[Seekey]

Oh no another "Phantom Clone"!!!! That one even uses the same 12 gram Changer!!!!

[Curly Fry]

diggin the bottom one

[Dustinkwon]

damn thats tight

[1cheeselova]

Originally Posted by Gary

Ahh you can certainly tell we're on pbnation. You could indeed buy two phantoms for the price of the Gargoyle, but why not stick to what you know and buy a Cyborg RX, or an Ego 9 since they lose half their value as soon as you shoot them. If this was a high end electronic marker you would all be pitchin tents in your huggies. You kids (and some adults) just arnt open minded enough to consider that this does cost quite a lot to manufacture. Its really sad.

it's because more people want electronic guns...

lets say the Gargoyle was as popular as the Luxe, the price would be effected the same way

[Sinkhole]

Originally Posted by Seekey

and you would have 2 production markers rather than 1 hand crafted one. Because its hand crafted does that make it better? Maybe it does and maybe it doesn't. It's proven that a machine can hold tighter tolerances from piece to piece than a human. I would be more likely to buy a hand fitted marker than a hand crafted marker.

Sinkhole, your just trying to get a rise out of people....and doing a pretty good job it seems. No, I'm not. I didn't start this. I merely made the comment in post #80 that you could buy 2 Phantoms for that price. The next thing I know I'm getting crucified for making that comment. Seems that I wasn't the one trying to get a rise out of people.

That's just my 2 cents worth. I also think it's kind of funny that many others have made similar comments about pricing and they've been ignored.

Just to be clear when did ever say anything negative about this marker. I only stated that you could buy 2 Phantoms for the price of 1 Gargoyle. This is a fact, not a negative comment. I also stated that it was a Phantom clone which is obvious. It has interchangable parts. Thats not negative either.

[spherepb82]

Where are these guys based out of?

[Gogged_Gurl]

Originally Posted by ghost271

Why the hell would somebody pay $600 for a Phantom clone ? The guys making these things obviously didnt have the smarts to design a gun of their own so they copy one and put a different grip frame on it ?

Buy a Phantom and get it anno'd for half the price of one of these. You'd also be supporting Mike Cassidy, the inventor and engineer of the gun these guys are trying to copy.

seriously?

its not a phantom clone in any way and is completely different if you read up a bit before making such a ignorant statment maybe you would know that?

mike CASADY did not invent the nelson or the stock class gun and in fact the phantom was crucified as a "clone" on its release, "these guys" is 1 guy who has the full support of mike thats why you will find mikes products used in the design.

I also stated that it was a Phantom clone which is obvious.

not obvious in any way,its not a clone at all. please refer to the deffinition of clone. and research stock class guns and the history of paintball.

milled from a solid block the feed block removes with no tools to expose the body










body is cocker threaded,this is the phantom to cocker adaptor wich is tripple detented.



machine work on feedcap and o-ring slot



ASA threaded back cap for instant valve spring and insert changes,inserts can be had for phantom valve springs or madman cocker length springs




dual railed internally delrin bushed handle uses multiple bushing sizes for different barrel OD's

[flyingmachine]

all the people calling it a phantom clone really only cares about how the gun looks and not the guts. Personally, I prefer this over a Carter for about the same price.

[ghost271]

Well first off I will eat crow as I had not seen the internals. I was ignorant on taking it at face value and assuming the internal design was the same as the Phantom. After seeing your pics, there are enough changes to say that it looks like it was built off a Phantom 'platform' buy with several improvements.
In regards to following the history of paintball, I've been following it since it's inception and still have the first issue of APG that I bought back in 1986/87.

From reading the first initial posts I thought the gun was simply a Phantom with cocker threads. I apologize for my ignorance.

[ikey]

anyone bashing cause its a phantom clone doesnt know a thing about pump.

really, its a phantom type gun (nelson) or a cocker type gun (95% of everything else).

doesnt matter what it is, its the function and features.

a psycho ballistics pump will NOT be a CCM t2.

a phantom with NOT be a gargoyle. end of discussion.

this gun has so many features it blows a carter and a phantom out of the water in that reguard. it is the CCM T2 of the stock class world.

note: i didnt say better. i said it by far has the most features. carter are still top quality and performance and phantoms are a benchmark in the stock class world.

ps- that at the top of the page is a lapco grey ghost, and they are sick pump guns.

[Snowdawgy]

If you own one (as I do #9) and you use it, and a phantom as your tourney marker, then you can not even compare the two. This is not a phantom clone or knock off, and it is possibly one of the best made markers I have ever owned, and there have been a few that I have owned since 1988. As for price some of you are ones to talk considering what I have seen tourney players pay for a "one of a kind anno" or "special limited goggle strap pattern" I mean you pay crazy money for a damned strap, this is a custom built piece of working art.


I let the marker speak for itself and just look at the price of a fully custom buzzard for comparison.

My beast:

[Erik Hellhammer]

I like it, hopefully it's reasonably priced.

[RogueShooter]

Oh man, its a Garg with a six-pack.... Now thats just hot...

[xluben]

I'd rather see more open class pumps

[warbeak2099]

Originally Posted by xluben

I'd rather see more open class pumps

Agreed. I'm still sick of the noobs on here calling this a Phantom clone when the Phantom is in fact a "clone" itself. If you honestly think that any nelson based gun is just a Phantom, you're a moron.

[Braddoc]

Looks very nice.

Thanks for the pics of the internals, too.

I wish I could justify spending 625 on a pump.

well. I wish I could justify spending 625 on ANYTHING at this point in my life (damn college tuition).

[only4theweak187]

alright where can i get the black/green one?

[Gogged_Gurl]

there are literally hundreds of open class options,i think theres enough.

Originally Posted by only4theweak187

alright where can i get the black/green one?

you get in touch with rodney at

http://www.phlaunt.com/remembertheronin/

[RTR2006]

Originally Posted by ghost271

Well first off I will eat crow as I had not seen the internals.
I was ignorant on taking it at face value and assuming the internal design was the same
as the Phantom. After seeing your pics, there are enough changes to say that it looks like
it was built off a Phantom 'platform' buy with several improvements.
In regards to following the history of paintball, I've been following it since it's inception
and still have the first issue of APG that I bought back in 1986/87.

From reading the first initial posts I thought the gun was simply a Phantom with cocker threads.
I apologize for my ignorance.

Glad to see an open mind. There are always opinions on things and every one of them is welcomed.

Now you see that the Gargoyle is its own marker. I will say this however, certain dimensions where
in fact taken into consideration from the Phantom for obvious reasons. I wanted to make available
some of the neater features of the Gargoyle to people that have Phantoms. IE. the sliding trigger or
the valve body.

The Clone wars really began in the late 80's with numerous variations of the Nelson design. Many of
you still have these markers such as the SI markers, Razorbacks, Bloodsuckers, Reblines etc etc. One
thing about most of the paintball family is that sharing concepts never really bothers us.
There are exceptions in everything.

Cost of the Gargoyle. Well……..it is what it is. Manufacturing costs being what they are it’s unavoidable.
The man hours are very high and the production is very low. If many of you knew how much each gun
actually costs to make you would advise me to just quit now. But what’s the fun in that.

Most importantly, it is great to see pump back in force. The electro markers are awesome also but it’s nice
to be able to visit the past and share the future with fellow players that have taken paintball to a much higher level.