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Old 04-13-2010, 11:15 AM #22
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Correct me if I am wrong, but it is logically possible that something, a living organism, does not require water, but it would be incredibly rare to find such a thing. My point being that water has A LOT of properties that life revolves around. Life uses the properties of water, or manipulates them, in order to perform functions necessary to life.

The problem of having an organism without water is that in order to make up for complex necessary processes, it is going to need something even more complex than life as we see it.

Water is such a huge help in the game of life because it has great properties which help an organism perform specific functions. I mean, if anyone has everyone opened up a biology text book and looked at, for instance, the process by which sugar gets turned into energy, it is pretty fricken complex. now if you take water out of that equation...well...i can't imagine it looking much prettier.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:17 PM #23
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Transformers


nuff said.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:32 PM #24
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Transformers


nuff said.
liquid cooled engines AHA
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Old 04-13-2010, 01:30 PM #25
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Originally Posted by wavesport001 View Post
I agree we start looking for life as we know it, we can't do anything else, but extraterrestrial life may in fact be so different that we don't recognize it as life at all.
This is true, but life could also exist in alternate galaxies which are similar to our own but instead are ruled by antimatter and many physical/chemical processes proceed in reverse.

While it's a fun thought experiment, I think it's hardly practical.
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:41 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spock View Post
"Think oxygen is a requirement for multicellular life?" Plants are a form of "multicellular life".



Oh? Which process would you be referring to?

Photosynthesis is as follows:

6 CO2 + 6 H2O → C6H12O6 + 6 O2
Carbon dioxide + Water + Light energy → Glucose + Oxygen
The reverse
Glucose + Oxygen → CO2 + Water + Energy



Cellular Respiration/Oxidative level phosphorylation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laureate View Post
Correct me if I am wrong, but it is logically possible that something, a living organism, does not require water, but it would be incredibly rare to find such a thing. My point being that water has A LOT of properties that life revolves around. Life uses the properties of water, or manipulates them, in order to perform functions necessary to life.

The problem of having an organism without water is that in order to make up for complex necessary processes, it is going to need something even more complex than life as we see it.

Water is such a huge help in the game of life because it has great properties which help an organism perform specific functions. I mean, if anyone has everyone opened up a biology text book and looked at, for instance, the process by which sugar gets turned into energy, it is pretty fricken complex. now if you take water out of that equation...well...i can't imagine it looking much prettier.
Right. If alternative life is chemically based, it will likely need a universal solvent for the chemical reactions to take place. Water is a fairly rare chemical, and has unique physical properties which make life possible. I can't say "Life without water is impossible", since there may be another solvent that is equally as powerful, but in terms of universal abundance and efficiency, liquid water seems to be the best, from a molecular biophysics point of view.

The point is, water is so integral to our biochemistry its unfathomable to consider something else. And this is for a variety of unique properties, without which we would not exist.

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Originally Posted by wavesport001 View Post
All organisms require water because the first life on earth evolved in a watery environment. Life elsewhere could have evolved in any environment and use any elements (why not silicon instead of carbon?). I agree we start looking for life as we know it, we can't do anything else, but extraterrestrial life may in fact be so different that we don't recognize it as life at all.

But why haven't we seen life incorporate silicon so far? It's one of the most abundant chemicals on earth, and has lacked incorporation in life entirely.

It just isn't reactive enough, yet oxidizes too quickly.

I still don't see your point though. I've already admitted there may be life entirely unlike life here. But what is your point? Should we start sending manned missions to Mercury in search of life? In my opinion, efforts should be made to look for life on planets which are most likely to harbor it. That means planets with water, and perhaps an atmosphere.

I'm tired of debating for the sake of debating, and unless you have a main point to your hair-splitting objections, I think we can let the thread die.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:01 PM #27
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Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
The reverse
Glucose + Oxygen → CO2 + Water + Energy



Cellular Respiration/Oxidative level phosphorylation

They don't absorb that Oxygen from the environment, they get it as a product of photosynthesis.
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:05 PM #28
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They don't absorb that Oxygen from the environment, they get it as a product of photosynthesis.
Plants don't get ALL the oxygen they need from photosynthesis. After all, where do they get their oxygen at night?
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Old 04-13-2010, 05:57 PM #29
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They don't absorb that Oxygen from the environment, they get it as a product of photosynthesis.
Even if this was true, which it isn't, they're still aerobic since they are using Oxygen as their electron acceptor.
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:14 PM #30
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The only reason people think plants don't need oxygen is because they produce more than intake hence the concept that plants release oxygen. They still need it though. Roots are susceptible of being suffocated from receiving oxygen and they die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_root
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Old 04-14-2010, 10:27 AM #31
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Originally Posted by AlphaNeo36 View Post
The only reason people think plants don't need oxygen is because they produce more than intake hence the concept that plants release oxygen. They still need it though. Roots are susceptible of being suffocated from receiving oxygen and they die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_root
Not all plants have aerial roots, and the stoma on plants close at night (so they're not "breathing in" oxygen when photosynthesis is shut down).

I'm still not convinced that there are NO PLANTS that could survive in an oxygen free atmosphere.

Anyway, it's beside the point, because I was just being a smart *** and pointing out what might have been a verbal flub in the OP, referring to multicellular "organisms" rather than multicellular "animals".
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Last edited by Spock : 04-14-2010 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 04-14-2010, 11:39 AM #32
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I'm still not convinced that there are NO PLANTS that could survive in an oxygen free atmosphere.
Wow, and you often make posts that make you seem intelligent.
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:01 PM #33
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Wow, and you often make posts that make you seem intelligent.
Ok, show me one scientific resource that shows ALL plants require atmospheric oxygen to survive.
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:14 PM #34
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Not all plants have aerial roots, and the stoma on plants close at night (so they're not "breathing in" oxygen when photosynthesis is shut down).

I'm still not convinced that there are NO PLANTS that could survive in an oxygen free atmosphere.
The only reason some plants have arial roots is because they evolved in heavily saturated earth. Most plants don't need them because dirt is capable of being penetrated by air. This is first year highschool stuff...
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:19 PM #35
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The only reason some plants have arial roots is because they evolved in heavily saturated earth. Most plants don't need them because dirt is capable of being penetrated by air. This is first year highschool stuff...
I dropped out after junior high.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:45 AM #36
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Obviously, it must be possible for there to exist organisms that can survive without oxygen. And now it's been proven. If there are a few catalysts, any number of things can happen, including formation of multicellular organisms which require no oxygen. I suppose it could be truly said that ALL Planets have a possibility of supporting life, given that there is significant organic matter to create that life in the first place. If there is a planet without oxygen, anaerobic organisms may develop. In a planet without water, organisms which require water may develop (I'm not sure how possible it is for an organism to develop which does not require water, but it certainly can't be impossible).
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:33 AM #37
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I'm still not convinced that there are NO PLANTS that could survive in an oxygen free atmosphere.
There must have been some unicellular organisms (bacteria or prokaryote) capable of photosynthesis that didn't require oxygen in the first place (after all, that's how our atmosphere became 21% oxygen) but I don't think there are multicellular plants that can survive in anaerobic conditions.

If you want to believe that, fine, but the burden of proof falls on you - not me.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:11 PM #38
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Think oxygen is a requirement for multicellular life? Think again. As ScienceNow reports, a team of Danish and Italian researchers have discovered the first anaerobic multicellular organisms in the depths of the Mediterranean Sea. The organisms, dubbed Loricifera, live in a basin made up of salt brine "so dense that it doesn't mix with the oxygen-containing waters above."

ScienceNow's story includes more juicy details:

The researchers also found examples of individuals that contained eggs and evidence of apparent molting, which led them to conclude that the animals spend their whole lives in the harsh sediments. The creature's cells apparently lack mitochondria, the organelles that use oxygen to power a cell. Instead they are rich in what seem to be hydrogenosomes, organelles that can do a similar job in anaerobic (or oxygen free) environments.
If you can grasp talk of prokaryotes, protozoa, eukaryotes, and metazoans, the full study (including images) is available in PDF format through this page on the BMC Biology website.

Link

Kinda throws a wrench in the whole "no planets that can support life" idea.
I'm not following the direction of this thread.... the very life you guys are trying to think of was found in the Mediterranean sea.

I'd also like to point out that where there's water, there's going to be "atmospheric oxygen".
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Old 04-18-2010, 04:47 PM #39
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I think its more about the OPs last sentence.
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Old 04-18-2010, 06:03 PM #40
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Old 04-22-2010, 01:22 PM #41
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So this is like Gilly Weed in Harry Potter?
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