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Old 02-19-2009, 10:58 AM #22
hsilman
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Originally Posted by Frank112916 View Post
that's easy to say in hindsight but what about when prices were "grossly inflated" 140%?

Not to mention, in many areas of the country, housing prices haven't dropped and are still increasing, so I mean that graph doesn't say much.
fair enough, but in the interest of full disclosure, that graph was published in the NY Times in 2006.
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Old 02-19-2009, 11:02 AM #23
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How did their 'wealth' disappear, when it wasn't there in the first place. The only reason why they were given the homes/mortgages, was because real estate had been rising for an ungodly amount of time. The people couldn't actually afford the mortgages even before the market bottomed, but given the ever-increasing rise in real estate prices, they were lent out anyways. Whose fault? Everyones' who influenced this type of irrational behavior.
I can throw something in here...my first home I invested 12k into it. When we sold it that 12k had grown into 30k. That was actual money, well numbers, in my bank account....on a side note I tried getting it in cash and the lady was pretty shocked I would even ask.

Anyways we took that 30k and bought another house...nothing big and nothing to fancy. Should have we waited....yes and I would be able to have a HUGE house for the same price...would have been able to steal it from idiots who took out the bad loans.

So how did my WEALTH not disappear? It may not be gone forever but it sure put a kink in my plans of buying a different house this year.
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:05 PM #24
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I'm not in favor of it. It's populist economics.
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Old 02-19-2009, 12:48 PM #25
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why not give the money to those who didnt buy out of their means to purchase the homes from those who cant afford them and shouldnt have bought them in the first place... they would take a loss, but the lesson will be far more valuable...

and obamas speech... ridiculous... banks need to end the practices that got us into this mess? didnt the govt tell them to give money to people who couldnt afford the houses?
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:08 PM #26
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why not give the money to those who didnt buy out of their means to purchase the homes from those who cant afford them and shouldnt have bought them in the first place... they would take a loss, but the lesson will be far more valuable...

and obamas speech... ridiculous... banks need to end the practices that got us into this mess? didnt the govt tell them to give money to people who couldnt afford the houses?
Partly, yes.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:23 PM #27
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When do we get reductions on our car payments we can't afford? When does this stop?

George, are you Rick Santelli by any chance?
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:26 PM #28
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Ohh crap, car payments! SWEET! Always wanted a Lambo on my ~65-70K/yr salary.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:32 PM #29
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When do we get reductions on our car payments we can't afford? When does this stop?

George, are you Rick Santelli by any chance?


Nah, but smart guy

I'm a much better thinker and written debater than I am at oration. If I had to speak on national television, I'd probably embarrass myself. I'm like a modern-day Jefferson.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:32 PM #30
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Fact is we need to reduce the principal on these mortgages interest isnt going to bring down payments enough to make a difference. It sucks that we have to do this when a lot of us were responsible but we are all getting ****ed because of it. your helping yourself too by going along with this.
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Old 02-19-2009, 09:40 PM #31
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Its good to a certain extent. My Dad was making 90k a year and my Mom is making only 45~ so we could afford our house. Now that my dad lost his job that he had for 17+ years we're barely making it. Auto industry ftl
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Old 02-19-2009, 11:16 PM #32
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Nah, but smart guy

I'm a much better thinker and written debater than I am at oration. If I had to speak on national television, I'd probably embarrass myself. I'm like a modern-day Jefferson.
You know what I like best about you George? Your modesty.
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Old 02-20-2009, 12:39 AM #33
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You know what I like best about you George? Your modesty.


?
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Old 02-20-2009, 12:46 AM #34
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I knew I should have waited... but nooo I had to buy a year before the burst , and get a great fixed interest rate, and walk into 10g's of equity off the bat... ****ing bull****.
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Old 02-20-2009, 01:04 AM #35
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I bought just before the bubble and refinanced during it, and am in great position right now. I have a mostly unused line of credit on the equity as well. Responsibility is its own reward. I can afford my mortgage and have tons of equity in my home even as prices have leveled out and come back down a little.

But what WILL **** me over is if I lose my job due to the ****ed economy. To that end I have ZERO problems with this program. Performing loans earn infinitely more income than loans in default, so writedowns or interest rate adjustments are in my interest even if I don't get one. It is unlikely that writedowns or adustments would approach what I got anyway, had I bought during the bubble.

Most people don't understand this, especially people who aren't homeowners and don't have much life experience.
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Old 02-20-2009, 01:11 AM #36
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With all the bad business with mortgages in the news lately I'm glad that I rent a house instead of owning one... I pay the same amount every month (I have a lease) as well as the utilities and I have no other worries. The house is owned straight up by a family friend (she grew up in it and then moved to NYC and never used it again), so she pays the taxes and for the various insurances required and still comes out above even with the rent. I have friends who bought just before the bubble burst who currently are being foreclosed on... it's a damn shame...
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Old 02-20-2009, 04:30 AM #37
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On the one hand there's the moral hazard part that really sucks...

But on the other, home prices are so down from where the were out in the markets that got really hot, that even the people who can technically afford their mortgages are screwed. Like if you were one of those people who bought a tiny house in the San Francisco bay area for $1,000,000 and now its worth $500,000, and there's little prospect of it gaining value back to $1M for a decade, then don't you walk away from it? And what if you got a no-money-down mortgage and have much less to lose by just walking away from it? And then isn't this all the government's fault in the end anyway? They sat back and did nothing as asset values were clearly spiriling out of control.
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Old 02-20-2009, 09:54 AM #38
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When housing become more accessible the price jumped with the jump in demand. Along with that jump in demand came a jump in quality, frankly a massive jump. Because of it housing went through a new sort of renaissance between size, design and quality. This brought huge changes into how homes are built, materials used and time of construction, though it's obvious things where getting out of hand the benifits from early 90's homes to homes built in the new millenium are pretty substancial.

And the idea that realestate investment some how created false money, or buying nothing with nothing is pretty naive, even with the massive mortgages 92% of people still can afford to pay for these homes though value has dropped with a massive supply, homes are sound investments when done properly, the cookie cutters eroded that slightly.
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:31 AM #39
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I haven't had a chance to look at the plan in detail yet, but let me put this out there.

People bought these homes with the historical expectation that the values of these homes would rise or at least stay relatively stable and then the entire housing market bottomed out and there houses have plummeted in value.

These Americans just saw their wealth disappear, as their mortgage is greater than the value of their home.
With that in mind, let a debate begin.

so

they took a risk, NOTHING in investments is a sure bet. They lost big and I don't feel bad for them at the least.

The crapy thing is the people that were responsible don't get any sort of reward. All this does in encourage irrational irresponsible bad behavior, it's just like when raising your kids, if you do it wrong the first time you'll be paying for it MANY more years to come.

But these stupid people that got themselves into this mess are the same ones that voted for Obama and he needs to appeal for his constituents so I guess it’s politics as always not change.

So no Adema there no silver lining to this. While you may think it’s a good idea because you support Obama you’ll be wishing otherwise when it comes full circle.
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Old 02-20-2009, 11:29 AM #40
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I believe that part of living in a free society is taking risks, and sometimes you get burned in the process. Yes, it sucks for the people who get burned, but the alternative (a centralized, state-run economy) is not so rosy either.
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Old 02-20-2009, 12:14 PM #41
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You know what I like best about you George? Your modesty.
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Old 02-20-2009, 12:48 PM #42
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With all the bad business with mortgages in the news lately I'm glad that I rent a house instead of owning one... I pay the same amount every month (I have a lease) as well as the utilities and I have no other worries. The house is owned straight up by a family friend (she grew up in it and then moved to NYC and never used it again), so she pays the taxes and for the various insurances required and still comes out above even with the rent. I have friends who bought just before the bubble burst who currently are being foreclosed on... it's a damn shame...
Difference is, if you were responsible and bought a house you could afford, you actually have something to your name, whereas you could pay rent every month for the rest of your life and still own squat. I'm not talking about you, just addressing the point you made.
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