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Old 03-06-2010, 10:35 AM #1
AJ 210
 
 
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Atheism vs Deism

I recently have renounced my Catholic faith and have been diving into the wonders of Deism and self-reliance. Now that I have been questioning my faith and reading about Atheism, I find myself agreeing a lot with what they have to say. However, I still feel there is some divine presence among all humans that interconnects us all. I invite any atheist who would like convince me otherwise or recommend some literature. Please no Bible thumpers!
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Old 03-06-2010, 10:39 AM #2
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I recently have renounced my Catholic faith and have been diving into the wonders of Deism and self-reliance. Now that I have been questioning my faith and reading about Atheism, I find myself agreeing a lot with what they have to say. However, I still feel there is some divine presence among all humans that interconnects us all. I invite any atheist who would like convince me otherwise or recommend some literature. Please no Bible thumpers!
Are you saying you are not sure if you are an atheist or a deist?
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:10 AM #3
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Are you saying you are not sure if you are an atheist or a deist?
Yes I guess so!
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:10 AM #4
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The communal feeling of togetherness amongst humans has nothing to do with a divine being, it is a natural need to belong. In psychology the need to belong is falls under the need to be socially accepted in general.
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Old 03-06-2010, 01:33 PM #5
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Yes I guess so!
Do you really want to confine yourself to a label?
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Old 03-06-2010, 05:53 PM #6
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have u heard of agnosticism? If not, check this out http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQ...blag_index.htm
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Old 03-06-2010, 08:56 PM #7
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Do you really want to confine yourself to a label?
I'm not one for conformity, but I would like to know where i stand in this journey called life.
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Old 03-06-2010, 11:45 PM #8
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Quote:
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I'm not one for conformity, but I would like to know where i stand in this journey called life.
There's a good chance that it won't fall into one simple label.

While I'm not 100% sure about anything I currently believe I'm open to the possibility, and would bet on the probability, of the existence of a higher being while maintaining and trusting observable and testable science. When the urge to venerate said higher being strikes me (as it does from time to time) I prefer a public service with predictable ceremony performed by an organization with a well established hierarchy and a long historical precedent. I also find pipe organ music more theistically inspirational than guitar (guitar is more entertaining of course, but that's drifting from the topic).

So I could make a big list of -ist's that I think I am, and those I think I'm not (definitely NOT a Calvinist), but slapping a label on yourself tends to inhibit growth. Just start collecting ideas, the -ist's and -ism's will sort themselves out later.
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Old 03-07-2010, 12:08 AM #9
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Originally Posted by AJ 210 View Post
I recently have renounced my Catholic faith and have been diving into the wonders of Deism and self-reliance. Now that I have been questioning my faith and reading about Atheism, I find myself agreeing a lot with what they have to say. However, I still feel there is some divine presence among all humans that interconnects us all. I invite any atheist who would like convince me otherwise or recommend some literature. Please no Bible thumpers!
You'll never be done learning about divinity and your own beliefs. So as opposed to being so worried about what your label should be, continue to learn about philosophical and theological issues which are of interest to you. If an answer comes to you, great, but if not it's nothing unusual.
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Old 03-07-2010, 12:54 AM #10
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I'm not one for conformity, but I would like to know where i stand in this journey called life.
Why do you need someone else to tell you where you stand?
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Old 03-07-2010, 08:49 PM #11
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Dont let them conform you to being non-conformist!
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Old 03-07-2010, 10:21 PM #12
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This thread is ****ing retarded.

Stop trying to get an official description for yourself and just learn.
WOW unproductive
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Old 03-07-2010, 11:19 PM #13
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I'm not one for conformity, but I would like to know where i stand in this journey called life.
If you're here searching for a straight answer, an honest opinion? Than, based on your OP -- I would consider your present stance to be Atheistic in nature.
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Old 03-08-2010, 10:48 AM #14
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. However, I still feel there is some divine presence among all humans that interconnects us all. I invite any atheist who would like convince me otherwise or recommend some literature. Please no Bible thumpers!
You feel there is a divine presence. Do you have any evidence for this presence? If not, then it's not based on rational evaluation of evidence and cannot be proven or disproven. If you want someone's else's opinion you could read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins - he gives a his thoughts on why humans need to feel connected, etc.
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Old 03-08-2010, 02:34 PM #15
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Because you don't agree with it?

Re-think the way your life is going. Then come back here. For ****s sake, you're asking a bunch of random people to give you a label. Terrible.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:13 PM #16
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Because you don't agree with it?

Re-think the way your life is going. Then come back here. For ****s sake, you're asking a bunch of random people to give you a label. Terrible.
Please, he created a thread with the express intent of asking people who may have some understanding of theology to clarify something for him. It's a valid debate -- see Aaron5604's post as well as wavesport's.

I see nothing wrong with pointing out that labels are restrictive, but we shouldn't be so hostile.
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Old 03-08-2010, 04:42 PM #17
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You feel there is a divine presence. Do you have any evidence for this presence? If not, then it's not based on rational evaluation of evidence and cannot be proven or disproven. If you want someone's else's opinion you could read "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins - he gives a his thoughts on why humans need to feel connected, etc.


As for the people knocking him due to the fact that he is searching for a 'label'

First off he is searching for clarification on his beliefs (or lack thereof). For example one needs to be informed/know of things before they can agree with them or accept them as true (rationally). He seems that he has difficulty accepting any idea of a prime mover but senses that humans connect on a profound level, which they do. As for that there is a psychological and mental explanation, psychologically speaking in primitive terms, traveling solo often is endangering to someone's well being so one will search for 'friends' for protection and comradeship. Also one will search for a member of the opposite sex (primitive aspect) to procreate. The mental state is often involved with thought, for example; you are now theoretically connected to the people on this thread due to your inquiry which was a function of thought (application of your mind(which exemplifies ones mental will to progress)).

It is important to note that just because you (or anyone) fails to explain something, that does not suggest any divine existence. In the past people could not explain the tides and movements of the ocean, climate change, and a variety of other things that we now know and understand scientifically... People of that day and age accepted that multiple gods controlled these functions (what we know as greek mythology, all religions are mythology as they lack tangible justification)
Furthermore the question of how we all got here is no more suggestive of any prime mover then any other question that remains (or was) unanswered.

Lastly there is no such things as conforming to atheism as it is not a set of concrete ideals, there is no preached doctrine, no person accepted as the 'speaker for the masses'. It is one thing; the lack of a belief in any god or deity. Naturally that presupposes reason, logic, and a number of other things however it does not force one to accept those. His inquiry was of the nature of philosophical understanding therefore those of you bashing him are hypocrites... Any atheist had to consider the things he is currently considering at one point or another to rationally alter their belief system.
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Old 03-08-2010, 06:53 PM #18
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As for the people knocking him due to the fact that he is searching for a 'label'

First off he is searching for clarification on his beliefs (or lack thereof). For example one needs to be informed/know of things before they can agree with them or accept them as true (rationally). He seems that he has difficulty accepting any idea of a prime mover but senses that humans connect on a profound level, which they do. As for that there is a psychological and mental explanation, psychologically speaking in primitive terms, traveling solo often is endangering to someone's well being so one will search for 'friends' for protection and comradeship. Also one will search for a member of the opposite sex (primitive aspect) to procreate. The mental state is often involved with thought, for example; you are now theoretically connected to the people on this thread due to your inquiry which was a function of thought (application of your mind(which exemplifies ones mental will to progress)).

It is important to note that just because you (or anyone) fails to explain something, that does not suggest any divine existence. In the past people could not explain the tides and movements of the ocean, climate change, and a variety of other things that we now know and understand scientifically... People of that day and age accepted that multiple gods controlled these functions (what we know as greek mythology, all religions are mythology as they lack tangible justification)
Furthermore the question of how we all got here is no more suggestive of any prime mover then any other question that remains (or was) unanswered.

Lastly there is no such things as conforming to atheism as it is not a set of concrete ideals, there is no preached doctrine, no person accepted as the 'speaker for the masses'. It is one thing; the lack of a belief in any god or deity. Naturally that presupposes reason, logic, and a number of other things however it does not force one to accept those. His inquiry was of the nature of philosophical understanding therefore those of you bashing him are hypocrites... Any atheist had to consider the things he is currently considering at one point or another to rationally alter their belief system.
Where does transcendentalism fit in an Atheistic worldview? Or does it even fit?
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:14 PM #19
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Where does transcendentalism fit in an Atheistic worldview? Or does it even fit?
There really isn't an overarching atheist worldview. The only central belief is the lack of a belief in the existence of a deity. Beyond that, the details vary by the person.
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:19 PM #20
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There really isn't an overarching atheist worldview. The only central belief is the lack of a belief in the existence of a deity. Beyond that, the details vary by the person.
Exactly right.

You are more then likely to find Atheists reject the idea as it alludes to the supernatural.
It also degrades the power of the human mind placing some unexplainable higher power above it, that is an ideal I reject.
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Old 03-11-2010, 03:42 PM #21
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Before you spend a lot of time agonizing over what to believe, or what to call yourself, I suggest you ask yourself what practical purpose it will serve in your life.

If you can't answer that question in a cogent manner, they I suggest that you just enjoy your life and not worry about it.
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