.24 seconds) - Since 1984
Airsoft - About 15,300,000 results (0.18 seconds) - Since late 90's
You are kidding right? I don't think you are aware at how Google indexes pages and search results.

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All started in japan buddy - paintball was illegal so they invented airsoft.
Erm, no. Paintball was not illegal. Possesion of "firearms and swords" was. Airsoft has been around just about as long as paintball. You are right that Airsoft did start in Japan.

One last parting thought about the Asian market: Did you forget about 43 caliber? Would you like to educate everyone else reading this as to why 43 caliber exists?
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:41 AM #49
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Wait, what? All technology becomes smaller?

Uh. Ok, for like computers and radios maybe. But this is sporting goods. Are golf clubs and balls getting smaller? Baseballs and bats and gloves? Basketballs and hoops? Tennis balls and rackets? Uh. No.

Ok, so say it's more like a gun than sporting goods. Are guns any smaller than they were 50 years ago? 100 years ago?


Also, the Gardner brothers aren't involved with GI Milsim anymore, are they?

And I'm the guy who.. Well, I didn't say GI Milsim is folding. I said that any business has a certain amount of time to start turning a profit based on the amount of money they've got to keep things rolling at a loss. Got news for you.. Manufacturing in Asia is cheaper, but not free. These guys sunk a fair amount of cash into designing those guns. They sunk a lot of cash into marketing those guns.. I mean a ton of cash. Those full page magazine ads are insanely expensive. Getting guys like Chris Lasoya to spend months running his mouth about how awesome you are? That takes cash too. It cost them a load of money to get the guns and gear built. It may well have cost more to ship them to the US or whereever they're warehoused. And then they have to pay for that, too. They're also paying for employees to run the warehouse, to sell the stuff, to do more marketing, to keep their books, to mop the floors. All of that's costing them a bundle of cash.

Now, this is not a judgement on .50 caliber's merits. But taking into account that they're burning money, like any other business they need to be bringing it back in. To do that they need to make a big splash. What they've done is fizzle. A lot of noise, and then a lot of nothing. They need to be getting out to fields and stores with these guns and putting them in player's hands, selling the field and store owners on pushing them locally. They're not doing that. I suspect that the reason they're not doing that is they're not financially able, because these folks all know how to do marketing. Also, I don't get the idea of demanding a high minimum order. If a store wants to get two of these guns in, let them. It's a foot in the door. You say they're making a distribution deal with Valken.. Well, that would be good for them. But why did they take so long to do it? They spent a fortune building .50 cal hype over the winter.. They should have had a distribution deal going as soon as they hit the ground with the gear in order to get the most from their marketing money. Because they didn't, that means that they've wasted a ton of cash. Have no doubt, something has gone seriously wrong for GI Milsim's business plan.

Incidentally, I suspect what's gone terribly wrong is Smart Parts falling apart. At a crucial moment when they should have had this stuff hitting the market, GI loses a ton of financial backing and what could have been the intended distributor. I rather wonder if the cost of getting .50 cal off the ground wasn't a significant factor in finally wrecking SP. Again, that's a lot of money invested and a long time to wait for a return. Combine that with credit markets tightening up and you have a serious problem.

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Old 07-30-2010, 01:45 AM #50
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P.S. Hugh Hefner actually has 2 houses, both are identical and in side-by-side lots.
hell, i would live in that mans lawnmower shed
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Old 07-30-2010, 01:50 AM #51
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and as for the whole smart parts bad reputation thing... ask anyone that is into paintball (not just an occasional rec baller) and i would bet 7/9 HATE smart parts. not saying their guns, are bad. but then again they arent really "their" guns, its easy to steal gramma's recipe book and open a bakery. what goes around comes around, and boy did it come around. Tom Kaye gets the final laugh
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Old 07-30-2010, 04:24 AM #52
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lol u guys are nuts - this is only the beginning - GI announced a huge distribution with Valken now the former owner of which was one of the biggest paintball distributors in the US. If i had any money i would invest in GI Milsim - you are talking about the Gardner Brothers "G" makers of some of the best markers out there and richmand Italia "I" who sold his encapsulating company for like 60 million and is back in the industry probably because his non-compete has expired

The markers are hot the reputation of the parties involved in producing great markers is one of the best - 50 is more newb friendly and the guns are being made outside the US which is much cheaper than it ever was for smart parts - watch the bob long 50 caliber movie and you'll understand that 68 will still be around 50 is going to open the door for paintball in countries where it was once illegal = which is why airsoft grew so big now those players have an option and the industry will only get bigger abroad - like they care if the US doesnt adopt .50 cal, the rest of the world will be shooting it since it makes paintball more affordable - just in the cost of air fills alone -

your silly if you cant see the future - all technology eventually gets smaller its the way things work...cars, computers, phones, paintball guns are no different...
So much wrong with this... anyway
You like the gardners reputation? You buy their crap.
You see it as cheaper in the long run, go out there shoot it. I'm sure retailers with this 50 cal junk would love to lighten their stock...

I also got a demonstration of maturity level there, undertakerspaintball.
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Old 07-30-2010, 07:49 AM #53
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You are right that Airsoft did start in Japan.
Wow he didn't disagree with me about something! I win!

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Old 08-02-2010, 08:31 PM #54
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and force great companies like smart parts to fold because they had one bad quarter...
Oh, the irony.

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Are you aware of the smart parts patents? The lawsuits that ensued - obviously your simple No answer shows a weak response to something you know nothing about.
You really don't want to bring those patents into about any discussion that involves defending SP.

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You are kidding me right? Smart Parts has one of the worst reputations in paintball. Their blatant profiteering has caused many people to disvow shooting or buying their products.

I would like to call attention to the Bill Gardner beatdown that happened here not too long ago, in which Sean Scott had to come rescue poor little Billy. Lulzy.

If you want to have a discussion about Smart Parts and their litigation, feel free to make a different thread, link it here and I'll come. I'll even let you have first salvo. That is... if you think I know so little.
If (another) such thread is opened, please link me to it. I did so enjoy Billy arguing about why the Magic Box worked but ignoring why the "patented" spiral porting does not work. I would love to see another thread about SP, their electro patents, and the ensuing litigation.

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richmand Italia "I" who sold his encapsulating company for like 60 million and is back in the industry probably because his non-compete has expired
The non-compete clause was re: .68, and that is why GI Milsim will start producing .68 markers.

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Smaller is not always useful. In fact, too small can become ergonomically stunting.
As shown by the Mini which is so small it is uncomfortable for some people.

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i think they are spending time improving the .5 caliber paintball's performance
Do you have any evidence of this? I am just curious.


The only reason the prices are dropping is because there are few sales at the current price point. GI Milsim would drop prices for only two reasons: 1) little or no demand at current prices; 2) to keep others out of the market (as SP did with the Ion). Since there is almost no action in the .50 market, the second reason does not hold much weight.

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Old 08-02-2010, 08:44 PM #55
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You never know. I've heard that G.I. MILSIM had problems actually getting product to customer anyway. Lowering the price on 50 caliber gear seems like they are just liqudating assets, but it might also be a punch in the face to Kingmann, who if I recall correctly Richmond Italia in an interview basically made an *** of himself and took a few cheap shots at Tom Cole (who was also in the interview).
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:02 PM #56
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Lowering the price on 50 caliber gear seems like they are just liqudating assets, but it might also be a punch in the face to Kingmann, who if I recall correctly Richmond Italia in an interview basically made an *** of himself and took a few cheap shots at Tom Cole (who was also in the interview).
It could be the latter, but they would not lower the prices to liquidate the assets if they were actually selling at current prices.
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:41 AM #57
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and if you don't like manufacturers leaving the US then vote better people in office who aren't in Banks pockets and force great companies like smart parts to fold because they had one bad quarter
Smart Parts didn't have one bad quarter. Go look at the court documents I posted in the news thread about their bankruptcy. Their revenue dropped over 50% from 2008 to 2009.

I'm not sure how a "great" company can sell thousands of Ions and manage to go bankrupt.

I hardly think you can blame the economy or the government. There are other companies int paintball that are having a lot harder time selling products than Smart Parts did that are doing just fine.

Poor leadership is what made Smart Parts fail when they should have been prospering.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:24 AM #58
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Smart Parts didn't have one bad quarter. Go look at the court documents I posted in the news thread about their bankruptcy. Their revenue dropped over 50% from 2008 to 2009.


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Poor leadership is what made Smart Parts fail when they should have been prospering.
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Old 08-13-2010, 09:36 PM #59
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Regardless of if they are folding, switching to new models, or finally ramping up production enough they can lower the price...

Sub $200 is where they need to be to try and push .50 cal electros. If they are trying to get the "less expensive" crowd as the marketing claimed then you need to be priced near Tippmann A5s like the Ion/Vibe/SP1. Pricing that was near that of a Mini was not helping them sell .50 cal markers.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:58 AM #60
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now that i read this whole thread. i realize you are an elitist.


good day sir.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:56 AM #61
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now that i read this whole thread. i realize you are an elitist.


good day sir.
I might invest in a dictionary if I were you lol.
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Old 08-15-2010, 10:02 AM #62
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Old 08-15-2010, 03:14 PM #63
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now that i read this whole thread. i realize you are an elitist.


good day sir.
You know nothing of how the world works.

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