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Old 04-17-2010, 01:32 PM #85
Laureate
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Originally Posted by Fubarius View Post
Now that's a mater of faith, now isn't it?
i bet i can name one person that has never done a physics problem

p.s. it doesn't matter if humans can't know all the variables, you have to argue that it is logically impossible to know all the variables.
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:39 PM #86
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i bet i can name one person that has never done a physics problem


How about doing a physics experiment from time to time?
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Old 04-17-2010, 01:43 PM #87
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How about doing a physics experiment from time to time?
hahaha
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:04 PM #88
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i bet i can name one person that has never done a physics problem
It's me, isn't it?
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:23 PM #89
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It's me, isn't it?
lol, look man, i got nothing against you, it's just you don't know jack **** about physics
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:37 PM #90
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this thread has drifted so far. but this isn't a great example, because if you knew all the variables you would still know what happened even if it was unclamped. statistics is just a field used for our ignorance. when we don't all the variables, we use statistics. (exempt that claim from quantum physics)
Well, define ignorance. Statistics are used to make predictions on ensembles of particles, where each particle has a known set of states. We choose our statistics based on the maximum amount of information we have on each of those states, and how that affects our ability to "keep track" of each particle.

So the question becomes: Can God keep track of the particles?

When we theoretically treat a group of identical particles as indistinguishable, we are able to make the theory align with what is measured in the lab. If we try to treat them as unique and distinguishable, the theory fails.

What I'm trying to say is, our theory doesn't determine whether or not we can keep track of the particles. The Universe itself cannot keep track of the particles. If it could, the system would behave differently on a macroscopic level.

So again, the question stands: can God keep track of the particles? And if he can, why doesn't it change the dynamics of the system?
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Old 04-17-2010, 02:39 PM #91
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Well, define ignorance. Statistics are used to make predictions on ensembles of particles, where each particle has a known set of states. We choose our statistics based on the maximum amount of information we have on each of those states, and how that affects our ability to "keep track" of each particle.

So the question becomes: Can God keep track of the particles?

When we theoretically treat a group of identical particles as indistinguishable, we are able to make the theory align with what is measured in the lab. If we try to treat them as unique and distinguishable, the theory fails.

What I'm trying to say is, our theory doesn't determine whether or not we can keep track of the particles. The Universe itself cannot keep track of the particles. If it could, the system would behave differently on a macroscopic level.

So again, the question stands: can God keep track of the particles?
i wouldn't have used the word god...not because i don't agree but half the people on here aren't going to get it
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Old 04-17-2010, 03:06 PM #92
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i wouldn't have used the word god...not because i don't agree but half the people on here aren't going to get it
Shhhh... you'll ruin it.
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Old 04-17-2010, 03:45 PM #93
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Shhhh... you'll ruin it.
i <3 u
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Old 04-17-2010, 07:06 PM #94
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tell me why i sholdn't think that
John 12:32 "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

Hebrews 10:10 "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

1 Tim 1:15 "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst."

1 Tim 2:3-4 "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"

2 Cor 5:14-15 "For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again."

1 Cor 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

So, IMO we are left with two options:

1) We all magically convert at the moment of our last breath because certainly not everyone believes in Jesus in this life.

or

2) We don't have only this life to get all the facts.

honestly, either one is sufficient for me. It sounds to me like the only ones who get damned, if any, are those who choose to follow the false messiah or whoever the bad guys are in Revelation, after being raised from the ****ing dead and seeing Jesus being all like "hey I'm the good guy".

At that point, well **** em.
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:14 PM #95
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John 12:32 "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

Hebrews 10:10 "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

1 Tim 1:15 "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst."

1 Tim 2:3-4 "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"

2 Cor 5:14-15 "For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again."

1 Cor 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

So, IMO we are left with two options:

1) We all magically convert at the moment of our last breath because certainly not everyone believes in Jesus in this life.

or

2) We don't have only this life to get all the facts.

honestly, either one is sufficient for me. It sounds to me like the only ones who get damned, if any, are those who choose to follow the false messiah or whoever the bad guys are in Revelation, after being raised from the ****ing dead and seeing Jesus being all like "hey I'm the good guy".

At that point, well **** em.
okay, good quotes. my question is, why even mention hell?
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Old 04-17-2010, 08:49 PM #96
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okay, good quotes. my question is, why even mention hell?
hell is mentioned a dozen times or so in the entire new testament, most of these times in different tellings of the same speeches.. Not exactly screaming it in your face. And it's discussed primarily as it was relevant to the Pharisees.

That's mostly why it was mentioned, because it was something the audience would have understood.

As I understand it, you aren't "saved from hell" if you work within Christianity in this lifetime, but "saved from the experience of not being in relationship with God". You get to chill with God and listen to what he has to offer and stuff. Your eternal soul isn't at stake, as it were. That doesn't make sense to me.
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Old 04-18-2010, 01:22 AM #97
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Originally Posted by hsilman View Post
John 12:32 "But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself."

Hebrews 10:10 "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."

1 Tim 1:15 "Here is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance: Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners—of whom I am the worst."

1 Tim 2:3-4 "This is good, and pleases God our Savior, who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth"

2 Cor 5:14-15 "For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again."

1 Cor 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive."

So, IMO we are left with two options:

1) We all magically convert at the moment of our last breath because certainly not everyone believes in Jesus in this life.

or

2) We don't have only this life to get all the facts.

honestly, either one is sufficient for me. It sounds to me like the only ones who get damned, if any, are those who choose to follow the false messiah or whoever the bad guys are in Revelation, after being raised from the ****ing dead and seeing Jesus being all like "hey I'm the good guy".

At that point, well **** em.
Nice post.
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hell is mentioned a dozen times or so in the entire new testament, most of these times in different tellings of the same speeches.. Not exactly screaming it in your face. And it's discussed primarily as it was relevant to the Pharisees.
Hell in the Bible is not a singular word, but FOUR words all translated in to one in English. And none of them have anything to do with the Lake of Fire described in Revelation.

Also, what the **** happened to this thread? First it was about Jesus' birth, then page 2 made no sense at all (seriously, what is that ****?), and then I read this page because I was so bored.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, 20 posts per page.
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