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Old 11-15-2008, 03:25 PM #43
flarkey25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slave2theAxe View Post
OK...I enjoy both formats but am more of a 7 man fan.
You can't really say XBall is a thinking game when there is coaching telling players where to move/look/shoot.

7 man relies more on the skills/insticts of the player and thier teammates.

I think sideline coaching takes away from the skill of the game. XBall would be better without it.
We (TPA) have won/done well at events in both leagues, so I think I have some room to talk. People with very litte to no experience with coaching in Xball vastly over exagerate its effect on the game. From everyone I've ever heard talk trash about it, they always seem to think the players just sit there and wait for someone to tell them what to do. Like Chris was saying, by the time the coach processes what's going on, relays that information to his player, and then the player acts on that information any good player will have capitolized on that move and things have changed drastically.

I think this has done more to make players more instinctual than they are in 7-man... It's obvious when watching from the sidelines when a player wants to move. People start to move around certain ways and just have mannerisms about them that alert you to what they're about to do. With coaching, the other team is more likely to know that you're ABOUT to move, and can switch lanes to stop it quickly. If you put a guy in and move as soon as you think you can, you're much less likely to let their coach know ahead of time. This is how I personally get like 80% of my kills in Xball. I put my guy in, dive to the next bunker and shoot cross field before anyone can act on it. If you take time to second guess your moves and shots, someone is going to know about it.

When we go to events, we specifically tell anyone that might be coaching us NOT to tell our players what to do... All we have our coaches do is call out positions, and maybe tell the front guys which way their back guys are looking. If you have someone yelling in your ear trying to tell you to do things, and you're trying to think about things you should be doing it just confuses everyone and slows you down.

In my opinion, the only thing ramping does is take away the advantage a team gets from playing on one side of the field versus the other from which they'd be shooting left handed. For example, a lot of teams will try really hard to get to play on the one side of the field so that they can play the snake side with their right hands. That aspect is eliminated, so you can't just walk down the field because the other team can't shoot as fast from the side they're playing on. It's a huge equalizer and takes the technology/equipment aspect out of the game. Think of it like restrictor plates in NASCAR. You can't just rely on superior equipment to beat the other guys. It has almost completely gotten rid of cheater guns too. Before ramping, you'd go to an event or even practice and most of the serious tournament teams had some sort of modified software on their guns to shoot faster. That just isn't very prevelant anymore, so you know teams aren't winning because they used illegal equipment and had an advantage other teams didn't.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:31 PM #44
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I watched the World Cup webcast and I'm currently watching the NPPL webcast.. I gotta say I enjoy playing NPPL style more, however I enjoy watching the PSP more. Although... that might just be because Matty Marshal was the commentator for World Cup lol.
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Old 11-15-2008, 04:49 PM #45
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I just dont see how they get through all of the games considering the amount of time that they take inbetween games.
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Old 11-15-2008, 07:12 PM #46
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Also, there is coaching in 7-man. Just not LEGAL coaching. By allowing spectator participation, you take away the advantage given to teams willing to cheat.

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Old 11-15-2008, 09:29 PM #47
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i love npppl because makes you think and stuff.....alot more then xball....

xball you just go out and get kills....nppl you actually gotta get strong plays in.

think about it being chess and checkers. nppl is like chess where it takes longer and is more stragety. xball is like checkers its an eating frenzy lol
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:46 PM #48
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Originally Posted by ycpb View Post
i love npppl because makes you think and stuff.....alot more then xball....

xball you just go out and get kills....nppl you actually gotta get strong plays in.

think about it being chess and checkers. nppl is like chess where it takes longer and is more stragety. xball is like checkers its an eating frenzy lol
VERY true.

7 man requires ALOT more gun skill and thinking/strategy.
XBall is go out and keep pounding on the trigger the whole time.
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:46 PM #49
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nppl's great to play but not great for supporting team viewers, imo
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:13 PM #50
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VERY true.

7 man requires ALOT more gun skill and thinking/strategy.
XBall is go out and keep pounding on the trigger the whole time.
How much xball have you played? Real Xball at a PSP event...
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:21 PM #51
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Originally Posted by ycpb View Post
i love npppl because makes you think and stuff.....alot more then xball....

xball you just go out and get kills....nppl you actually gotta get strong plays in.

think about it being chess and checkers. nppl is like chess where it takes longer and is more stragety. xball is like checkers its an eating frenzy lol
this man speaks so much truth. thats just a perfect example imo. i would sig it but have no room lol.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:41 PM #52
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The reason why Xball is more exciting is because you actually have to be a semi athletic person to play Xball and endure constant games after games of it. NPPL is slow paced, people are on two knee's it's just slow in general and I really never want to play on a team who plays it.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:43 PM #53
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Seriously, I want to know how many of you have actually played both formats in the national tournament setting... I think a lot of you have these misconceptions of a format you've never even played.

If you ask me, Xball is much more of a thinking man's game. You have to play that team, at a bare minimum, 5 times in D3 and 7 times in D2/D1. Most games aren't blow-outs though, so you'll usually play each team a good 7-10 times per match. That means you need to go out there, win a point, come back out and try to win another point after the other team seeing exactly how you put together your game plan just two minutes prior. So, unless you are really just leaps and bounds better than the other teams in your division, you have to be able to make play choices that will keep it varried enough that the other team won't be able to know exactly where you're going every point. We've taken advatange of teams who haven't done this in the past. By all means, some of them may have had better gun skills, but they always did the same thing. By the 3rd point, we knew exactly where each guy was going to go off the break and where everyone was going to look once they got to their bunkers. We switch a few guys' guns and send someone to a different bunker and completely destroy them the next 6-7 points...

Good teams, however, will lose a point and then completely dissect your plays. If you sent a guy hard snake side when you won, you better believe they're going to have two guns on that snake... Or will they? Maybe they are expecting you to push the D side hard since you just pushed snake the last point, so they're going to put two guns D-side? Or maybe they noticed your laners shot from the center towards the outsides, so they're going to send someone X to get all your shooters stuck in the center and try and hit a guy running out wide... You have to take all that into consideration in the next minute and a half or so while you're loading your pods, getting air and cleaning off hits, and then come up with a play you think will work against how this team has been playing you.

7-man you just kind of flip a coin on how you think they'll breakout and hope for the best. Once you get into finals and the best of 3 format kicks in you get some of that game play thinking going on, but for the most part if you send a guy snake OTB against a team and make it, and then win the game you beat that team and move on. In Xball you have to be able to replicate that at least 7-10 times, per team. Good luck with that.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:53 PM #54
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i agree with you nppl is sooo boring
theres no objective to get a flag so all they do is chill and shoot
i love psp and xball those games are insane!
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:19 PM #55
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Originally Posted by flarkey25 View Post
Seriously, I want to know how many of you have actually played both formats in the national tournament setting... I think a lot of you have these misconceptions of a format you've never even played.

If you ask me, Xball is much more of a thinking man's game. You have to play that team, at a bare minimum, 5 times in D3 and 7 times in D2/D1. Most games aren't blow-outs though, so you'll usually play each team a good 7-10 times per match. That means you need to go out there, win a point, come back out and try to win another point after the other team seeing exactly how you put together your game plan just two minutes prior. So, unless you are really just leaps and bounds better than the other teams in your division, you have to be able to make play choices that will keep it varried enough that the other team won't be able to know exactly where you're going every point. We've taken advatange of teams who haven't done this in the past. By all means, some of them may have had better gun skills, but they always did the same thing. By the 3rd point, we knew exactly where each guy was going to go off the break and where everyone was going to look once they got to their bunkers. We switch a few guys' guns and send someone to a different bunker and completely destroy them the next 6-7 points...

Good teams, however, will lose a point and then completely dissect your plays. If you sent a guy hard snake side when you won, you better believe they're going to have two guns on that snake... Or will they? Maybe they are expecting you to push the D side hard since you just pushed snake the last point, so they're going to put two guns D-side? Or maybe they noticed your laners shot from the center towards the outsides, so they're going to send someone X to get all your shooters stuck in the center and try and hit a guy running out wide... You have to take all that into consideration in the next minute and a half or so while you're loading your pods, getting air and cleaning off hits, and then come up with a play you think will work against how this team has been playing you.

7-man you just kind of flip a coin on how you think they'll breakout and hope for the best. Once you get into finals and the best of 3 format kicks in you get some of that game play thinking going on, but for the most part if you send a guy snake OTB against a team and make it, and then win the game you beat that team and move on. In Xball you have to be able to replicate that at least 7-10 times, per team. Good luck with that.
well spoken. i've played PSP xball for over a year straight and played with d1 - semi pro NPPL teams. And from what i've seen this man is right on the money.
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:35 PM #56
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anyone can have this arguement.

7-man is more of deffensive. yea 1 person moves the whole time the rest of the people dont move until there are like 2-3 guys out. But they can get some really sick games.

5-man Xball is more exciting cuz its real fast, Its basically shooting and non-stop movement. and since its PSP mode, when ppl get shot there taking like 20+ so it makes it alot cooler. Xball gets alot of sick games cuz just about every game someone gets there shyt pushed in
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:24 AM #57
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7-man is a slow, methodical format. X-ball is about pounding the other team into submission before they can even figure out what's going on. Because the X-ball matches allow for enough games to let teams adapt (or in some cases, try to adapt), there's more to it than simply shoot/move/shoot/move. I practice both 7-man and X-ball/5-man. I enjoy both for their unique formats and challenges. I would not go so far as to say that one format is decidedly harder than the other, but I can tell you that the players themselves are not all that different from each league. Both the NPPL and PSP have wide ranges of players, from the mindless robots without good mechanics, to the blazing fast people that can think for themselves or just play the role of puppet under the command of their coach. To say that X-ball players do not have good gunfighting skills would be silly - winning teams have the kind of players that can shoot their way from bunker to bunker in a matter of seconds even if someone else is posted on them or ramping through the running lanes.

Please remember that the PSP was in part created to provide the public with a faster paced format that is easy to watch. Even though as a player of both formats I can easily follow and be entertained by the NPPL webcast, I could easily understand why a non-paintball viewer gets bored with 7-man games. Say what you want, but 7-man is slow. You have 5-10 seconds of breakouts follow by several minutes of sitting back and shooting lanes. Then you have 10 seconds of closing out games as multiple bodies fly down the field to shoot out the last player. In X-ball you have a lot of movement, a lot of back and forth battles. It may not be a clearly superior format, but it's still a much better format for television with the constant action. The only time you're going to see no movement for more than 30 seconds is if teams get low on paint or it's a tie and nobody wants to give it up.
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Old 11-16-2008, 10:43 AM #58
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imho the only reason I play nppl 7-man style is ramping. the basic skill of being able to hammer on a trigger without the help from a computers is something that will keep me from psp no matter what. semi all the way.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:04 PM #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eforcegtid00d View Post
7-man is a slow, methodical format. X-ball is about pounding the other team into submission before they can even figure out what's going on. Because the X-ball matches allow for enough games to let teams adapt (or in some cases, try to adapt), there's more to it than simply shoot/move/shoot/move. I practice both 7-man and X-ball/5-man. I enjoy both for their unique formats and challenges. I would not go so far as to say that one format is decidedly harder than the other, but I can tell you that the players themselves are not all that different from each league. Both the NPPL and PSP have wide ranges of players, from the mindless robots without good mechanics, to the blazing fast people that can think for themselves or just play the role of puppet under the command of their coach. To say that X-ball players do not have good gunfighting skills would be silly - winning teams have the kind of players that can shoot their way from bunker to bunker in a matter of seconds even if someone else is posted on them or ramping through the running lanes.

Please remember that the PSP was in part created to provide the public with a faster paced format that is easy to watch. Even though as a player of both formats I can easily follow and be entertained by the NPPL webcast, I could easily understand why a non-paintball viewer gets bored with 7-man games. Say what you want, but 7-man is slow. You have 5-10 seconds of breakouts follow by several minutes of sitting back and shooting lanes. Then you have 10 seconds of closing out games as multiple bodies fly down the field to shoot out the last player. In X-ball you have a lot of movement, a lot of back and forth battles. It may not be a clearly superior format, but it's still a much better format for television with the constant action. The only time you're going to see no movement for more than 30 seconds is if teams get low on paint or it's a tie and nobody wants to give it up.


I think a good example of this is teams like the Ironmen who play both leagues... When they're winning in one league, they tend to do extremely well in the other.

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imho the only reason I play nppl 7-man style is ramping. the basic skill of being able to hammer on a trigger without the help from a computers is something that will keep me from psp no matter what. semi all the way.
If you think everyone, or even a vast majority of people in NPPL are shooting semi, you live in a world most of us with we did... Before ramping was introduced you were hard-pressed to find a team in any league without at least a couple illegal ramping guns. Some people did it so they could have an advantage, and the rest of them did it because they didn't want to be disadvantaged to the other teams doing it. Ramping did away with a lot of this in the PSP. They have a very easy to enforce rule, and it becomes pretty obvious when someone isn't following it. Besides, it is kind of pointless to try and cheat the system when your gun ramps to 13 if you're pulling 5 bps anyway... It gets rid of illegal advantages. I think if you really were able to check all the guns of all the players in NPPL, you'd be disgusted by how many were illegal, and not just technically illegal, like pretty grossly.

I knew a player on a highly competitive semi-pro team in the NPPL, and his gun would ramp to about 20ish balls a second after a certain trigger pull combination, but it wouldn't stay 20 bps the entire time, it'd flucuate from like 12 to 20 to 15 to 16 to 13 to 18 so it wasn't obvious. Then, if a ref was starting to pay attention to him, you just hold the trigger down for 1 full second and it goes back to semi. If you think this is an isolated incident, again, you live in a perfect world. So, players playing this team honestly have a distinct disadvantage in terms of running through lanes or trying to battle with this player/s (as I'm sure it wasn't the only gun), and the other team knows this... So what do they do? They go get their guns worked on so that disadvantage no longer exists. People may not like ramping for whatever reason, but it takes illegal equipment advantages and makes them much less effective to the point where I don't even know of any team off hand with illegal programing. The advantage you may gain from a breakout mode or whatever are quickly diminished when you get hit with a PACT timer and you have to sit a guy in the box for the rest of the match. Try playing a decent team 4 on 5 OTB every single point for like 10 points... You're probably not going to fare too well.
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:18 PM #60
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Am I the only one who thinks that the format people prefer isn't something that can be right or wrong?

Or do I have a different definition of "opinion" as everybody else?
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:22 PM #61
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I don't think anyone has said anyone else is wrong for liking a particular format better...
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:26 PM #62
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Old 11-16-2008, 12:40 PM #63
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I'm Right!!!! You're Wrong!

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