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Old 10-08-2009, 09:31 AM #22
SnoWolf79
 
 
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If my ignorance in this matter shows then please accept my apologies...

I have managed to acquire a few markers since I started playing not too long ago and I've been mulling over the concept and potential of the 50 cal round...

two of my markers have regulators and are the original factory fitted ones so they don't go all the way to 0 psi like some after market regs do...

Considering the above my question is as follows...

If the .50 is where we are headed and the marker mods/inserts allow me to use the .50 paintball and considering that the improved efficiency means that it needs less psi to fire the new .50 it means I have to chrono down, will the be possible on a stock reg that's limited to a minimum psi?

And

Will the bolt still be able to cycle if the 300fps related psi is below the marker stated operating pressure?

(These are some practical questions and if the don't belong here will a mod please move them to an appropriate section.)
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:06 AM #23
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Chances are rental's will not recieve a conversion kit. The vast stock is paid off, if fields like the .50 paint they'll replace their stock with .50 markers. If you've ever seen how a field manages their markers you'll understand why a conversion process is pretty unrealistic and why they wouldn't buy conversion kits from the base manufacturer in the first place. The savings on their end would have to be incredibly substantial to drop afew grand to replace rental gear when it's already paid off and rec paint already very cheap.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:46 AM #24
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I don't understand why they are making this push into .50 cal. I could see if they were looking for a way to bump up their profit margins for fields and stores, but then why would they leak the information saying it was cheaper to produce. As a consumer with that knowledge I would feel slighted if I know I'm being ripped off. They could at least be honest with us and just put a mark-up on .68 cal and say "sorry, but we need to sell paint at this price to stay alive." That seems a lot more reasonable then creating a whole new market...
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:07 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackrain7557 View Post
I think what a lot of people are missing is the equipment that goes into making a paintball. The .68 caliber machines are probably already payed off if not close to it. So costs for them are going to be as little as they can right now besides ingredients.

But to switch platforms over to .50 caliber paintballs is going to take a lot more than conversion kits. It means new machines, techniques, ingredients etc. That means a lot of money that the industry has to spend to start producing them. That also means a lot of savings won't be passed on until it goes mainstream.


ALSO

Now they would more than likely start having to manufacture both types of paintballs which leads to even more costs. So how in reality does this help us save any money at all.
It's not like those softgel machines can only make capsules in .68 caliber. Get a clue on how industry works and then comment.
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:20 PM #26
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actually, if companies are going to make both calibers, what he said is right. they either cut their output of one at the expense of the other, or buy new machines, at the very least they'll have to re-tool current machines, and since .50 is supposed to have a thinner shell and denser fill than a .68, they'll need new ingredients as well. it's not as easy as swapping in a new set of dies, you have to worry about drying the paint so it ends up at the right size, how the shell and fill affect that process, probably have to mess with feed rates and such, so there's a bunch of R&D that would have to go into a changeover. he's right that we won't see a decrease in cost until production comes up to a mainstream level, and until that point, companies have to either keep the sale price up or eat the cost, and they don't make enough money as it is to be able to do that, much less do it with 2 sizes of paint. the only way we'll actually save from this is if .50 goes mainstream (more than just tournaments, too) and if the trickle-down effect decides to work in our favor.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:13 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapier7 View Post
It's not like those softgel machines can only make capsules in .68 caliber. Get a clue on how industry works and then comment.
I have a very good idea of what I'm talking about, regardless if the current machines can or cannot make .50 caliber balls they cannot do it without some serious changes. Softgel machines can make just about anything, but with our entire industry focused on .68 caliber paintballs the change over to .50 caliber would be huge and costly.

The .68 molds would have to be changed out, fills worked out, shells redeveloped, etc. Lots of cost and time that would have to be passed on to the consumer. There's a lot of things that go into making a paintball and currently we are focused on one particular size, and method.

Last edited by Blackrain7557 : 10-08-2009 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:20 PM #28
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But it's not that drastic, tooling is pretty pricey and getting the process down will take time, especially the injection but it's too early to tell what the differences in the formula's will be. But the largest expenditure will be the tooling that forms the balls, if the tooling is large enough it could cost up near $100k. As far as implamentation it depends on capabilities, if they have the machines they may run 2 different processes and run longer to make up for the loss of extra equipment, or they could try and changing tooling which probably isn't the ideal set-up but it's up to the companies to figure that out.
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Old 10-08-2009, 03:33 PM #29
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Well I'm sure paint companies have already consulted with other companies that make 50cal. Also what some may not realize is that this goes quite a few years back. Companies didn't just start talking 50cal this year. From what some people whom have tested the 50cal have indicated this has been a long work in progress going back quite some time.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:10 PM #30
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Well my statement goes more towards directing a question about how exactly this effect the paint companies in general.

The costs and process needs are still there I'm sure, however much it costs it has to have some direct effect on the pricing in general. To a point where this may or may not be truly cost effective.

So however true that may be thats just an observation on my part and hopefully a question that will be answered somewhere in the near future.
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Old 10-08-2009, 04:28 PM #31
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when you say cutting cost on paint cos you are absolutely right but not in the way you may think. more than likely companies that will produce paint will package 3000 round cases for around the same price as a 2000 round case. (maybe a few dollars more). Either way you spend less money on paint.


Personally I love the idea. Think about it, I get to play %50 longer on the same price. Awesome
No one says that the savings of the manufacturer are gonna be passed to retail.
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:37 PM #32
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No one says that the savings of the manufacturer are gonna be passed to retail.

You hit the nail on the head. I've not seen one single manufacturer say anything about this.
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Old 10-08-2009, 06:44 PM #33
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Wanna hear my opinion?(probably not) major tourneys should offer .50 and .68 dizisions, and which ever gets more turn out, will get the win...its simple!
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Old 10-08-2009, 07:06 PM #34
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A case of 2000 paintballs at .68 that wholesales for 23.00 a case SHOULD cost about 16.50.

23 / 68 = .33 per .100 inch * 5 = 16.50
....
That means that skid that costs $2400 today, will cost $1700.
not quite...
sorry, the science major in me compelled me to comment.
the size of the paintball and the cost to make the paint is better expressed by volume,

the derivative, (dV/dr), that is the change in volume based on the change of radius, is really the formula of what would yield to a proper calculation.
yours was linear while infact the derivative (rate of change) is NOT linear, its exponential. (4(pi)r^2) which also happens to be the formula for the surface area

if you follow the math here (very basic calculus) and plot the curve,
your estimate is actually somewhat lower than reality because as the radius (r) decreases, the rate at which the volume goes down (true cost to the manufacturer/money saved by consumer) is proportionally reduced. so

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raadio View Post
Not the BEST estimate, but ... a significant savings.
yes, money is definitely still saved, but not as much as you are postulating.

i hope that made sense and contributed.
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