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Old 11-15-2008, 01:12 AM #1
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So theres all these threads about how bad the webcast is

I just wanted to bring this up because one of the biggest reasons for paintball on the web would be practice for tv...right? I mean there would be no other reason to do a webcast if they werent trying to practice for the future of spectating paintball. So why such a crappy job this event? Major lag, not so decent commentary and not so good camera angles. Now i know its a "FREE" webcast and if we dont like it dont watch it, but if the whole purpose of the webcast was to practice for the progression of the spectator side of the sport why such a poor job?

Comments?

Please dont flame.
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Old 11-15-2008, 03:04 AM #2
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Over the past few years, the webcast has been a great link for those of us who are unable to make it to an event yet want to see some action. There has been a nice progression of the quality of the webcast, yet sadly the NPPL hasn't figured out how to do it correctly. I am by no means an internet guru with all the knowledge to run the webcast, so I won't be that guy who says they can do it better.

1. Sure, it's free. That is the best price in my opinion, but if I were doing the PR for the NPPL, which is something I do have vast knowledge it, I wouldn't boast about a free webcast that is by no means different than the previous attempts at it. The webcast was laggy, with horrible video quality and filled with "shout-outs" rather than paintball commentary.

2. PSP took a chance with World Cup and followed in the footsteps of the NPPL by charging for a webcast. I was one that coughed up the cash and watched as much as I could. The coverage was amazing, aside from the lack of dorito side camera angles. The commentary was great. The commercials were so-so, but the "History of World Cup" was actually pretty good.

3. If you don't have the kinks worked out, don't put the word out that something is going to happen. I direct that at the fact that you had to view it through a mirror site, and not through nppllive. That makes no sense to me. If I were planning a webcast of a dog giving birth I would do some pre-event checks to make sure that it was working. In the same respect, if I were to plan a webcast showcasing an event, its players, the season finale, and set the stage for upcoming events, I would have done at least a dry run with the host to ensure bandwidth issue were resolved, sound was ok, website worked, and so on.

4. Sadly, this may equate to lost revenue for the NPPL. My thoughts on that are this. If I receive an email from them about a webcast in the future, I'll probably discard it as spam. Regardless of cost, I probably won't watch/suffer through a lagged webcast with no real paintball insight. Sorry, that's not a stab at Nicky T, he's just using what he has at his disposal. I will gladly pay for a PSP webcast based on their showing at World Cup. The NPPL is going to have to step up to the plate next time and actually be ready to bat before attempting a webcast again.

I've done my best at not flaming and trying to make points which I feel are valid. Please follow my example as I have had followed Scott's.
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Old 11-15-2008, 05:06 AM #3
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I have noticed one thing, everyone complains about how horrible it is and how the quality is terrible. This is the first time that this has happened for me on a webcast. I have watched every single one they have done(including the one you had to pay for). I see this as a single event where things haven't worked properly. During the later session I barely had any problems so I didn't mind it freezing for 3 seconds every 10 minutes or so.

So all I ask is for you guys to not make 43207567843560 threads stating the exact same ****ing thing. I am sure they know there is a problem right now and by stating that problem several times it won't make them fix it any faster.

Now dchuck, if I may give my opinion on your 4 points.

1. I agree that the best price to promote paintball is it being free, however they are not promoting paintball as almost the entire crowd watching is already somehow related to paintball. I myself have tried showing the webcast to my friends who have never played paintball and even with the WC webcast none were interested because they had no idea what's going on. I had way more succes just showing them any random DVD where they just saw people shooting eachother and that did get them interested.
So I really don't see this webcast as promoting paintball in any way. As for the lag, I said this in my post above, I have watched every single NPPL webcast they've had so far and this is the only one that has lagged. The quality is about as good as you can expect from a livestream, WC wasn't any better. The easy fix to that is not watch full screen or watch it full screen but sit a bit farther behind the computer, then you see it better. The commentary I don't mind at all seeing as Nicky T does do commentary on the game and in periods of time when they don't have paintball on and there isn't really anything to talk about they use those shoutouts to fill time.

2. Yes I agree the PSP did put up a good webcast. However I would've liked it if they had better cameramen. At certain times during games I would hear them talking about a certain player but the camera man was looking at an empty bunker. They couldn't switch the camera because they barely had any on the field. They had 3 inside I believe, 2 in the pits and 1 in the commentary booth. Now as much as I enjoyed the pitcam I would've loved to have seen it out on the dorito side seeing that on a field like the PSP events tend to have it was rather filled with bunkers and you couldn't properly see what was happening on the dorito side. I often had the idea that one team was winning but couldn't tell that they got destroyed on the dorito side.
The commercials I will say nothing about because that's how they funded the webcast.
As for the history of WC, I agree completly. It was good to watch, the first time. On friday alone I saw the history of World Cup 7 times I believe.
Now my biggest complaint on the PSP webcast was that eventhough it was less frequent than what's happening to the SD webcast, it froze from time to time. That would then require me to reload the page, login again, select my webcast and then I could start watching again. This would happen at random times(could be after 20 second or after 3 hours).

3. As I said in the first part of my post, this is an isolated issue as they have never had these problems with any of the previous webcasts. I am pretty sure it was something unexpected that happened at the event itself that caused them to have to use a mirror site as nppllive.com was working fine up untill when the webcast started.
I do however agree that as the Commanders Cup is the last event of the season it would've drawn in a bigger crowd for the next webcast and promoted the NPPL better had the webcast been working flawlessly, but the truth is that a large part of the people who complain and say they won't watch the next one will probably tune in again at the next one. Even if it's only for an hour. Many people will just watch the free paintball again because it is free. I myself have not watched much this weekend as the timedifference killed me. I fell asleep sometime during the semi pro games, untill that point the webcast was working at an acceptable level. I had no sound issues, it lagged for a bit every 5-10 minutes.

4. I can't disagree with you on this because it's mostly what you're planning on doing and I will not try to convince you to do other, I do however think that the last thing you said is not correct. The NPPL has done several succesfull webcasts in the past, best one having been the Buffalo webcast(which was $10 for the entire weekend). During that weekend I am pretty sure I did not have a single problem and I left the webcast on for 72 hours straight(sound off mostly) and just watched when I had the time.


Now to add something I've just remembered while typing all of this. Last year they had a problem with the webcast too. It was the exact same San Diego webcast. It froze(a little less often than this one) often and people were rather disappointed. So maybe one of the companies they have recruited to help them isn't as good as the others they use for HB, Jacksonville and Buffalo. However it's just something I remembered. Could just be a weird coincidence.

dchuck, this was in no way an attempt to flame you it was just my opinion on what you posted.
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Old 11-15-2008, 06:48 AM #4
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I definitely agree with you on the time issue. I'm in Baghdad and when if finally started, it was 9 p.m. here.

You bring many valid points to light, which I'd love to agree with, though my opinion on things keeps getting in the way.

I haven't been impressed with a webcast, aside from WC, especially those produced by NPPL. I'm a big fan of Nicky T., but the continual shout-outs and babble to fill time is annoying that I would mute it.

Sorry, but it really wasn't worth my time to stick around until 9 p.m. to watch 2 hours of poor video and crazy audio before they took a break. I understand that's the format, but my goodness... with games going on for 2.5 hours before the launch of the actual webcast, they could have addressed some of the issues.

But just as you said, I will attempt to watch the Saturday action. Hopefully people were able to address the issues.
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:22 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottaka_rufio View Post
I just wanted to bring this up because one of the biggest reasons for paintball on the web would be practice for tv...right? I mean there would be no other reason to do a webcast if they werent trying to practice for the future of spectating paintball. So why such a crappy job this event? Major lag, not so decent commentary and not so good camera angles. Now i know its a "FREE" webcast and if we dont like it dont watch it, but if the whole purpose of the webcast was to practice for the progression of the spectator side of the sport why such a poor job?

Comments?

Please dont flame.
I agree, thanks for posting this, it needed to be said.
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:18 AM #6
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seams to me the biggest complaint is nicky T who i think sucks and him thinking this is some webcast he does from his basement, he isant prepaired, i would guess that there is no executive producer no production manager no wrighters, which you might not need if you had good tallent.

as for the camera angles i dont know why they arnt using the D side god cam, its the best camera they have, but im going to fault the directer and i personaly know how hard it is to direct something like this. but you truely have to anticipat whats going on.

ive seen paintball on TV espn has done it and done it right as you can. but i will say this again PSP and NPPL need to ditch the remote camera and use real people there is WAY WAY WAY too much action going on on the field for one person to be adjusting the cameras one at a time with a joy stick. real camera ops will make the diffrince between what we have now and something thats actualy good, and you can get a day higher op for cheap especualy in cali. hell they could just grab someone out of the crowd and be like hay do what this guys says fallow the action.
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:16 AM #7
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They could all take lessons from the NCPA. That was perhaps the best coverage I've ever seen.
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Old 11-15-2008, 11:35 AM #8
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This thread actually makes interesting reading and raises some valid points.

What i think is often neglected is the fact that what appeals to one person might not appeal to another. For example the shout-outs - to some it's obviously annoying, to others it forms an essential part of their interaction with the show.

The webcast (in my opinion) should appeal to all and not limit itself to satisfy the minority. Educating the public about paintball is my priority and i enjoy the non-paintball playing guests as that gives us the perfect platform to talk about the base-level aspects of paintball.

Listening to your comments lets have a policy of minimising the shout outs to the "lulls" between games, or maybe even have designated shout-out times? What are your thoughts?

Email into the show today with your thoughts and lets see where today goes.

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Old 11-15-2008, 11:58 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ches7er View Post
seams to me the biggest complaint is nicky T who i think sucks and him thinking this is some webcast he does from his basement, he isant prepaired, i would guess that there is no executive producer no production manager no wrighters, which you might not need if you had good tallent.
first, learn to spell.

second, nicky been doing this since it first started last year. nicky has been playing paintball for many years, more than you i bet. he has plenty of experience, and does a damn good job commentating. keep up the good work nicky. dont listen to people like this.

third, this is a webcast, not a tv show. there is no reason to have producers, there is no point for writers, its a commentary!
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:02 PM #10
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Yea, Totally agree with you Nicky.. I for one, dont mind the shout outs.. but they are slowly getting to the annoying side of things..
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Old 11-15-2008, 12:33 PM #11
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the shout-outs do get a little annoying but they do fill in the blank spots in between games when they dont have a guest or products to talk about so i see that as accepted annoyance.

but nickyt, see if you can get dancing dan out there again lol
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Old 11-15-2008, 01:17 PM #12
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Thanks for the input guys. Like NickyT points out there are different viewpoints on the format of a webcast, your input helps determine that.

The live chat seems to be popular, each room holds up to 80 people and we have multiple rooms going, allowing conversation and even commentary.

The technical issue from yesterday should have been resolved, techs were working late to upgrade the link out to the parking lot. Those that have been on-site can appreciate this is a tough spot for internet facilities.

We added a local time clock under "Event Info" for those that still struggle with the concept of time zones

Keep it coming.
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Old 11-15-2008, 07:18 PM #13
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They could all take lessons from the NCPA. That was perhaps the best coverage I've ever seen.
In all fairness, the NCPA coverage takes tens of thousands of dollars WITHOUT paying for the live feed and 6 weeks of editing. So while I agree our coverage is the best , a live webcast doesn't have the benefit of the number of cameras and 6 weeks in the editing room.

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Old 11-15-2008, 09:12 PM #14
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i just want to say that today was alot better than yesturday.i think that there needs to be a webcam for the other side of a field that nicky t or whoever can watch it and imediatly see wats going on the other side

today was good tho
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Old 11-15-2008, 09:53 PM #15
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Nicky T, I don't mean any disrespect or anything... but in all honesty you're too laid back in the commentating. I don't feel you get into the game enough, don't talk enough, and a lot of times it seems everyone feels the need to talk about something else besides the game that just started. Although that's not quite as much of a problem with the pro teams which is understandable as it's a lot more interesting watching the pros play.

Take notes from Matty Marshal, he gets into the game.. he sounds excited to be commentating and lets you know whats going on. Even when the cameras weren't pointed at the action, you could still go off of what Matty was saying to understand/hear wants going on when the camera guy/director isn't paying attention.

Watching 7-man without a commentator talking constantly about whats going on gets boring pretty quick, as you're usually stuck just watching some guy standing still shoot his marker and the majority of the time you can't see who he's shooting at. Although... I guess its kinda difficult to keep talking if nobody is moving... however if you talk to viewers and mention what you think somebody should do or where a player should go, mention it. Keeps me from trying not to fall asleep watching the webcast.

Again, I do not mean to be disrespectful/rude, but I wanted to share my opinion in hopes to better you as a commentator. I'm sure if I was in the same spot I'd suck pretty bad. You're a good commentator, funny, I enjoy listening to you commentate for the most part, but you could use some improvement.

The live webcast is pretty new to everyone... but I'm sure with more experience the webcasts will become a lot more entertaining for everyone. Thank you for commentating for us Nicky T, it's appreciated!
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:39 PM #16
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PSP did a really good job at world cup, and the camera weren't some ****ty security cameras from the Egyptians that they used to monitor there pyramids. Little bit of an over kill, but the cameras are terrible and just ruin the whole experience. I mean you would think with all of those entry fee's they collect they could throw up a couple hundred dollars more each for some quality cameras. ****, I don't care charge for the thing but make it watchable. Keep the games moving, and don't broadcast the big brothers and big sisters club or whatever. As much as that is great for the sport, and I am very glad that they were able to do this. No one want's to see that, including myself. They should have spent more time talking about the game plan for today, and what was going on at the Commanders Cup. As well as from what I can tell... Does this event seem dead to anyone else?
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Old 11-15-2008, 10:49 PM #17
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it kinda dragged...xball its not stop ya know

i still am enjoying the webcast tho and i like that theres a chatroom on it even though half is a bunch of dumb kids trying to be rich telford or somthin
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Old 11-16-2008, 07:34 AM #18
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Thumbs up

I really see this as a major step and that for most people who are complaining have not been around paintball for more than 5 years. I remember back in the day having the only option was to wait for phone call updates from our field owner Roddy 'Rowdy' MacDonald as the only way to know what was happening at events. Also Nicky has had a very good paintball career and for him to keep himself involved in the sport and to do the webcast I think that there should be more respect given to the players who have helped get this sport to where it is now. One of the major problems with the sport is this attitude "I deserve everything since I bought a shiny marker and all the newest gear" well until there is more support than sales from people things are most likely not going to change that greatly.

I would have to say that most of the time if it is lagging or anything that might not seem perfect than get used to it, this is paintball not football or hockey and they organizations involved are not going to be investing that much into equipment to make sure you at home can see it. Spend some money and attend the events if it means that much to you.

I have done live broadcasting online for many different types of events and for a sports event it is even harder, think of all the things at the event which will affect the way the end result of the broadcast quality will be.

Unlike Xball the turn around is not as quick in 7man and you don't get into a really long match which can be compared to the last point scored.

I think that they are doing a good job for what they are working with. They are showcasing new products and information, they are getting to talk with the pro paintball players and are letting us to see some of the games. I think that is better than having to wait to read about it in a magazine.

I would suggest a few things that would help improve the quality of coverage, have some cameras on the field at the ground level, this will allow to have some better up close images and could make for some good snake coverage.

Having a camera in the pits would make things better than Owen was doing with the interviews, although there would be many times when players are not to happy it would show the real passion that these players have.

If possible having a bit or research on the teams and how they are playing so far this season or even information on the history of the team will always help those who are newer to the sport.

Also since it is getting dark before the games are over if the broadcast booth could get some better lighting it would help when you are showcasing products in the booth.

Cheers,

Adam
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Old 11-16-2008, 09:40 AM #19
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I remember Huntington Beach 07 when they had a host who didnt play paintball regularly and all he did was shout outs. Nicky T knows these guys and i believe he does and excellent job. The quality isnt always that great but that doesnt matter to me because if there was no webcast I wouldn't know what was happening. Thanks Nicky T and all the people who work on the webcasts! -Craig
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