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Old 12-04-2008, 12:18 PM #43
SeafoodSALAD
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i think that this is a great idea....I would love to see this carried out, but honestly i don't know if it will go anywhere. I also don't think you should buy the NPPL name, it was just soiled, why keep something thats broken. I think if you are going to start a non profit paintball league, start with a new name.
And what is the PSP doing, because whatever it is it seems to be working; as far as i know they are still in business.

i know the players are not going to stop playing paintball, or 7 man for that matter, so the smaller 7 man leagues are probably going to grow as teams look for a different tournament series. The PSP will most likely also grow, which is good cause i want paintball to eventually expand to a mainstream sport.

if this new paintball league does get off the ground, i think you should keep relatively the same rules that NPPL had, just filter out the stupid rules. for example that your undershirt can only be 4 inches under your pack, or that you can only have one undershirt on under your jersey. And that you must tuck your jersey into your pack in the first place. (ok idk if nppl has those rules but xpsl did so i just figured they were the same.) nevertheless, rules like that hurts the vendors like G7 and any other paintball clothing company that sells those long undershirts. paintball is a team sport, but that shouldn't mean you as an individual can't stand out and express yourself on the field.

aywho, i would also like to help anyway i can. but i think a lot of it is going to have to come from an already established organization. I know the economy is tough right now, and money is tight, but its sad to say "money" is whats going to make this work, not hope.
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Old 12-04-2008, 02:54 PM #44
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Ok, I did not read the first post. I did however see a ****** youtube video where he just mentioned that the NPPL filed for a chapter 7. In case anyone here does not know what that is, it is filing for Bankruptcy. That does not mean that a business is closed or gone or anything like that. That just means they do not have enough income to pay the debts they owe. The NPPL is still around (anyone look at their site lately, no news about it on there), all filing for a chapter 7 does is allows a company to remove all debt and start over again. For example, I bet many of you didn't even know that Circuit City filed for a chapter 7 in the beginning of November, how many of you were shopping in Circuit City on black Friday? I was, they didn't close just because they filed for a chapter 7 (Bankruptcy), what makes you think that the NPPL is suddenly gone? Nothing of the sort is going to happen. I would expect to see a major change in how the NPPL is run, hopefully for the better. They were over charging teams to play and they were not advertising enough to spectators to view the games. Yeah, the Huntington beach games had over 50,000 people, that is not that much when it comes to a spectator sport like the nppl wants to be. They need to take full advantage of this and redo the way the nppl is run, and make is a more player and spectator friendly sport.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:20 PM #45
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Originally Posted by polorboy02 View Post
Ok, I did not read the first post. I did however see a ****** youtube video where he just mentioned that the NPPL filed for a chapter 7. In case anyone here does not know what that is, it is filing for Bankruptcy. That does not mean that a business is closed or gone or anything like that. That just means they do not have enough income to pay the debts they owe. The NPPL is still around (anyone look at their site lately, no news about it on there), all filing for a chapter 7 does is allows a company to remove all debt and start over again. For example, I bet many of you didn't even know that Circuit City filed for a chapter 7 in the beginning of November, how many of you were shopping in Circuit City on black Friday? I was, they didn't close just because they filed for a chapter 7 (Bankruptcy), what makes you think that the NPPL is suddenly gone? Nothing of the sort is going to happen. I would expect to see a major change in how the NPPL is run, hopefully for the better. They were over charging teams to play and they were not advertising enough to spectators to view the games. Yeah, the Huntington beach games had over 50,000 people, that is not that much when it comes to a spectator sport like the nppl wants to be. They need to take full advantage of this and redo the way the nppl is run, and make is a more player and spectator friendly sport.
there is a world of difference between chapter 7 and chapter 11 bankruptcy

Chapter 7 bankruptcy is sometimes also called liquidation bankruptcy. Firms experiencing this form of bankruptcy are past the stage of reorganization and must sell off any un-exempt assets to pay creditors. In chapter 7, the creditors collect their debts according to how they loaned out the money to the firm (also referred to as the "absolute priority"). A trustee is appointed, who ensures that any assets that are secured are sold and that the proceeds are paid to the specific creditors.

For example, secured debt would be loans issued by banks or institutions based upon the value of a specific asset. Whatever assets and residual cash remain after all secured creditors are paid are pooled together to be paid to any outstanding creditors with unsecured loans: e.g. bondholders and preferred shareholders.

Chapter 11 bankruptcy can also be called rehabilitation bankruptcy. It's much more involved than chapter 7 as it allows the firm the opportunity to reorganize its debt and to try to re-emerge as a healthy organization. What this means is that the firm will contact its creditors in an attempt to change the terms on loans such as the interest rate and dollar value of payments. Like its cousin, chapter 11 requires that a trustee be appointed; however, rather than selling off all assets to pay back creditors, the trustee supervises the assets of the debtor and allows business to continue. It's important to note that debt is not absolved in chapter 11: the restructuring only changes the terms of the debt, and the firm must continue to pay it back through future earnings.

If a company is successful in chapter 11, it will typically be expected to continue operating in an efficient manner with its newly structured debt. If it is not successful, then it will file for chapter 7 and liquidate. In both instances, common shareholders will most likely see little (if any) return on their investments.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:25 PM #46
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Well, at least you know something about it. It still does not mean that the NPPL is gone.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:28 PM #47
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Well, at least you know something about it. It still does not mean that the NPPL is gone.
Yes it does. Where is a bankrupt company going to get 800,000+ dollars to start over? From the CEO who stole their money? From all the people they pissed off and laid off when they tried to stand up for the company? No. NPPL as we knew it is gone.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:33 PM #48
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Well, a little upset are we? I will believe that the NPPL is "gone" when they put an official press release on their site. The information to be gathered from this site or anything like it, is not exactly reliable. I take anything I read or see on here with a grain of salt (or less if possible), most of the time it is people over reacting to something ridiculous or not true at all.

Oh, and how do you know how much it cost them to start over, are you sure it is 800,000 or did you just hit some random numbers on your keyboard. Who did they piss off? Were you laid off from a company that went bankrupt? What CEO stole money from the NPPL? I think you may be confusing this with a company like Enron or the many banks and other companies that are robbing people blind while they pad their pockets to pay for private jets to fly them to Washington to ask for money. Get your stories straight.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:36 PM #49
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Originally Posted by polorboy02 View Post
Well, a little upset are we? I will believe that the NPPL is "gone" when they put an official press release on their site. The information to be gathered from this site or anything like it, is not exactly reliable. I take anything I read or see on here with a grain of salt (or less if possible), most of the time it is people over reacting to something ridiculous or not true at all.
Ionic Moron is right..

NPPL is not going to put it on their site site soo if your waiting for that you should prob. forget about it.
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Old 12-04-2008, 03:40 PM #50
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Polorboy, you need to research your post as the information you have given is incorrect. Circuit City filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy on Nov. 10, NPPL has filed Chapter 7, and in essence is "up for sale". There is a huge difference between the two and should not be confused. Chapter 11 bankruptcy allows restructure of the company and the corporation to remain in possession of assets. A chapter 7 bankruptcy case does not involve the filing of a plan of repayment as in chapter 11 or 13. Instead, the bankruptcy trustee gathers and sells the debtor's nonexempt assets and uses the proceeds of such assets to pay holders of claims (creditors) in accordance with the provisions of the Bankruptcy Code. Part of the debtor's property may be subject to liens and mortgages that pledge the property to other creditors. In addition, the Bankruptcy Code will allow the debtor to keep certain "exempt" property; but a trustee will liquidate the debtor's remaining assets.

My apologies for those I have offended as I did not intend for this to be a flame post. I have been in the paintball arena for 6 years now and this is a very sad moment in paintball history. I think we all agree that the NPPL needs restructuring and a more "by the people, for the people" feel. Chipmunk has proposed an excellent idea, but it will take a lot of support from "the people". The NPPL name has made a large wake and has number of big name sponsors already. There is already a foundation formed, why throw it away? Starting new is just that, starting new. I for one believe this is an EXCELLENT solution to keeping the NPPL around. There are a number of posts floating around with people complaining about the NPPL going bankrupt. Chipmunk's post is the first I have seen where someone has stepped up to the plate and is willing to take action. The time for talking and half-measures are over. It is time to make something happen. Chipmunk, let me know where to send the money when you get the non-profit set up. You have my full support!
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:09 PM #51
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just wanted to post (didnt read enough to see if it was posted already)

non-profit companies still have payrolls... People who work for them aren't always volunteer based... If this was started as a non-profit league, there would (could) be people that WORK for the league and get paid to do so.
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Old 12-04-2008, 07:37 PM #52
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just wanted to post (didnt read enough to see if it was posted already)

non-profit companies still have payrolls... People who work for them aren't always volunteer based... If this was started as a non-profit league, there would (could) be people that WORK for the league and get paid to do so.
It's a thread with a decent amount of long posts so I don't blame you for not reading the whole thing. But yes, that has already been posted.
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Old 12-04-2008, 09:56 PM #53
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hey im down to donate money..and people were true ballers they would donate some $ to help out their sport.. imo so pm me when you gut that site up to donate cash
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Old 12-04-2008, 10:21 PM #54
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same here i will donate as much as i can
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:13 AM #55
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In California it takes about 9 months to go through legal filings to get recognized as a 501c3. Without the 501c3 none of the donations or sponsors will be considered tax deductible. So if you are thinking about becoming a 501c3 non profit organization. You should start sooner then later. Also, it takes just under a $1,000 in fee's to get the non profit status. But, with the non profit organization and 501c3. It really opens up doors and sponsors are willing to donate that much more because of the tax writeoffs. Hope this helps. If you need need sny help with the Article of Incorporation to become a non profit organization, let me know. I'll do what I can to help. Pm me if you have any other questions or ideas.
Guys,
Sorry I haven't been about for the last day and a half. I will try to address what I have seen when reading through the posts since my last. If I miss someone or something specific I apologize in advance.

I quoted this post in particular because it was the one that spoke to me the loudest, mostly because of what I know about the process. Yes it will cost around $1000 to file federally as a 501c3. It's actually in the 800 ball park, but we won't argue that at this point. It however doesn't need to take 9 months. It also shouldn't be based on the state you file from as it is a federal filing. You can request an early decision from the IRS. It isn't called an early decision but the real term escapes me at the moment. With this you can receive a decision from the IRS in as little as 3 weeks. Also this gives us a 501c3 filing number that can be used just as a business license number. Using this number we can accept donations and they will be tax deductible. Technically we can start accepting tax deductible donations as soon as I file the state paperwork, but that sets a time line of 18 months to file the federal paperwork.

Enough of the filing specifics, I know that is not why most people come to this thread.

The idea of not purchasing the NPPL name has been discussed. The sponsors have been soured and relationships may have been severed due to the recent discoveries.

The website is currently under construction. I will use my own funds to file the paperwork on Monday and with that paperwork I will be starting a bank account so we can get the donations going. I will be making a trip soon again on my own dime to Maine to meet with the heads of several well known and well funded non-profits to get support and guidance on the finer business aspects of our endevour.

I want to make everyone aware, especially those that plan to donate, that this is no free shot. As was posted by someone else, we can't expect people to simply throw money at us. It simply gives us a different avenue to approach potential funds.

Thank you all for your support and as I have more activity to post instead of simply the ideas behind the league, I will let you know. Also thank you all for your ideas for the league. I will look over them all and take them to heart to help us out as a group of paintballers.
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Old 12-05-2008, 12:41 AM #56
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wow.
Once you file the paperwork, you should post this in the news section. You'll get alot more views and publicity there. I really hope this whole thing works.
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Old 12-05-2008, 10:56 AM #57
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Just let us know where to donate money. I'm up for saving the NPPL.

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Old 12-05-2008, 03:47 PM #58
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id be down to donate if you showed us how possible this would be...and mabey instead of a non profit you could just team up with a company like smart parts who is already looking into buying the series keeing up with cash prizes keep it just a PSP event would be run just with the sane 7man format and style we love.
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Old 12-08-2008, 05:46 PM #59
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brilliant idea......i love the NPPL and the 7 man layout....I think its the way paintball should be played!

I am willing to help out any way I can. Let me know!
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Old 12-08-2008, 09:43 PM #60
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Just out of curiosity, what is your charitable purpose?

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Old 12-09-2008, 09:29 PM #61
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Hi Chris. Non-profit doesn't have to mean charity. A non-profit organization can exist to serve it's members. Much like the masons or the elks. At least I believe they are non-profits.

I was viewing this as a membership non-profit. The non-profit was responsible to its members and provides well run, organized and (with some support) attended events. Hope this explains our purpose well enough.
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Old 12-09-2008, 09:41 PM #62
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You're correct that non-profits don't have to serve a charitable purpose.

But 501(c)3 non-profits MUST serve one of a specific list of charitable purposes.

Non-profits that just exist for the benefit of their members can *NOT* accept tax-deductible contributions.

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Old 12-09-2008, 09:56 PM #63
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I hate to disagree with you here Chris. Granted the membership part you may be right, I will have to look into that one. However, the document found on the IRS website http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p557.pdf states and I quote "An organization may qualify for exemption from federal income tax if it is organized and operated exclusively for one or more of the following purposes." and listed in that list is "Fostering national or international amateur sports competition"

So it seems to me that this fits exactly in the IRS definition of a 501c3. And this is the June 2008 revision so I would have to think that this is pretty up to date.
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