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Old 09-21-2009, 04:32 PM #1
doc92
 
 
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HAVOC FAQs

Seems like there's been a few questions on here lately about the Havoc so I thought I'd share some of what I've learned about the three launchers I've bought from Metadyne. Pre-sale up to the current production model.

O-rings:
The larger oring on the reg is a ~012 and the smaller one is a ~006. The larger oring is the one that blows out through the bottom of the valve when the reg is turned up too high for the launcher. ~300psi The black buna o-rings(shipped with the launchers) are the ones that are failing. Their durometer rating is too low. They have replacement teflon orings. The teflon orings work great. No problems so far. Here's the site for the 90 durometer orings: www.oringsandmore.com

O-ring troubleshooting:
If you have one of the presale launchers you need to look where the relief hole was drilled on the bottom of the reg(where the oring blows out) and clean out any burrs or sharp edges. My launcher would cut the buna orings almost every time I gassed it up. I cleaned up the relief hole and I'm now using the teflon orings with no problem. Those buna orings were horrible about mushrooming. If the launcher gasses up, leaks, but still fires, it's the larger oring. If it gasses up with no leak and the trigger does nothing then the rear oring has mushroomed and locks up the reg.
For the folks who bought the presale Havoc. Be sure to keep the regulator pin orings well lubricated. If not, then the two smaller orings will begin to bind up in the opening and will not allow the Havoc to shoot or cycle. You will know when you need more oil/vaseline when the launcher pauses for a second before firing AFTER you pull the trigger. Just means the orings are starting to bind up and if you continue holding down the trigger the oring will blow out. But with sufficient oil, the presale Havoc can shoot like new.
The newer versions of the Havoc DO NOT have this issue. The passage for the regulator pin is slightly larger on the newer version and will not bind like the presale ones.

Velocity:
I've been chronoed many times on the field with the Havoc. Most fields use the GSRP rules for nerfs so 230fps is the limit. The stock Havoc with the regulator set to just before the large oring blows out will max out around 140-145fps. I don't recommend keeping the pressure that high, the buna oring will just fail sooner. However, most players are complaining they got hit from longer range than possible...this just shows the accuracy of the Havoc and the skill of the gunner.

Velocity tip/trick:
If you really want a bit more velocity out of your Havoc. There's a simple and relatively cheap way to do it. When you fire your stock barreled Havoc, you'll notice quite a bit of extra air comes out of the barrel after the nerf exits. Physics 101:Why not let the extra air push the nerf for a slightly longer time and distance to increase velocity. Metadyne sells the breach load kit and the barrel extensions. I bought three of the 4" extensions when Metadyne had them in stock. I have both the handheld radar chrono and one of the big red chronographs to eliminate any errors in the velocity. The two chronographs never had more than 1 fps difference.

Testing Method: I had both chronos set up to read the fps of each shot simultaneously. I fired 5 new nerfs with trimmed fins at each of the different barrel lengths. The regulator was never changed after the baseline stock barrel fps was averaged.

Test results: (these are the averages of the fps of 5 shots)
Stock Barrel: 136fps
Stock Barrel plus one 4" extension: 152fps
Stock Barrel plus two 4" extensions: 162fps
Stock Barrel plus three 4" extensions: 190fps

I first thought the three extensions at 190fps was a fluke so I fired about 10 more nerfs and each one was either 190 or 191 on the chronos. I round down so I don't inflate the numbers. Also, the 190fps looks like a freakin laser compared to the 136fps. lol

Not the most scientific test but it should help people get an idea of how their Havoc could perform.

Conclusion:
Great launcher but the new valves are huge improvements over the presale ones. The extra relief valve on the front of the body was removed. The oring blows out LONG before that valve would have ever activated. The relief hole is much smoother and less likely to cut orings. There is now a stop in the valve body to keep the safety from falling out of the frame if you push it too far. Very annoying to have the safety fall onto the floor of a moving tank. I keep my regulators set where the slot in the regulator is even with the body.

I am in no way affiliated with Metadyne. I sell the DoubleTrouble and Quadzilla kits. I just got tired of field owners questioning my homemade launchers and having to create replacement parts when things broke on them. I also could never get my homemade launchers to recharge as fast as the Havoc.

Doc

Almost forgot. The scenario dreams rockets are listed as good for practice and for close range shots. The owner of the tank I was in at the Hades factor scenario bought 40 of the scenario dreams rockets. The rockets were usually good for one time through the barrel. 90-95% of the time, all the fins fell off the rocket on the first shot. They need much stronger glue on the fins. And close range shots=less than 8-10 feet away. The rockets are slightly smaller diameter than the standard nerfs and don't seal very well in the 2" barrel. You can put a little tape around the waist of the football and it helps a bit but accuracy was not helped. The rockets are also much lighter than the nerf rockets and therefore will travel MUCH less distance than the standard nerfs. One cool thing about the Scenario Dreams rockets: I have now seen a rocket do a 90 degree right turn in midair. Very cool to see but not too effective unless you're trying to shoot around corners. Also scares the heck out of the refs. lol

Last edited by doc92 : 01-08-2012 at 08:43 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 09-21-2009, 04:40 PM #2
FredX4
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Thanks for the info. I was wondering if it was worth buying the barrel ext, now I've got to wait for them to make more. I've got the presale Havoc & have the same o-ring issues but I think I made the hole too big in the process of cleaning it up. I got o-rings from Oringmonkey.com & that fixed most of the problems.
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Old 09-21-2009, 04:45 PM #3
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Almost forgot. The scenario dreams rockets are listed as good for practice and for close range shots. The owner of the tank I was in at the Hades factor scenario bought 40 of the scenario dreams rockets. The rockets were usually good for one time through the barrel. 90-95% of the time, all the fins fell off the rocket on the first shot. They need much stronger glue on the fins. And close range shots=less than 8-10 feet away. The rockets are slightly smaller diameter than the standard nerfs and don't seal very well in the 2" barrel. You can put a little tape around the waist of the football and it helps a bit but accuracy was not helped. The rockets are also much lighter than the nerf rockets and therefore will travel MUCH less distance than the standard nerfs. One cool thing about the Scenario Dreams rockets: I have now seen a rocket do a 90 degree right turn in midair. Very cool to see but not too effective unless you're trying to shoot around corners. Also scares the heck out of the refs. lol
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:02 PM #4
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Are those the first batch of Rockets from Scenario Dreams? He had new ones made a couple of months ago that were suppose to be better than his first batch which was harder foam head. While the new ones are more like the Nerf Foam. Not seen the new ones yet. Wondering if anyone used them yet.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:43 PM #5
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The ones we had were ordered about four weeks ago.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:58 PM #6
FredX4
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I had some from the first batch & they were horrible. They flew at all angles & couldn't hit anything past 40 to 50 ft & like he said they didn't last more than 1 shot but my dog enjoys them!
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Old 09-22-2009, 09:11 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc92 View Post
Almost forgot. The scenario dreams rockets are listed as good for practice and for close range shots. The owner of the tank I was in at the Hades factor scenario bought 40 of the scenario dreams rockets. The rockets were usually good for one time through the barrel. 90-95% of the time, all the fins fell off the rocket on the first shot. They need much stronger glue on the fins. And close range shots=less than 8-10 feet away. The rockets are slightly smaller diameter than the standard nerfs and don't seal very well in the 2" barrel. You can put a little tape around the waist of the football and it helps a bit but accuracy was not helped. The rockets are also much lighter than the nerf rockets and therefore will travel MUCH less distance than the standard nerfs. One cool thing about the Scenario Dreams rockets: I have now seen a rocket do a 90 degree right turn in midair. Very cool to see but not too effective unless you're trying to shoot around corners. Also scares the heck out of the refs. lol
Like Doc said I got these one week before labor day weekend. I wish I had spent the money on the real things. I tried to give them to the other side to shoot but they wouldn't take them either. Two thumbs down on these rockets.
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Old 09-25-2009, 11:29 AM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doc92 View Post
Seems like there's been a few questions on here lately about the Havoc so I thought I'd share some of what I've learned about the three launchers I've bought from Metadyne. Pre-sale up to the current production model.

O-rings:
The larger oring on the reg is a ~011 and the smaller one is a ~006. The larger oring is the one that blows out through the bottom of the valve when the reg is turned up too high for the launcher. ~300psi The black buna o-rings(shipped with the launchers) are the ones that are failing. Their durometer rating is too low. They have replacement teflon orings. The teflon orings work great. No problems so far.

O-ring troubleshooting:
If you have one of the presale launchers you need to look where the relief hole was drilled on the bottom of the reg(where the oring blows out) and clean out any burrs or sharp edges. My launcher would cut the buna orings almost every time I gassed it up. I cleaned up the relief hole and I'm now using the teflon orings with no problem. Those buna orings were horrible about mushrooming. If the launcher gasses up, leaks, but still fires, it's the larger oring. If it gasses up with no leak and the trigger does nothing then the rear oring has mushroomed and locks up the reg.

Velocity:
I've been chronoed many times on the field with the Havoc. Most fields use the GSRP rules for nerfs so 230fps is the limit. The stock Havoc with the regulator set to just before the large oring blows out will max out around 140-145fps. I don't recommend keeping the pressure that high, the buna oring will just fail sooner. However, most players are complaining they got hit from longer range than possible...this just shows the accuracy of the Havoc and the skill of the gunner.

Velocity tip/trick:
If you really want a bit more velocity out of your Havoc. There's a simple and relatively cheap way to do it. When you fire your stock barreled Havoc, you'll notice quite a bit of extra air comes out of the barrel after the nerf exits. Physics 101:Why not let the extra air push the nerf for a slightly longer time and distance to increase velocity. Metadyne sells the breach load kit and the barrel extensions. I bought three of the 4" extensions when Metadyne had them in stock. I have both the handheld radar chrono and one of the big red chronographs to eliminate any errors in the velocity. The two chronographs never had more than 1 fps difference.

Testing Method: I had both chronos set up to read the fps of each shot simultaneously. I fired 5 new nerfs with trimmed fins at each of the different barrel lengths. The regulator was never changed after the baseline stock barrel fps was averaged.

Test results: (these are the averages of the fps of 5 shots)
Stock Barrel: 136fps
Stock Barrel plus one 4" extension: 152fps
Stock Barrel plus two 4" extensions: 162fps
Stock Barrel plus three 4" extensions: 190fps

I first thought the three extensions at 190fps was a fluke so I fired about 10 more nerfs and each one was either 190 or 191 on the chronos. I round down so I don't inflate the numbers. Also, the 190fps looks like a freakin laser compared to the 136fps. lol

Not the most scientific test but it should help people get an idea of how their Havoc could perform.

Conclusion:
Great launcher but the new valves are huge improvements over the presale ones. The extra relief valve on the front of the body was removed. The oring blows out LONG before that valve would have ever activated. The relief hole is much smoother and less likely to cut orings. There is now a stop in the valve body to keep the safety from falling out of the frame if you push it too far. Very annoying to have the safety fall onto the floor of a moving tank. I keep my regulators set where the slot in the regulator is even with the body.

I am in no way affiliated with Metadyne. I sell the DoubleTrouble and Quadzilla kits. I just got tired of field owners questioning my homemade launchers and having to create replacement parts when things broke on them. I also could never get my homemade launchers to recharge as fast as the Havoc.

Doc
We have one mounted on a Smart Parts SP1, this thing is awesome. Metadyne is awesome, they have lifetime warranty on their products.
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Old 10-26-2009, 11:10 AM #9
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Hey Doc just a couple quick questions. It looks like if you add an another 4in extenter based on your chrono tests you should be able to reach or get pretty close to the 230 fps field limit. Also did you measure the distance the rocket traveled with each extention. I would be curious to know how much greater the distance was with each extender.
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Old 10-29-2009, 01:42 AM #10
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Another extension may increase the velocity further but Metadyne didn't have anymore.
The distance would definitely increase along with the velocity. If you already have a launcher, fire it at different FPS settings and check the range at 45 degrees up-angle. Should be very close or the same distance as the Havoc.
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Old 10-29-2009, 08:14 PM #11
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Wouldn't you almost have a 2 foot barrel with all those extensions? The high velocity doesn't matter if you are still getting a good range. So what if the HAVOC doesn't shoot as high of a velocity as the JCS launcher or others. The Havoc gets better range anyway. We shoot ours with the stock pressure of 200 psi (I had a gauge installed by metadyne) and it went 100 yards at a 45 degree angle. The breech load kit wouldn't work so hot with a 2 foot barrel either, lol.
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:24 AM #12
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Im thinking in terms of tank mounted. If you want to maximize the range a 2ft launcher in a tank really isnt all that big. Stock I can get about 100 yrds off my launcher as stated but what I was wondering is if it was 2ft long would I get a grreater distance like say 150?
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Old 11-20-2009, 05:40 PM #13
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Anybody have an issue with theirs where the stock screw will not screw all the way no matter what you try at the stock wobbles around on you?
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:10 AM #14
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Yup I had that problem. I accidentally stripped out the threads just like you have done. Easy fix is to have somebody or yourself helicoil the threads. Mine holds tight now.
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Old 12-05-2009, 04:38 PM #15
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Two options before stripping the threads. First is to cut the screw a bit with a dremel type tool, second is to put a washer or two under the head of the screw. The other problem I have had is other screws working loose. I need to use Loctite on those threads.
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Old 03-04-2010, 10:36 AM #16
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Small update: For the folks who bought the presale Havoc. Be sure to keep the regulator pin orings well lubricated. If not, then the two smaller orings will begin to bind up in the opening and will not allow the Havoc to shoot or cycle. You will know when you need more oil/vaseline when the launcher pauses for a second before firing AFTER you pull the trigger. Just means the orings are starting to bind up and if you continue holding down the trigger the oring will blow out. But with sufficient oil, the presale Havoc can shoot like new.
The newer versions of the Havoc DO NOT have this issue. The passage for the regulator pin is slightly larger on the newer version and will not bind like the presale ones.

Last edited by doc92 : 03-04-2010 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 03-10-2010, 10:37 PM #17
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Any air/CO2 usage data based on experience? E.g. 12 shots from a 13CI 3000 psi.
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Old 03-11-2010, 06:29 AM #18
FredX4
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I get about 7 or 8 shots from a 13ci tank.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:01 AM #19
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My experience 8 is average for a 13ci.
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Old 03-11-2010, 08:27 AM #20
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I get about 7 or 8 shots from a 13ci tank.
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My experience 8 is average for a 13ci.
Thanks, looks like a 22ci may be a better route for me then.
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Old 03-11-2010, 10:59 AM #21
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What is the open area length on a stock havoc between the front of the trigger guard and the tip of the barrel. I.e, if I were to mount a tank under the launcher tube how much space do I have?
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