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Old 05-25-2004, 02:35 PM #1
NMMI89
 
 
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Post A-5 vs. SIM 4/WG65

I'm new to the sport and to the forum. I'm looking to invest either the Tippmann A-5 or the SIM 4/ WG65 (I list both because they are similar. Please do not turn this thread into a debate about which is the "real" Armotech. I've read all the posts regarding this issue. Thanx). I have some questions about both.

1) Could someone give me the pros and cons of both guns? I went to my local paintball shop and he recommended against the "Armotech" stating that the technology was old and that it had a lot of problems. He did not state what problems the "Armotech" had.

2) Durability in the field. How do both guns stand up in inclement weather, dropped on the ground, etc? Rain, sand, mud, heat, etc?

3) Ease of repair and/ or cleaning. How easy is it to field strip both?

4) Upgrades. How easy and what type of upgrades can you get for both? I know you can get an electronic trigger for the A-5. But, what about the SIM 5/ WG65?

Thanx for y'alls input.
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:02 PM #2
blue69camaro383 (Banned)
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if i was you...i would not go to that shop again......the guy is a tard...(a 69 camaro is outdated technology yet one still fetches $280,000 at a barret jackson auction)


i have no problems with my wg-65...none!!..not one ball chop so far out of 2500rds..the gun is easy to clean and works awesome...i never used a a5 but i have seen one used...it works just as good...

the wg-65 has better looks imo...thats why i bought it over a a5.....i paid $329 for mine and its about the same as a a5 with an upgraded barrel..the 14 inch barrel works great...the gun shoots straight and can fire just as fast as a a5
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Old 05-25-2004, 03:50 PM #3
ArmoMatt311
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I agree never go to that shop again. These local shops have no clue about the Armotech line of markers therefor they have to make stuff up to cover thereselves.

The blowback markers have been around forever yes the brand new kingman products are all blowback type markers... these markers are the most durable and easiest to use and are very affordable. the reciever of the WG65 and WG75 are the tanks of the paintball world... they are solid as a rock, yes alittle heavy but we arent playing speedball here are we?... Iv never shot a SIM-4 so i cant tell you about that . but I have a WG65 and I love it. If you read the online owners manual and you take care of your WG there are absolutly no cons to the marker great accuracy made very well. the RIS edition is very hard to break b/c the handguard is al metal also. sometimes if you drop the plastic handguards they can break.. but thats no way to treat your marker anyways ... dirt can get in the cocking tube in the side if not careful .. BUT the new WS66 made by the sister company of Armotech called WarSensor has top cocking which is closed so that dirt can get in .. and its more realistic. along with that is a barrel that is just as accurate as the WG but shoots as far as the flatline barrel. due to the 3 groove system. the field stripping of the WGs and WSs is pretty easy... just the same as any other blowback type marker ... the WS has a field strip pin that allows it to be brokin down alittle faster. field stripping only consists of removing botl and barrel ... as far as a total break down for maintanance is alittle more than the typical blowback spyder due to the add ons involved. but thats part of the fun.

as far as upgrades the WG65 and WS66 are both compatible with real M16 AR15 M4 type guns... all use picatiny or weaver mounting for add ons. the barrel is VM68 threads on the WG65, but you will most likly not be able to put the handguards on another barrel. the WS66 dose not have threads the barrel is held on by a field strip pin.

hope this helps you out.
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Old 05-25-2004, 07:40 PM #4
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Thanx for your input y'all.

5) What type of hopper does the SIM 4/ WG65 utilize? Will any hopper work?

6) Is it worth it to upgrade with the bottom line and the remote coil? What are the pros and cons with using this type of system?

7) I've read that the rate of fire is semi-auto. Is there a selector switch? Or is the rate of fire how fast you can pull the trigger?
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Last edited by NMMI89 : 05-25-2004 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 05-25-2004, 10:46 PM #5
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i use a halo tsa

i bought the clip kit and that included the bottom line...so that was sweet and adds to the look

rof is as fast as you can aim and pull the trigger
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Old 05-26-2004, 07:17 AM #6
ArmoMatt311
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They have some packages at www.DMSPaintball.com with the WG65 you can put the Halo TSA and a 20 oz tank for $485. most people like to use a remote line so they can carry the tank on there back .. you dont need a remote line at first use it for a while then if you decided you want a remote line get one.. make sure it is a good remote line. it is semi but can be upgraded to fully auto no problems. but with my experiances I suggest sticking with the semi and get a red dot and play one shot one kill.. one shot at a time this gun is deadly. very accurate. you start getting into the rapid fire and not only this gun but most blow back guns gets very in accurate.. due to movment and air consistancy.

also check out Warsensor.com ... DMSpaintball also has them in stock.
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Old 05-26-2004, 07:43 AM #7
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full auto = wasted paint
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Old 05-26-2004, 10:41 AM #8
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agreed
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:41 AM #9
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Wow you guys covered most of the bases.

WS and WG comes with a lifetime warranty

If you are going to mod out an A5 you are going to spend more money then just buying a WG65 and WS66.
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Old 05-26-2004, 07:54 PM #10
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A5 with a flatline barrel costs 349.99. That will beat the 65 and will match the 66. There is mixed results, just depends on your fancy.

A5
Flatline
C-Stock
Total = 424.98

WS66 439.99

Well thats a pretty much all tricked out A5... made in the USA. Lifetime warranty (I just had a guy send me a SL68II and I sent it in for him. Got it back no charge.) Tippmann repairs all there stuff no matter what. Ive never been charged for anything.

Armotech as well has a lifetime warranty. Tippmann is alot faster on warranty repair but is ten times the size of armotech and maybe then some. Armotech is still a young company.

Tippmann was in the same boat at one time.

Jim, you are wrong about the 66. Besides, other than the stuff Armotech makes there are no aftermarket accessories out for Armotechs yet made by another company. Scepter and Expertshot.com are soon to release their stuff but nothing yet so there isnt much you can do to them.

You act like your going to pay a arm and a leg for a Tippmann when your actually paying less. Just setting the facts strait here.

If your going to get a gun dont get the 65. Get the 66 or A5. The War Sensor has to be lubed and taken care of. Tippmanns are put a drop in the ASA and go type of gun.

In the end I like both guns but I prefer the A5 with personal experience. I started playing paintball when Pro Carbines were just coming out. I used to have a SL68II along with that then got out of the sport and returned for a short stint now am back for the long haul.

War Sensor WS66
Tippmann A5

Both good guns. Its up to you, the consumer.
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Old 05-26-2004, 08:07 PM #11
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rather have my armo over a tippy...i have been shot at with a flat line and i can grab the balls....mid air...they are slow
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Old 05-26-2004, 08:11 PM #12
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Add the Proteam ranger package to the A5 for realism thats another $160 you are now at $584.

What part am I wrong about the 66?
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Old 05-26-2004, 09:00 PM #13
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Hello anyone out there...

You all compare it to a flatline, lets not spin it. A pro team barrel will only compete with the WG65, some of them are rifled, the ones that are would compete with the 66s barrel.

You cant make a comparison on a A5 vs the 66,65.

Reason.

WS66/WG65 based on M4 (M16, AR15)
Tippmann A5 based on MP5.

Get the facts strait here. Your totally spining this.

Pro Team A5 Ranger 409.99 cheaper than the flatline A5. Jim, do you know what the hell your talking about, seems like you dont.

You want looks by far and away stick with the War Sensor. Its a good gun.

A5 Elite 389.99 (A5, Sniper Stock, Barrel similar to the WG65s, and Fiberlite handguards) The A5 Ranger will out do a WG65 in durability. The 66 is yet to be seen. I havnt had the chance to beat the hell out of one yet.

Both guns should have remotes.

I thought you were a dealer for Tippmann, do you not know the product you sell???

Here is your own post in the Armotech dealer forum

"A dealer lost a large sale to me yesterday because he or she could not speak about the product.

I don't know who the original dealer was but THANK YOU for handing me a $800 order and not knowing your product.

Order one gun for yourself and force yourself to use it no matter how bad it chops, how heavy it is, or how many problems you have. Eventually you will fix all the problems and learn the product. I have used every product Armotech sells except for the g2s and Zenith."

Looks as your a bit shall we say eating your own words???

Also, your addition is a bit wrong. You said add 160.00 to the A5, flatline, and c-stock. That was 424.99 (the A5 and that stuff). Now you Jim (devilmountain sports) say add 160.00. Well first off it already has a C-stock, not that someone would need two of the same C-stock ??? If you wanted the handguards you can get them at 98.99.

Lets see 424.99 plus 98.99 equals 523.98 and you get:
Tippmann A5
Flatline Barrel
C-stock
Fiberlite Handguards
Extra Rifled Barrel (non rifled is a bit cheaper)
Lifetime Warranty

For 439.99 you get:
WS 66
Lifetime Warranty.
There is no extra accessories out for them but the standard ones. No new barrels yet. You also will need a spring kit which runs 9.99 then add a new o ringless bolt 489.99.

With the Tippmann your getting the better buy. Jim just doesnt know what he is talking about.

You dont need the stock for the A5. You have no choice on the 66 do to the design of the marker, it based on a M4 (M16) so it needs to have the stock.

The A5 is also a bit lighter, the stocks are pro team stocks so they are alot better. Armotech stocks are screw ins on the 65s compared to pins on the A5. I admit the 98 stocks are a pain in the butt.

Looks get the 66 but the A5 is a better buy with the same or BETTER performance. Depends what your looking at. Hope this thread has helped fix some dealers who "dont know their own products" when they claim they use the products they sell.

NMMI89 I would be glad to assit you with further questions.

Camero, I have a flatline and have done that but I have done that with every other paintball gun I sell. Its called, being to far away. When fields use 280 FPS and Tippmanns shoot alot harder than other markers as do Armotechs your going to be able to catch them, if your far enough away.
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Old 05-26-2004, 10:20 PM #14
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All I can say is you are out of line for posting something from a private forum in public.

I won't fall into your bickering or games
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Old 05-26-2004, 10:30 PM #15
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Just setting the facts strait here. You dont want to inguage into a debate over facts thats fine. The facts are posted above.

Just making sure everyone knew what the facts here were.

You made a statement and Im calling you on that and am setting the record strait with facts. You could just admit your wrong and be done with it.

The facts have been presented here. Now it is up to all interested to decide.

Armotech and Tippmann make great products for what they are used for. Most of our customers are looking for the M4 or MP5 look so the A5 matches the MP5 players better than the WS66 or WG65 and viseversa.

Personally, once I get my WS66 A1 I will give the A5 the sidelines while I test my long awaited marker. I use the A5 alot in creek/river bed play.

Also, if its any help I tested two sim 4s. The lightweight was very nice but the overal durability of the marker was poor. It was ok to have spyder threads but its a bit deceiving because you must have the "humps" to attach handguards.
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:23 PM #16
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Here add the prices up on your own.

www.proteamdirect.com
Manufactors website.
www.paintball-online.com
Large paintball website
www.888paintball.com

Check all the sites you want. The numbers add up. I have been playing paintball for 8 or 9 years now off and on. I do know what I am talking about. If you would like to see a list of folks I sent free stuff no problem.

Once again lets not spin the facts.

Fact is Tippmanns are cheaper and Devil Mountain didnt know what he was talking about. I called him out on his statement.

Where did you buy your gun from? Got proof of purchase? For some reason I dont believe you paid 700.00 for a 98 Custom, Stock, and Flatline.

Here is tippmanns pro shop page. Its way cheaper than 700.00 and has a remote coil, go figure. Once again Spin. http://www.tippmann.com/proshop/stealthline.asp

Matt can you prove we didnt send out what we said we would? I want to see some cold hard proof. You'd better have some good proof to accuse a company of using "Scandels." I believe that falls under Slander.
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:51 PM #17
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ArmoMatt311, don't bash on someone or there business without offering proof. Did this guy give you a bad deal on something you bought from him? Let us know then. Right now it only looks like you're grabbing at straws because he disagreed with you on the current topic.

Back to the current topic: I have a Sim-4 and have shot the A5. Both are great guns. Just like Expertshot said, it all depends on the feel you are looking for. Durability wise, I have had no problems with my Sim4 at all. The gun does have it's cons though. It shoots over 400fps right out of the box, and you have to either break the velocity spring in or cut it to get it down to 300. Just like ArmoMatt311 said, the A5 does have a feeding problem if you are not using the right paintballs. Draxxus works the best. The A5 I shot didn't like the Evils I use in my Sim4.

Alll in all. Both guns will serve you well once you get by the kinks.
Sorry I can't tell you anything about the WS or WG series models. I wish I could try one out. I've heard some good and bad things about them as well.
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Old 05-26-2004, 11:59 PM #18
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BRHS,
He is a moderator over on the Armotech US forum. He has a personal issue with me for w/e reason. I run a clean business and make sure my customers are happy. I have a long list of customers with proof of that.

From what my assumption is from the currentyly active users deal on the Armotech forum he went and emailed Matt to have him come on and bash me for no reason.

Thats fine, it just shows how unprofessional the two of them are.

BRHS I know a guy in California. Owns two Sim4s buys from us all the time and agrees with you. He has had 0 problems on his Sim4. I think some of the hype came from people quick to bash them because of the distributer change.

I based my review on fair and balanced information. I had a handguard on one of the Sim4s I tested break after about 15 min. of play. When they first came out it was a tuff time to adjust the velocity. I dont know if they fixed them or not yet.

I personally like the A5s allen wrench velocity adjuster the best. Ease of use and I know just the amount of cranks to turn it.

The Sim4 is very light and I was impressed with that and the top cocking on them. Glad you enjoy your marker! WS66s are worth the try. Right now there isnt a whole lot out there but I know several people in California that own them. Maybe we could hook something up for you to try one. Pm me and we can work out the details.

Im curious to hear what you think, fair and balanced of course.

I have never had a problem with my A5.
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Old 05-27-2004, 12:22 AM #19
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i've never had a problem with my wg-65 either..the a5 is a gas hog...fact...its a good gun but so its is the 65...the sim4 is a pos and i will comment on that cuz i worked on one...quick fields strip pins?....needed a hammer and a punch to tap them out.., bolt had a chip in it etc..i am glad i researched and bought the gun i did
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Old 06-14-2004, 08:39 PM #20
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i own a sim 4 it shoot 385 out of the box. cut the spring (ouch) got it legal its been fine .ive shot about 8000 rounds thru it no problems with the gun.the thing i had and i don't see anyone else talken about it is my sim 4 had grooves cut down the whole lengh of the barrel.took it to my dealer armotech had me a new barrel 3 weeks later. i've been very happy

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