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Old 10-07-2009, 08:10 PM #1
master2003
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Paintball datasheet

Mass(kg) KE(J) Force(N) Drag Diameter Momentum d/m
0.0014 5.8529 16.4592 .1295 0.0127 0.128016 1.011
.0034 14.2142 39.9723 .2324 0.0170 0.310896 .7477


Assuming 14in barrel @300f/s. Everything is in SI.
The first is 50 cal, the second is 68
D/M is the Drag force to Momentum ratio.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:08 PM #2
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Sorry, but that chart is quite difficult to read. Also, explain to all of the ignorants what the differences are in laymen's terms. It would make it much more useful, I believe.

What mass is a typical .68 ball and what is the mass for a .50 ball? If you knew that, you could cut out a lot of the unused data. Is the drag coefficient like a ballistic coefficient? Or are they opposite (high drag=bad ballistics)? My own physics ignorance is showing through like Janet's "wardrobe" at the super bowl.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:09 PM #3
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I thought this was some sort of ****ed up binary spam for a second..then I saw a 2.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:34 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockerman dan View Post
Sorry, but that chart is quite difficult to read. Also, explain to all of the ignorants what the differences are in laymen's terms. It would make it much more useful, I believe.

What mass is a typical .68 ball and what is the mass for a .50 ball? If you knew that, you could cut out a lot of the unused data. Is the drag coefficient like a ballistic coefficient? Or are they opposite (high drag=bad ballistics)? My own physics ignorance is showing through like Janet's "wardrobe" at the super bowl.
Mass=Mass in Kilograms
KE= Kinetic Energy in Joules
Force= Force in Newtons
Drag= Drag Force
Diameter=Diameter of the ball in meters
Momentum=Momentum in kg*m/s
D/M=Drag force to Momentum ratio

Mass of a .68 ball is 3.4g
Mass of a .50 ball is assumed 1.4g (scaled from a .68 ball)
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:47 PM #5
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they claim to have done something to the fill to make it more dense, any chance you could plug in a couple bigger masses for the .50 just to see what happens? if you did this in excel or something where it'd be easy to copy and paste a couple formulas and get values for 1.4 up to 2.4 (kinda ridiculous, doubt it's that heavy unless it's full of peanut butter), that'd be cool. that would give an idea of whether or not the more dense fill would have any notable effect.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:01 PM #6
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Question: What effect do higher or lower D/M values have on the flight of the ball? Is range shorter or longer? Would it have an effect on stability? I am guessing you did this with a ballistics computer or something?

I did notice that the force is less than half that of a .68 ball- thats pretty cool. Getting stabbed in the head when I am the last man left shouldn't be as painful anymore.
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:12 PM #7
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I thought this was some sort of ****ed up binary spam for a second..then I saw a 2.
my first thoughts
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Old 10-07-2009, 10:15 PM #8
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the D/M ratio would be proportional to the speed at which the ball decelerates. bigger number, bigger acceleration (negative acceleration = deceleration, it's a semantics thing in physics...). F = ma, P = mv, etc.

basically, this means that what people with experience with smaller paint sizes have said is true, which is that it might do better at short ranges, but at longer ranges, it will have slowed down enough that it will have dropped much more than a .68 ball would have (using the assumptions from the OP's calculations), and that it would be blown around by the wind more easily as well.
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:23 AM #9
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This is amazing data, real numbers actually show something. judging from what I see this makes .5 cal really not good because if at longer ranges it is more easily influenced by drag/air resistance then in variable form of weather the accuracy of a such a ball would drastically change thus making it less consistant to rely on. I'm sorry but if my accuracy only increases at short ranges when the sun is shining with no wind then me playing my best on a tournament on some day with weather unpredictable is really not in my favor.
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Old 10-08-2009, 02:21 AM #10
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Seems like it'd be fine at shorter ranges like xball.
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Old 10-08-2009, 08:56 AM #11
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Only numbers we're getting from testers put the mass of .50 at 1.134 grams, not projected 1.4(3) that many had thought. If this stuff is lighter it'll be all over the place in most conditions... Only time will tell, but I was hoping for 1.8 atleast.
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Old 10-08-2009, 09:00 AM #12
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too scientific
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Old 10-08-2009, 10:30 AM #13
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too scientific
Yeah. Let's all make arguments about how we think .50 caliber paintballs will perform without actually trying them or without actually considering science.

Awesome idea.
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Originally posted by matt00iconoclast:
"there are variables outside of physics that will affect the flight of the ball"
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:27 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cockerman dan View Post
Question: What effect do higher or lower D/M values have on the flight of the ball? Is range shorter or longer? Would it have an effect on stability? I am guessing you did this with a ballistics computer or something?

I did notice that the force is less than half that of a .68 ball- thats pretty cool. Getting stabbed in the head when I am the last man left shouldn't be as painful anymore.
I have no idea what D/M value represents in paintball flight.
Ballistics get very complicated when you have different masses, surface areas, and densities. In the real world the object with more inertia will resist the drag force more. Inertia is directly related to mass and velocity. So the heaviest, fastest, and smallest ball will have the best characteristics we are looking for (distance, accuracy, inertia).
I have no idea if the ASTM has already tested .50 cal and if they have what the fps and weight limits are. I assume if the .50 weighs in a 3.4g the fps limit will be 300fps.
So if weight/mass and velocity are fixed then the smallest ball will be the best aerodynamicly. That is if they find a way to make the ball heavier, which I assume they would do with a denser fill. They would have to find a dense fill with a viscosity similar to what we have now, otherwise the fill would just stay in the shell upon impact, and not 'flow' out onto the 'enemy'.
We will have to just wait and see.
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Old 10-08-2009, 11:35 AM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjata090 View Post
This is amazing data, real numbers actually show something. judging from what I see this makes .5 cal really not good because if at longer ranges it is more easily influenced by drag/air resistance then in variable form of weather the accuracy of a such a ball would drastically change thus making it less consistant to rely on. I'm sorry but if my accuracy only increases at short ranges when the sun is shining with no wind then me playing my best on a tournament on some day with weather unpredictable is really not in my favor.
the numbers are only for a scaled down .68... not indicative of the .50 round being sold as "better"
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