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Old 09-16-2009, 06:28 PM #1
DREXLER
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LPR 300 psi

HI all, I was just wondering if the reason my lpr guage is reading around 300psi could be because I use a high pressure tank.

http://www.actionvillage.com/031-536-0001

here is the tank that I use.

I've replaced all the orings in the gun, clean it, and am just short of sending it to critical. Can this be the problem.


thanks, drexler
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Old 09-16-2009, 06:41 PM #2
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My guess is that if you have a lpr that the regulator is doing its job, the lpr brings down the psi from the tank to what the gun works on. If it is ready 300psi you should be fine. The tank has nothing to do with the regulator.
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Old 09-16-2009, 07:20 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camohunter View Post
My guess is that if you have a lpr that the regulator is doing its job, the lpr brings down the psi from the tank to what the gun works on. If it is ready 300psi you should be fine. The tank has nothing to do with the regulator.
Don't try to help if oyu don't know what you're talking about, 300 psi is WAY too high for a quest.

Have you tried backing the screw out on the lpr? Replacing the lpr spring? Replacing the gauge?
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Old 09-16-2009, 08:09 PM #4
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also do not send it to critical send it to cps if you send it somewhere that is the new quest repair shop. mine had this problem and it was the orings on the bolt and bolt pin. check to make sure you replaced all the orings with the right size of oring.
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Old 09-16-2009, 10:56 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brad Cochran View Post
also do not send it to critical send it to cps if you send it somewhere that is the new quest repair shop. mine had this problem and it was the orings on the bolt and bolt pin. check to make sure you replaced all the orings with the right size of oring.
i used the kit off oring monkey, and I don't really care where I send my quest, both critical and cps are both authorized repair centers, so I'll go with the cheaper.


And to the person who asked about the springs, no I haven't replaced them, nor the valves.

I want to know if it could be the fact that my tank is a high pressure output that might cause the issue.
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Old 09-17-2009, 10:28 AM #6
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the only way it would be the reason is if the hpr is being bypassed and letting all the high pressure air into the gun. (even with a low pressure tank, those put out about 450 psi so if your hpr isnt working right youd still have the issue)

try rebuilding the hpr or swapping it out with another if possible but your tank is not the culprit

ninja edit: since i didnt bother looking at the tank you have before posting, you hav a myth reg which is for all intensive purposes a mid pressure tank only putting out about 650 psi there is not high or low pressure myth reg despite what the page on action village says in the title. looking into the item description it says its a mid pressure
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:32 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bomb_xero View Post
:ninja edit: since i didnt bother looking at the tank you have before posting, you hav a myth reg which is for all intensive purposes a mid pressure tank only putting out about 650 psi there is not high or low pressure myth reg despite what the page on action village says in the title. looking into the item description it says its a mid pressure
The standard Myth reg is a mid pressure air system, but I believe you can special order or convert the Myth reg to LP or HP output, but that's besides the point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I need a name View Post
Don't try to help if oyu don't know what you're talking about, 300 psi is WAY too high for a quest.
Correct. I'd say that 70-90psi was the right sort of ball park figure. 100psi at the most.

Some people can go a lot lower, and still have the marker cycle, but due to the way that the Quest bolt starts to release air as the bolt starts moving (rather than releasing the air at the point that the bolt stops moving forwards), a slow cycling bolt means a "slow" release of the air, which means that you are changing the way in which the marker is using the air, which may effect efficiency, consistency etc.

300psi is *way* too high, to the point that you could damage the solenoid if it cannot vent off the excess pressure fast enough.


Quote:
Originally Posted by camohunter View Post
My guess is that if you have a lpr that the regulator is doing its job, the lpr brings down the psi from the tank to what the gun works on. If it is ready 300psi you should be fine. The tank has nothing to do with the regulator.
The LPR sets the pressure used to cycle the marker, not the pressure used to fire the marker - that is controlled by the HPR (inline regulator if you prefer). So the pressure coming from the tank is first dropped down by the HPR to the pressure that will be used to fire the marker (the operating pressure). The operating pressure is then dropped down further by the LPR - this is the pressure that is then fed to the solenoid to cycle the bolt.

Funnily enough, 300psi seems a little high for the operating pressure, let alone for the cycling pressure, but let's assume that it is correct (maybe excessively low dwell, or too much tape employed in a tape mod).

Thing is that the gauge on a Quest measures the *cycling pressure* from the LPR, not the operating pressure from the HPR. So, as stated above, 300psi is a way higher pressure than the gauge should be reading, as the cycling pressure should be no more than 100psi.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DREXLER View Post
HI all, I was just wondering if the reason my lpr guage is reading around 300psi could be because I use a high pressure tank.

I've replaced all the orings in the gun, clean it, and am just short of sending it to critical. Can this be the problem.
As stated, your HPR should drop the pressure from the tank down to the operating pressure of the marker (as adjusted by yourself). It should be more than capable of handling 850psi or 650psi or 450psi or 350psi (the lowest LP output setting that I have ever seen on a preset air system) and still effectively reducing the pressure going in to your marker to the set level.

In other words, I doubt that your tank is having any effect on the pressure reading on your gauge - the tank output pressure has already been changed by the marker's HPR and LPR before it reaches the gauge, so is isolated (or at any rate, two steps removed) from the gauge.

As the pressure registering on your gauge is less than the output pressure of the air system reg, and assuming that the pressure reading is steady, then I would be inclined to assume that the marker's HPR is functioning correctly, and is set to output 300psi - it is after all regulating the tanks output pressure to a lower value.

As such, that would suggest that the 300psi reading on the gauge is actually the pressure coming from the HPR, reaching the gauge unregulated by the LPR.

The only way that is going to happen is if the LPR is incorrectly adjusted, if the LP air and HP air in the marker are mixing somewhere within the bolt kit (HP air is leaking passed an o-ring on the pin or bolt) or the LPRs Schrader valve is leaking.


Quote:
Originally Posted by DREXLER View Post
i used the kit off oring monkey.
Does the o-ring kit have urethane o-rings for the middle of the bolt? If not, that might possibly have an effect, but you can normally get away with using normal o-rings, at least for the short term. Still, it's possible that you just have the wrong o-rings, and using the right type of o-rings on the bolt would resolve this problem - the bolts middle o-ring is an o-ring that separates LP and HP air, so if the o-ring at this location didn't seal for whatever reason, then this could explain your problem.

The other o-rings that could cause this issue are the second and third pin o-rings (counting from the back). It should be possible to tell if these o-rings are at fault, as HP air entering behind the bolt would push it forwards, causing the marker to fire a shot when you aired it up, and then leaving the bolt stuck forwards.


OK, change of pace, change of colour. My responses to comments and questions are in red, but here's my conclusion and suggestions.

I'm pretty certain that your HPR pressure is registering on the LPR gauge, and I don't think that your air system has any part to play in that. Your HPR sounds like it is functioning correctly.

So why is the HPR pressure registering on the gauge? You have a leak in the bolt kit, or your LPR isn't reducing the operating pressure for some reason.

First things first, I would suggest trying to adjust the LPR pressure. See if you can lower it. If you still have a 300psi gauge reading after degassing the marker, turning the LPR adjustment screw out, and then gassing up the marker again, then the LPR adjustment isn't your issue.

Next, you can try removing the LPR cover and all the LPR internals from the marker, so you just have the front reg mount/LPR assembly left, with the LPR core/Schrader valve screwed in to it. Gas up the marker, and see if air leaks out of the LPR core. If it does, that is your problem - the LPR core should be sealed when the rest of the LPR is removed (the Schrader valve is normally pushed open by spring pressure on the piston - if the spring and piston are removed, the valve should be closed), and if it isn't, then the Schrader valve needs to be replaced.

If you can discount the LPR core, then that leaves LP and HP air mixing inside the bolt kit. You've changed the o-rings, but try again; you may just have a faulty o-ring - it can happen. Don't assume just because an o-ring looks good that it is good.

As mentioned earlier, if you have a urethane o-ring of the correct size, try that on the middle position on the bolt. Also as mentioned earlier, the o-rings to concentrate on are the middle bolt o-ring and the second and third pin o-rings from the back.

Another thing to check for is scratches inside the bolt and body - these would have the same effect as a leaking o-ring.

Last edited by Uziel Gal : 09-17-2009 at 12:39 PM. Reason: Typo.
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Old 09-17-2009, 03:27 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DREXLER View Post
i used the kit off oring monkey, and I don't really care where I send my quest, both critical and cps are both authorized repair centers, so I'll go with the cheaper.


And to the person who asked about the springs, no I haven't replaced them, nor the valves.

I want to know if it could be the fact that my tank is a high pressure output that might cause the issue.
Not true. CPS is the only factory authorized service center. Critical just has a few parts.


Sounds like it's either the middle bolt oring or the schrader valve on the LPR.
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Old 09-17-2009, 05:13 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Uziel Gal View Post
The standard Myth reg is a mid pressure air system, but I believe you can special order or convert the Myth reg to LP or HP output, but that's besides the point.



Correct. I'd say that 70-90psi was the right sort of ball park figure. 100psi at the most.

Some people can go a lot lower, and still have the marker cycle, but due to the way that the Quest bolt starts to release air as the bolt starts moving (rather than releasing the air at the point that the bolt stops moving forwards), a slow cycling bolt means a "slow" release of the air, which means that you are changing the way in which the marker is using the air, which may effect efficiency, consistency etc.

300psi is *way* too high, to the point that you could damage the solenoid if it cannot vent off the excess pressure fast enough.




The LPR sets the pressure used to cycle the marker, not the pressure used to fire the marker - that is controlled by the HPR (inline regulator if you prefer). So the pressure coming from the tank is first dropped down by the HPR to the pressure that will be used to fire the marker (the operating pressure). The operating pressure is then dropped down further by the LPR - this is the pressure that is then fed to the solenoid to cycle the bolt.

Funnily enough, 300psi seems a little high for the operating pressure, let alone for the cycling pressure, but let's assume that it is correct (maybe excessively low dwell, or too much tape employed in a tape mod).

Thing is that the gauge on a Quest measures the *cycling pressure* from the LPR, not the operating pressure from the HPR. So, as stated above, 300psi is a way higher pressure than the gauge should be reading, as the cycling pressure should be no more than 100psi.




As stated, your HPR should drop the pressure from the tank down to the operating pressure of the marker (as adjusted by yourself). It should be more than capable of handling 850psi or 650psi or 450psi or 350psi (the lowest LP output setting that I have ever seen on a preset air system) and still effectively reducing the pressure going in to your marker to the set level.

In other words, I doubt that your tank is having any effect on the pressure reading on your gauge - the tank output pressure has already been changed by the marker's HPR and LPR before it reaches the gauge, so is isolated (or at any rate, two steps removed) from the gauge.

As the pressure registering on your gauge is less than the output pressure of the air system reg, and assuming that the pressure reading is steady, then I would be inclined to assume that the marker's HPR is functioning correctly, and is set to output 300psi - it is after all regulating the tanks output pressure to a lower value.

As such, that would suggest that the 300psi reading on the gauge is actually the pressure coming from the HPR, reaching the gauge unregulated by the LPR.

The only way that is going to happen is if the LPR is incorrectly adjusted, if the LP air and HP air in the marker are mixing somewhere within the bolt kit (HP air is leaking passed an o-ring on the pin or bolt) or the LPRs Schrader valve is leaking.




Does the o-ring kit have urethane o-rings for the middle of the bolt? If not, that might possibly have an effect, but you can normally get away with using normal o-rings, at least for the short term. Still, it's possible that you just have the wrong o-rings, and using the right type of o-rings on the bolt would resolve this problem - the bolts middle o-ring is an o-ring that separates LP and HP air, so if the o-ring at this location didn't seal for whatever reason, then this could explain your problem.

The other o-rings that could cause this issue are the second and third pin o-rings (counting from the back). It should be possible to tell if these o-rings are at fault, as HP air entering behind the bolt would push it forwards, causing the marker to fire a shot when you aired it up, and then leaving the bolt stuck forwards.


OK, change of pace, change of colour. My responses to comments and questions are in red, but here's my conclusion and suggestions.

I'm pretty certain that your HPR pressure is registering on the LPR gauge, and I don't think that your air system has any part to play in that. Your HPR sounds like it is functioning correctly.

So why is the HPR pressure registering on the gauge? You have a leak in the bolt kit, or your LPR isn't reducing the operating pressure for some reason.

First things first, I would suggest trying to adjust the LPR pressure. See if you can lower it. If you still have a 300psi gauge reading after degassing the marker, turning the LPR adjustment screw out, and then gassing up the marker again, then the LPR adjustment isn't your issue.

Next, you can try removing the LPR cover and all the LPR internals from the marker, so you just have the front reg mount/LPR assembly left, with the LPR core/Schrader valve screwed in to it. Gas up the marker, and see if air leaks out of the LPR core. If it does, that is your problem - the LPR core should be sealed when the rest of the LPR is removed (the Schrader valve is normally pushed open by spring pressure on the piston - if the spring and piston are removed, the valve should be closed), and if it isn't, then the Schrader valve needs to be replaced.

If you can discount the LPR core, then that leaves LP and HP air mixing inside the bolt kit. You've changed the o-rings, but try again; you may just have a faulty o-ring - it can happen. Don't assume just because an o-ring looks good that it is good.

As mentioned earlier, if you have a urethane o-ring of the correct size, try that on the middle position on the bolt. Also as mentioned earlier, the o-rings to concentrate on are the middle bolt o-ring and the second and third pin o-rings from the back.

Another thing to check for is scratches inside the bolt and body - these would have the same effect as a leaking o-ring.

Alright, the super long reply time.

Yeah, I used the uthrane oring that came in the kit for the middle oring, I've tried adjusting the lpr and usually I can reduce the pressue a few notches on the gauge but it's still reading pretty high.

Going to try the last few mention checks.
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Old 09-18-2009, 08:46 PM #10
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when you say you have replaced the o-rings in the gun does that include the one in the low pressure regulator. if the o-ring on the lpr piston is bad it will jump up really high some times. i would also recommend lowering the regulare inline regulator 300 is a little high for the inline it should be between 200-250ish
the lpr should be at 80.

it does go down to 0 when you degas the gun right. a broken gage often goes all way over to 300.

good luck. hope you get it fixed. but if all else fails send it off
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Old 09-18-2009, 11:07 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by insanity_back View Post
when you say you have replaced the o-rings in the gun does that include the one in the low pressure regulator. if the o-ring on the lpr piston is bad it will jump up really high some times. i would also recommend lowering the regulare inline regulator 300 is a little high for the inline it should be between 200-250ish
the lpr should be at 80.

it does go down to 0 when you degas the gun right. a broken gage often goes all way over to 300.

good luck. hope you get it fixed. but if all else fails send it off
when i degass the marker what? Yeah the marker gauge jumps down to 0 when the marker is degassed and when it is aired up it goes to 300 psi
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Old 09-20-2009, 04:51 PM #12
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I also bought an oring kit form oring monkey and had the same problem. I changed the orings on my bolt and pin and it worked fine for i while but before i went to play the lpr shot up ot about 300 psi, around where the hpr was set at. Easy fix though, i put on the 17 70 oring when i changed the orings and all i had to do was use the 17 size 90 oring. Check if you put on a buna oring that it is a 70 durometer instead of 90.
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Last edited by Mcpber16 : 09-20-2009 at 04:52 PM. Reason: wrong durometer
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