Spacer body and spacers ?

M.I_killer · 10-26-2009, 08:29 PM

So i get that it increases efficiency and can change sound signature but how do they do with paint ? spacer kit make it harder on paint ?

Spazdoc · 10-26-2009, 09:09 PM

In general, if you decrease the volume of the chamber, you will use less volume (increased efficiency) and require a higher pressure (louder, more kick, harder on paint). The question is if the higher pressure will realistically result in more breaks, or just theoretically.

M.I_killer · 10-26-2009, 09:17 PM

ahhhh i see.

karni951357 · 10-27-2009, 04:40 PM

Where do these spacers go? I have the body one and the blue tip in, but what about those other four?

MstrKey · 10-27-2009, 05:31 PM

I think on any gun without an LPR the higher pressure will result in more ball cracks in the stack.

FrmrSpecialist · 10-28-2009, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MstrKey

I think on any gun without an LPR the higher pressure will result in more ball cracks in the stack.

I would say more pressure on the ball.. but not more ball cracks.. I think the difference seen on the ball is often minimal

who was it... I think tom kaye that did the testing that the approximate force seen on a paintball out of any given platform is about 80 psi..

now if you have other techonological developments such as soft face bolts and such the pressure on the ball becomes even more minimized. Now the great thing about the NT bolt is that is actually has a dual stage firing cycle..much like a level 10 automag. where there is very little exposed acting surface area during the first part of the travel and then a higher amount after a certain distance is traveled.. essentially making the bolt have a nice soft start of the firing cycle and then a rapid inscrease in speed.

MstrKey · 10-28-2009, 08:33 PM

Well it's been proven by jack wood and his high speed photography that the second ball in the stack is what get's cracked, not the ball being shot. That's why hoppers with little or no tension on the stack are superior when shooting brittle paint. It gives the paint some where to deflect away from the bolt impact, rather than absorbing it. That's why a low running LPR is better on brittle paint than one running high. It's almost imposible to break the ball being shot with bolt force, that's true.

A gun without an LPR has more bolt force on it. It's not usually a problem using durable paint, it is when trying to shoot anything brittle. Higher pressure means more energy for stack impacts. Soft face bolts really do nothing but line up the stack better, which prevents the next ball from being cracked/clipped.

Granted the NT has that two stage operation which helps, but higher pressure is still going to be worse on paint than lower.

FrmrSpecialist · 10-29-2009, 03:04 AM

Well perhaps jack wood's tests were a bit biased because they overbore thier breach? There could be a number of reason *His* test showed that *HIS* new upgrade is well worth the money [/sarcasm]
Now I understand the reason for them not doing this to other markers (because thier bolt isn't made for other markers). But really I would have shown that the reason for the bolt was to solve a universal problem.. not just an isolated problem thier markers have engineered (sp?) into them. Also did you notice the extremely high end paint being used in the first part of the test compared to the crap paint that can't break if you step on it used in the later vids?

Also a soft face bolt doesn't only line up the stack better, it diverts energy away from a hard solid surface and the ball. Simple physics that each force or action has an equal and opposite reaction.. so you push on a wall at 30lbs of force, the wall essentially pushes back at 30lbs of force. When a bolt hits the ball, the ball pushes back on the bolt, but now because the bolt has the ability to absorb that force, the force is diminished.

Either way I will say yes the raised hpr will have *AN* effect, but I would say an unnoticable one. So don't worry about it, it is a moot point (especially given the dual stage cycle).

MstrKey · 10-29-2009, 11:22 PM

Well I'm not going to argue the paint they used in the test was a bit fishy, but you can clearly see the ball in the stack being cracked. PE isn't the first company to come up with a cure style bolt. There are many variations out there that do the same thing. There are also a lot of pillow style bolts that prevent the problem in a different way, by lining up the stack. Bolt hitting the loaded ball is never a problem.

For example.......take any gun......drop one ball in , let it settle and try to crack that ball by cycling the bolt forward(manually or shooting). It just won't happen. If the ball was prevented from moving, then yes the bolt would crack it, but the ball can actually move away from the bolt so the amount of energy imparted is only the amount needed to actually move the ball into the barrel. You'd have to have a pretty heavy and fast moving bolt to break the ball this way. Stacked balls however, are prevented from moving away so they take the full force of the impact in a shearing angle.
The only way you'll really break paint by one ball loading is if you crank the velocity so high the ball can't withstand the sudden stress from the air.

Regardless, most spoolers run at such low pressures the bolts don't have a lot of energy behind them anyway. Higher pressure is worse, but as you said it's not a dramatic change.