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Old 03-27-2009, 10:14 AM #22
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I would go to major paintball companies like rps and make a deal with them like you'll only sell there paint at ur field and they give u a good paint price like cheaper than wholesale. Like say it cost $80 for every case shipped to wherever you are then sell it for like $125 and everyone will start playing at ur field and you'll make a **** load of $$$
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Old 03-28-2009, 11:40 PM #23
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Why not open up a place indoors buys a bunch of reballs and charge everyone $175ish to play all day (or more) and you'll pay off those reballs within a few weekends and then everything else is just profits!
Indoor reball is not what I'm all about. There is a growing number in speedballers here who are aching for a proper speedball facility. In addition, the only rec-ball facility here is losing nearly all of its clientelle to another better field in a neighboring city.
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:47 AM #24
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If you have enough space to do it I would try and keep your rec-ballers and tourney guys as far apart from each other as possible.

I don't know if you would see the same issues we see out here, but it seems to be a very good idea.
why? there is nothing wrong with that is there? i play tournaments and i talk to rec ballers if they need help with something. tournament ballers dont have couties
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Old 03-29-2009, 02:19 AM #25
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why? there is nothing wrong with that is there? i play tournaments and i talk to rec ballers if they need help with something. tournament ballers dont have couties
While it may be true you are a positive influence, your friends may be positive influences, hell your entire group of speedballers could be a positive influence.

The fact of the matter is that keeping your speedballers and rec-ballers playing near or with each other can be quite detrimental to a fields clientele. You have to keep in mind that while you may be polite and helpful, a good number of speedballers are not. Whether intentional or not, a speedballers appearance, competitive attitude, or just the sound of a higher rate of fire can all create a negative impact on recballers, whether new or even seasoned.

I too am a tourney baller, I like to believe the most of my interaction with recballers was positive, although I know some of them were not. I am quite aware that there are a lot of "good guys" in the tourney scene, but I am also aware it doesn't take much to give a field a bad name.

The long and short of it is this. If one player is a complete is an ******* to, or even just around, your recballers,(or their parents) it can keep them from coming back, and if it's a private group it could keep them from telling their friends how awesome their day was. That is a cancer that can spread very fast and could be very destructive before it is even noticed.

If an owner had the opportunity to keep their groups away from each other that's what they should. It's just the best thing for business.
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Old 03-29-2009, 03:17 AM #26
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While it may be true you are a positive influence, your friends may be positive influences, hell your entire group of speedballers could be a positive influence.

The fact of the matter is that keeping your speedballers and rec-ballers playing near or with each other can be quite detrimental to a fields clientele. You have to keep in mind that while you may be polite and helpful, a good number of speedballers are not. Whether intentional or not, a speedballers appearance, competitive attitude, or just the sound of a higher rate of fire can all create a negative impact on recballers, whether new or even seasoned.

I too am a tourney baller, I like to believe the most of my interaction with recballers was positive, although I know some of them were not. I am quite aware that there are a lot of "good guys" in the tourney scene, but I am also aware it doesn't take much to give a field a bad name.

The long and short of it is this. If one player is a complete is an ******* to, or even just around, your recballers,(or their parents) it can keep them from coming back, and if it's a private group it could keep them from telling their friends how awesome their day was. That is a cancer that can spread very fast and could be very destructive before it is even noticed.

If an owner had the opportunity to keep their groups away from each other that's what they should. It's just the best thing for business.
To the above text that is bolded, that is 100% true. There is a field that I went to over the winter break that lost the majority of my business for 1. It's horrible control over sportsmanship, 2. Not my main field anyways (although I do practice every weekend, so my business is considerable).

The field was a speedball field, but rec kids with tippy's and scenario markers, as well as new tournament ballers and seasoned tournament ballers (like myself) were there. A couple games were very one sided, so I attempted to at least help out the rec kids. Unfortunately, I'm sure many of you are aware of how frustrating it is to get smashed every game, EVEN when you know you'll most likely lose. Even worse....is when the other team refuses to split up, despite knowing the unfairness to the match. I don't understand why people want to practice as a team AGAINST, rec ballers. Ok...I understand the concept of playing with each other, but what good does it do to run down the field every game? Might as well match up against each other....

What tipped me over the edge though, was the owner who decided to play, was too ignorant to notice this and went onto the one sided team!

After that game, I picked up and left. Too bad it was the only BYOP field in the area which is why I go there (I get free paint, only reason why), but they definitely lost my business.

Sorry for the O.T., but it follows from the previous post, and emphasizes how a bad experience can hurt potential business.
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Old 03-29-2009, 03:33 AM #27
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I've hit people in the same spot and left the same welt and knocked them out with multiple brands of paintballs. Temple shots are deadly, hence why we started mandating face and temple protection on masks in the 80's.

That said, only difference between Monster Ball and its name brand box is cure time to dry the shell. If you do get a super "fresh" bag the shell willdo exactly what they show it in the video.

The big difference between rec paint and tourney shells is cure time. Longer they air dry the shell the more britle it becomes. Great for tourney, sucks for rec ball and retail chains.

Any paintball if it is too fresh and too little of a cure time will be very difficult to break. People who want paint that is right off the factory line, are insane as the stuff can bounce off a brick wall at 280fps.

You have to let it age. If I recall I was getting paint so fresh from Nelson I had the same issue, they advised me it became better with age from 30-60 days and then from the 60-365 it was prime if it was rolled every 30 days and kept around 80 degrees.

Sad part is when have you ever seen wally world roll cases to make sure the paint stays round?

So in a nutshell don't fear wally world or retail cases any paint can be too fresh. If you get a bulk order of it and its too bouncy, put it in a room for 72 hours at 90 degrees, then let it cool slowly and walla, it will become very tourney like.

And don't bite em, this new stuff tastes like crap even though it is "food grade" its the bottom of the line.
....so, out of curiosity....are you saying that Monsterball is comparable to, say, DXS Gold, and that the only major (playablilty) difference between the two is how long it has been air cured?
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:16 AM #28
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....so, out of curiosity....are you saying that Monsterball is comparable to, say, DXS Gold, and that the only major (playablilty) difference between the two is how long it has been air cured?
I agree, to a degree you can improve the firmness of the ball with this method - but you can't change the thickness of the shell or the ****tyness of the fill. You still need to buy a reasonable quality paint, and RPS will always be better than WalMart, no matter what you do.
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:22 AM #29
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I would go to major paintball companies like rps and make a deal with them like you'll only sell there paint at ur field and they give u a good paint price like cheaper than wholesale. Like say it cost $80 for every case shipped to wherever you are then sell it for like $125 and everyone will start playing at ur field and you'll make a **** load of $$$
I hope you are not quoting these prices from memory. If so hope you got kissed.
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Old 03-29-2009, 10:48 AM #30
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Originally Posted by voodoo27909 View Post
....so, out of curiosity....are you saying that Monsterball is comparable to, say, DXS Gold, and that the only major (playablilty) difference between the two is how long it has been air cured?
If you find the name brand that Monster is created from and compare the fill and shell material they are identical except for cure time. Monster will most likely get a majority of the seconds.

DXS will even make a rec version of Gold and the difference is cure time.

Most players get so wrapped up in what paint they want or will only shoot, the fail to see that the same manufacturer will produce multiple brands and or versions of the same paint. Now people who do not manufacturer a paint but have it made by someone else, they will claim it is different or trade seceret or some bull**** but, the bottom line is there are only a few manufacturers producing paint.

APG had a fairly decent article on production from a UK plant. I have toured 5 different plants around the world and seen the same balls roll off the line go into one set of boxes until the boxes were filled then they roll up a pallet with another brand on them and keep filling. I have seen this at all 5 plants.

Now is a brand going to tell you X brand is the same as Y brand, No. Are they goign to tell you rec and tourney are same shell and fill except for cure, some times yes, some times no. It all depends on how they hype thier brand.
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Old 03-29-2009, 12:09 PM #31
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....
Most players get so wrapped up in what paint they want or will only shoot, the fail to see that the same manufacturer will produce multiple brands and or versions of the same paint. Now people who do not manufacturer a paint but have it made by someone else, they will claim it is different or trade seceret or some bull**** but, the bottom line is there are only a few manufacturers producing paint......
Although you are right, there are a lot less manufacturers of paint then there are "brands" of paint it still doesn't matter. **** paint is **** paint, doesn't matter if it's seconds DXS gold, seconds marbs, or 1st run 90's proball being used in the summer. Fill, shell, cure time, bla bla bla, all the technical details are irrelevant when the end state is ****ty paint.
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Old 03-29-2009, 04:28 PM #32
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Wouldn't it cost less to ship it from Europe in bulk? I mean 300/Box is insane.
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Old 03-29-2009, 05:25 PM #33
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Hi all, I am in the process of starting my own field in Dubai. I am interested in your thoughts with regards to paint. From what I have been reading, there are a number of fields that only allow the use of their own paint while others are more liberal.

Just to give you a background about the paintball scene here - There are currently 5 operating fields in the country. They all sell a box of reasonable quality paint for ... (drum roll) ... USD 300/- No this is not a typo! This is the going rate. In addition to the above, players do not have the option of buying paint from stores since there are none to begin with!!!

So here's the dilemma! In the interest of making this sport grow in this part of the world, I'm seriously thinking of allowing players to source their own paint from abroad (which would still be cheaper than buying it from the other fields here) or should i restrict my field to field only paint - but much cheaper prices? Or should I just be another greedy SOB and stick to the current prices?

Your thoughts would be highly appreciated.
Honestly, if you decide not to be a greedy ******* and charge dirt cheap prices you'll grab the business. I mean, Dubai isn't a large country so if you can snag the business form the other fields by charging players less, you'll make more money by volume. So, if you can... sell paint for like $50-100 a case? But I mean here in the states my home field charges $35 for the average player. lul.
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Old 03-29-2009, 05:35 PM #34
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on the whole rec/tourny thing, i am a rec-baller, started out playing in a private party with first timers like myself, and now i am playing as often as possible, waiting to get more of an income to play weekly...
I am looking to get into tournys, and I am friends with a lot of the D3ers 'round here, but i am still scared as $#!T when i walk by the speedball field. (still play on it though)
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Old 03-29-2009, 11:19 PM #35
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Wouldn't it cost less to ship it from Europe in bulk? I mean 300/Box is insane.
You also have to remember, IMPORT FEE, EXPORT FEE, Container Fee, Handling Fee etc etc etc etc.

I have given him the number of a New Zealand based exporter and if people have Euro contacts they should hook him up. Also remember Dubai isn't a normal economy. The Prince is gearing it to be "The Vacation and Retirement Destination" for the Rich. There is nothing inexpensive in Dubai.
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Old 03-31-2009, 12:53 PM #36
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Another big thing, I believe, with FPO or BYOP is insurance company for your field. Now I don't know if you are required to have insurance over there etc etc, but that is one of the reasons why they do it in the US.
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Old 03-31-2009, 01:09 PM #37
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Another big thing, I believe, with FPO or BYOP is insurance company for your field. Now I don't know if you are required to have insurance over there etc etc, but that is one of the reasons why they do it in the US.
We are not obliged to carry insurance. However, I am going ahead and getting covered - to be on the safe side! Honestly speaking, I would be extremely surprised if any insurance company here knew the difference between the two options of paint! Remember paintball is a new sport here.
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:35 AM #38
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I agree with the keep your prices in line with the competition, and then focus your efforts on being a better field.

There have been many, many discussions here about this subject matter and what seems to be the overwhelming opinion among actual field owners is that you should focus your efforts on being better instead of cheaper.
**** that man, thats the United State (and others) form of economy to break the citizen in order to get richer and richer. Im not exactly sure on what overhead in Dubai is, but really... 300 for a case of paint? And whats it cost for production? Exactly, enough said.

Quit being money hungry and sell it to make a responsible profit, not to steal a shirt from a guy who isnt even wearing one.

edit: And that only reason field and store owner are encouraging other new and upcoming fields to do the same as far as cost is so that competition doesnt come into play (for those of you who understand economics) thus allowing them to maintain the rediculous cost of the paint.
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:02 PM #39
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Hi all, I am in the process of starting my own field in Dubai. I am interested in your thoughts with regards to paint. From what I have been reading, there are a number of fields that only allow the use of their own paint while others are more liberal.

Just to give you a background about the paintball scene here - There are currently 5 operating fields in the country. They all sell a box of reasonable quality paint for ... (drum roll) ... USD 300/- No this is not a typo! This is the going rate. In addition to the above, players do not have the option of buying paint from stores since there are none to begin with!!!

So here's the dilemma! In the interest of making this sport grow in this part of the world, I'm seriously thinking of allowing players to source their own paint from abroad (which would still be cheaper than buying it from the other fields here) or should i restrict my field to field only paint - but much cheaper prices? Or should I just be another greedy SOB and stick to the current prices?

Your thoughts would be highly appreciated.

I am already liking your opinion on this. BYOP FTW. IMHO. IT si FPO fields that cause paintball to die. I know these guys need to pay their bills too, but I bet you will bring more customers in a BYOP field anytime. Plus people do like to buy their own favorite brand. Just set rules that are not allowed like MonsterBall by Brass Eagle.
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:27 PM #40
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IT si FPO fields that cause paintball to die. I know these guys need to pay their bills too, but I bet you will bring more customers in a BYOP field anytime. Plus people do like to buy their own favorite brand.
It's odd that you would think that since most of the fields that I hear are having trouble are BYOP (or very low FPO, which amounts to much the same thing), while those that are currently growing or holding their own at least while the rest of the industry is declining are FPO. Now that's generalizing and I know there are exceptions on both sides, but that is the general observation I have made (and I observe this a lot).

If you are BYOP and have tournament type fields, you will attract a higher percentage of established players. So if that is your goal, go for it. However, BYOP and/or low FPO prices will promote higher paintball usage, which in turn will reduce the growth of new players for that field. So if player growth is your objective, BYOP may not be the route to go.

Now I am not saying have ludicrous FPO prices. $300 /case sounds high to even me, but then again, I don't know what the economic situation in Dubai is like exactly. I do know that spending habits in that part of the world are a bit different than here. A friend was telling me when he was there a couple of years ago that kiosk vendors in a mall were selling gold plated cell phones for $20,000 (and selling several per day), so we're not completely comparing apples to apples here.
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Old 04-02-2009, 02:51 PM #41
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It's odd that you would think that since most of the fields that I hear are having trouble are BYOP (or very low FPO, which amounts to much the same thing), while those that are currently growing or holding their own at least while the rest of the industry is declining are FPO. Now that's generalizing and I know there are exceptions on both sides, but that is the general observation I have made (and I observe this a lot).

If you are BYOP and have tournament type fields, you will attract a higher percentage of established players. So if that is your goal, go for it. However, BYOP and/or low FPO prices will promote higher paintball usage, which in turn will reduce the growth of new players for that field. So if player growth is your objective, BYOP may not be the route to go.

Now I am not saying have ludicrous FPO prices. $300 /case sounds high to even me, but then again, I don't know what the economic situation in Dubai is like exactly. I do know that spending habits in that part of the world are a bit different than here. A friend was telling me when he was there a couple of years ago that kiosk vendors in a mall were selling gold plated cell phones for $20,000 (and selling several per day), so we're not completely comparing apples to apples here.

Over here I can name 2 businesses that already went out and they were FPO.

Paying $85 bucks for a few hours of play for paint that is mediocre or sucky is just not fun in these tough times. I know you guys have big bills, I am not doubting that, running a business sucks sometimes, My family used to run a store for 10years, until we just couldn't do it anymore because they had 2nd jobs to support the store.
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Old 04-02-2009, 02:55 PM #42
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At my local field they have byop, but only on certain days and instead of $15 for entrance and air, it is $30. Another good idea, from the same field, is to have a "special" night.
for example, this field normally charges i believe $65 for a case of paint and $15 for air and entry, but on Thursdays, it is $40 for a case AND air/entry.
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