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Old 02-18-2010, 02:52 AM #43
MaxPower1272
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APPA vs. NPPL wonder drug.

I would have to say hands down that APPA is very much on top of its system. Sure it is not perfect, but like Chris said, many records (including records from XPSL/NPPL in 08) were locked up in a box and thrown out to sea. Most "sand-bagging" players in the APPA system are players who were playing semi-pro, pro, d1 or d2 in NPPL between 2005-08.

The old NPPL system is also inferior because it did not properly deal with the "D4" classification or "new player classification".

APPA has the longest running history of continual record keeping in this sport. I have a lot of trouble understanding WHY the USPL/NPPL refuses to accept that APPA is the status quo in record keeping information. A primary factor in the demise of the original NPPL was its inability to retain records properly. APPA does a good and consistent job try to manage some 15,000 paintball team rosters and god knows how many players.

It is foolish to think in today's age where so many existing players are out floating around that developing a new system will do any good except further confuse players, owners and industry alike.

Keeping team signups a mystery is also bad for business. The USPL continues to look/act like a regional league in a time when it should be trying to build trust with players nationally, not just in california.

My 2 cents.
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Old 02-18-2010, 06:51 AM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPower1272 View Post

It is foolish to think in today's age where so many existing players are out floating around that developing a new system will do any good except further confuse players, owners and industry alike.

Yeah cause its so in the players and league owners best interest to have just ONE single entity that controlls the ratings for every league nationwide. There are several information technology solutions , but we should stick with just one you say , correct ....

Your argument is flawed for one simple reason .... Monopolization.

The truth is this .... if once a single entity is in control of ALL of the nations ranked players and leagues what is to stop them from say increasing prices , tightening regulations , selecting players who oppose them for denial , or in this case BASHING any league that decides to use another system other than theirs.....Bad Form .... I dont bash on my sponsors when they are not with me anymore , I simply thank them for their support.

Ticketmaster was like this. They put a great network in place to easily distribute tickets. Then they made ANY venue that had that system sell tickets through ticketmaster EXCLUSIVLY or risk losing the service.

When Ticketmaster realized the size of their market share was dominant they began raising prices and fees , basically making it impossible for any act to control the high prices of their shows. When the band Pearl Jam tried NOT to use their service they spent millions on degrading the band and warned any of their venues against holding a Pearl Jam concert. Pearl Jam ended up having to move their show to a private stadium ( Tad Gromly )

In the case of the AFL football league , the NFL thought very little of the AFL football league. It was just a bunch of guys that got together on tuesdays to drink beer. The NFL had its own system and if you didnt play by their rules you didnt play. It wasnt untill the AFL started to take a market share that the NFL had to take another look.

It was the AFL that brought us the long bomb pass , names on jerseys , big football stadiums , and Joe Namath. Without the competition the goal post would probably still be in the front of the end zone...... Eventually the NFL lost enough of its bottom line that they had to merge with the AFL..... Now should the AFL have just bowed to the NFL ?

My point is this ..... Competition breeds creativity and is healthy for the sport as a whole. When entities have competition it forces them to improve their product and controll their pricing in an effort to attract buisness.

I appreciate the brave effort by the NPPL to be in control of its own league !!! Us players really appreciate the CHOICE !
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Old 02-18-2010, 09:42 AM #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RevCain View Post
Yeah cause its so in the players and league owners best interest to have just ONE single entity that controlls the ratings for every league nationwide. ...
It's not about restricting competition. It's about having a standard, which the APPA provides. Via competition the APPA has risen to the top, there's a reason for that.

The NPPL going back to a closed system may help them, but how does it help anyone else? You can say it doesn't matter and they have no responsibility to anyone else and it's their prerogative, but I happen to play in a variety events at a variety of levels and a classification standard is is more important to me than helping one single league help themselves and no one else.

I love 7-man and I want there to be a healthy national league, but I feel very strongly that this is a bad move.
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Old 02-18-2010, 10:57 AM #46
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teams list i coming out soon anyways hes doing it by himself so its gonna take a little time.
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Old 02-23-2010, 02:22 PM #47
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please dont pull an "id-pro" again... just use appa.
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Old 02-23-2010, 05:18 PM #48
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Since appa is an open system it is easy to check the records on their system. Couldn't the NPPL just input that data into their system? I hope that the NPPL system is open and would show that data as well as the data from it' s own events. Seems like more work, to do that, but maybe the time spent doing that is less than the cost to use another system.
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Old 02-23-2010, 06:08 PM #49
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Access to the data in the APPA system is a two-way exchange. To get data from the system, a league must also put accurate records of their rosters into the system.

Thus if a league is not using the APPA system they do not have access to the data in the system either, as the ability to search data is limited to participating leagues. I wish it didn't have to be that way, but if leagues could use the data without contributing data, there very quickly wouldn't be any data for anyone to use.

The APPA system also includes a lot of pieces beyond just the data to make sure rosters are legal. Even if you had all the data, you still need software to take that data, determine a player's classification, check the roster, and do it effectively. With APPA, every player on every roster is checked every time the roster is submitted or changed. No other system does that.


Even if you have data about past participation, it doesn't do you any good if you don't know who the current players are. Right now, APPA is the only registration system in paintball that has a reliable process in place for making sure rosters are completed with enough information to identify all the players on the roster. Without such a process, all the past data in the world isn't going to help you if you're not comparing the right identities to it.


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Old 02-24-2010, 03:37 PM #50
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Old 02-24-2010, 07:19 PM #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raehl View Post
Access to the data in the APPA system is a two-way exchange. To get data from the system, a league must also put accurate records of their rosters into the system.

Thus if a league is not using the APPA system they do not have access to the data in the system either, as the ability to search data is limited to participating leagues. I wish it didn't have to be that way, but if leagues could use the data without contributing data, there very quickly wouldn't be any data for anyone to use.

The APPA system also includes a lot of pieces beyond just the data to make sure rosters are legal. Even if you had all the data, you still need software to take that data, determine a player's classification, check the roster, and do it effectively. With APPA, every player on every roster is checked every time the roster is submitted or changed. No other system does that.


Even if you have data about past participation, it doesn't do you any good if you don't know who the current players are. Right now, APPA is the only registration system in paintball that has a reliable process in place for making sure rosters are completed with enough information to identify all the players on the roster. Without such a process, all the past data in the world isn't going to help you if you're not comparing the right identities to it.


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Old 02-24-2010, 07:54 PM #52
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Almost 100% Frank is cross referencing the APPA database discretely against his own registrants. Or at least if he was smart he would...

What SHOULD happen is the NPPL should get their marketing and graphics guy to redo the psp website and appa interface (which are both complete eyesores). Do a fair trade-out. The NPPL gets to use APPA and the APPA gets something you don't have to brown bag every time you look at it.
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Old 02-24-2010, 08:57 PM #53
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Almost 100% Frank is cross referencing the APPA database discretely against his own registrants. Or at least if he was smart he would...

What SHOULD happen is the NPPL should get their marketing and graphics guy to redo the psp website and appa interface (which are both complete eyesores). Do a fair trade-out. The NPPL gets to use APPA and the APPA gets something you don't have to brown bag every time you look at it.

lol!
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Old 02-24-2010, 09:25 PM #54
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Almost 100% Frank is cross referencing the APPA database discretely against his own registrants.
There is no effective way to do that unless you are a league participating in the system.

I agree the APPA site is not, shall we say, pretty. Pretty was never the primary design consideration.

But, the APPA site also doesn't require Flash to use either.

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Old 02-24-2010, 11:39 PM #55
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I can appreciate that. But it doesn't take completely re-engineering the site to make it more intuitive. Everything you're doing and have done is awesome Chris and I don't understand why the NPPL wouldn't want to use the APPA.

I'm just saying besides database entry there's no reason why it should be taking this long by the NPPL to hash out a list of registered teams for HB.

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they said on the webcast last night it will be up some time next week. so figure april 7th.
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Old 02-25-2010, 01:51 AM #56
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i dont see whats wrong with the APPA site lol

they kept it really simple and everything is easy to locate for the most part. id prefer it to be basic and simple.
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Old 02-25-2010, 03:29 AM #57
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im still tryna figure out how the **** you register your team lol....
so we email this guy to get a application!?

idk but appa is pretty much self explanatory...simple.
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Old 02-25-2010, 07:21 AM #58
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they are saying all these teams are signing up..

i wanna see a list of teams that are signd up and paid.

Our team was going to play D1.. so i can care less about "sandbagging".. i just want to see a list of teams that are going to play D1...

i mean for west coast teams its not that much of a gamble.. they can drive to the event.. for East Coast teams like us.. we have to actually buy an airfare and get a rental car.. these things add up.. and dont want to get to an event and only have 4 teams in d1.. it would be a waste of money for us to do that. considering that prizes are a percentage of how many teams are signed up....
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Old 02-25-2010, 11:43 AM #59
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WOW after reading thru this.....the guy from APPA seems like a Tool.....he is cryin because NPPL/USPL is not using them anymore

i'm sad about losing the badges...but i think frank and everyone at NPPL knows what their doing

i imagine APPA has a complex about it's self and prob want ALOT of money for its service

so NPPL decided to go another route..saving money i bet for them and us...sure its probably alot more work for them ...but i bet it's better in the long run
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Old 02-25-2010, 04:56 PM #60
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Old 02-25-2010, 06:35 PM #61
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Quote:
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they are saying all these teams are signing up..

i wanna see a list of teams that are signd up and paid.

Our team was going to play D1.. so i can care less about "sandbagging".. i just want to see a list of teams that are going to play D1...

i mean for west coast teams its not that much of a gamble.. they can drive to the event.. for East Coast teams like us.. we have to actually buy an airfare and get a rental car.. these things add up.. and dont want to get to an event and only have 4 teams in d1.. it would be a waste of money for us to do that. considering that prizes are a percentage of how many teams are signed up....

heres all your info

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3322594
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Old 02-26-2010, 09:23 AM #62
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team list has been released.
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