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Old 10-06-2008, 10:56 AM #1
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Midwest Paintball Series – Changes for 2009 Season

As mentioned over the weekend, I’m posting this thread so we can talk about changes for the 2009 season. Below are things that will for sure happen and what is being recommended. This list will be updated as each person brings up recommendations.

For sure will happen in the 2009 MPS Season:
- Registrations will now be through the APPA website (American Paintball Player’s Association). Their website is: http://www.paintball-players.org/
- Fields will not be allowed to have their sponsored teams play at their hosted events unless all members of the reffing staff are hired by the field and are not affiliated with the field in any way. This does not apply to teams who call a field their “home field” and who are not actually sponsored by that field.
- More of a payout to Level 1
- Teams who Ref will receive points based on their Average for the remaining four events they don't ref in. This number will be updated based on the average after each game they play in the season.
- Distinctive sounds starting games
- Head ref to record game time on score sheet
- Head ref will VERBALLY tell the teams what points they got before they sign the score sheet at the end of the game. This will hopefully resolve scoring errors on the scoresheet before they are turned in.
- Ultimate Reff will travel to every event and will be in charge of and will be responsible for the reffing staff that is provided by the fields
- Allowing (1) one Open Class Player (L1) on a L2 roster.
- Reclassification of the Levels (L1 - 5Man Open / L2 - 5Man Novice / L3 - 3Man Rookie / L4 - 3Man Beginner
- I will be leaving in the "bonus points" rule. This had no effect on the overall outcome to any of the Levels in the 08 season. The primary purpose for this is to reward those teams who can play more events and brings them further up the standings.
- Clarrification / Stricter Rules on Padded Jerseys and Undershirts
- Increase in entry fee (cover appa fee, nicer prizes, tropies, ultimate)
- no more paypal fee


Things that are only being considered for the 2009 MPS Season:
- Over the winter I will try and create an instructional reffing DVD that all reffs must watch and possibly be quized on before they are able to ref at an event. The primary purpose isn't to teach them how to ref (as everyone has different techniquies), the primary purpose of the DVD will be to illustrate the rules of the MPS and a few other curtous things reffs can do to make things go smoother.
- Will re-word paint rule that teams who play both days can shoot paint from one day to the next.
- Possibly a "Traveling Trophy" for L1 Series Winners
- National anthem (this depends on if I can purchase a PA System)
- all star event (wouldn't be after every event, but I could possible see an 7man all star event at event #5. We can vote on players at events 1 thru 4)


Things that were discussed but will NOT happen:
- Full time reffing staff traveling to each event
- 13.33 bps on ramping.... will stay at 15


Post ideas if you got em.

Thanks,

Dan
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Old 10-06-2008, 12:57 PM #2
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just throwing this out there, but the psp field layouts come out like 3 or 4 weeks before the event. Maybe since the series is sponsored by sup air you could get a 09 airball field, take it to every event (ill do this, i have a big truck and trailor) and we could play on the psp fields. This is a great way of the teams that are playing psp next season to get a great practice before the event on the field layouts we will be playing on. Also if this is done i can see more level 1 teams for sure that will be coming, and level 2 as well.
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:10 PM #3
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I have been told by Damien from Sup Air Ball that they may not be able to donate to the series next year because of the economy. He wouldn't know until early next year.

i like your idea though... I've looked for excuses to trade my car in for a truck and get a trailor....

Thanks for your input.

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Old 10-06-2008, 01:16 PM #4
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the game altering move from the nppl rule should be in there
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Old 10-06-2008, 01:45 PM #5
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I browsed the entire rule book for the 2008 NPPL and didn’t find anything about “game altering rule”. I also did a document search looking for this rule and it pulled up nothing. What is this rule you speak of?? Give me a page number or a reference number so I can look into it.

I think we both know that you’re talking about the pod incident that occurred yesterday. I agree with you that the call that was made was a bad call by the ref who made the call. I did find in the NPPL rule book under 11.06 (3): “…The Refere cannot put a player back in after calling a player eliminated…”

Even if that rule that you mentioned did exist, I seriously doubt the MPS would ever adopt such a rule because who’s to say what is “game altering” and what isn’t. If you had a series that re-played every game of what someone’s opinion was of a “game altering” call, that would cause so many other problems that would be detrimental to that event and ultimately the series.

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Old 10-06-2008, 03:10 PM #6
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I really don't like the idea of bonus points for showing up to every event. A series should be based on performance alone, the better team should win. Some teams can't make it to every event, school, work, and money is a big factor in whether or not a team can make an event. A team is penalized by falling even farther back in the standings by not playing. I don't know how it would have affected teams this year. To my knowledge other tournaments don't give bonus points, so why should the MPS.

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Old 10-06-2008, 03:21 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintballTourney2 View Post
For sure will happen in the 2009 MPS Season:
- Registrations will now be through the APPA website (American Paintball Player’s Association). Their website is: http://www.paintball-players.org/
Only had 1 suggestion for 2009 and its for sure happening.
im ready to play in 2009 now
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:24 PM #8
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I really don't like the idea of bonus points for showing up to every event. A series should be based on performance alone, the better team should win. Some teams can't make it to every event, school, work, and money is a big factor in whether or not a team can make an event. A team is penalized by falling even farther back in the standings by not playing. I don't know how it would have affected teams this year. To my knowledge other tournaments don't give bonus points, so why should the MPS.

Just my 2 cents
I know a lot of people liked the bonus points. It isn't intended to hurt those that can't play, but reward those that can. I will look at this and see if the bonus points would have changed the final results. Would like info from other people on this issue before I make my decision.

dan
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:29 PM #9
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I looked and for L1 and L2 it would not have made a difference.
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:30 PM #10
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i think what levi means is that if a reff makes a call that changes the outcome of the game, it should be replayed, or a 1 on 1.
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:31 PM #11
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nevermind....... figured it out.....

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Old 10-06-2008, 03:38 PM #12
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I think it encourage teams to try and make them all. It helped keep the number of teams up. Last year, teams started to fall off the last couple of events. If teams weren't wanting to fall behind in the series, they had to come and by them coming they got an extra bonus. I really don't think it made a big difference in the end because the teams that did win the series prizes showed up to pretty much every event and usually placed in the top 6.
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:42 PM #13
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not to bring it back up but the deal with klub kidz "game altering" was a player got pulled for dropping his pod, and that would have made the game a 4 on 2 us having 4, and he was in snake......... not saying graffiti couldnt have beat us, but the odds would have been more in our favor, but you know somethings not right when the reff says "ya thats my bad" seconds after pulling a player.
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:43 PM #14
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but the whole psp field idea is a really good idea, because those fields would still get credit for holding the event
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:53 PM #15
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the PSP layouts every event would be great, get a lot more teams out that way, just so that teams can practice a few weeks before going to the PSP event. also the "ultimate ref" at every event would be nice too so that each one is reffed the same way.
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Old 10-06-2008, 03:58 PM #16
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i think what levi means is that if a reff makes a call that changes the outcome of the game, it should be replayed, or a 1 on 1.
You are missing the point. You cannot have that rule because every game will be replayed!

I tell you what….

You guys put on your own series or hold your own tournament and have that rule. And when your reffing staff makes a bad call (Newsflash! Every team who loses a game claims that a bad call was made during that game!!!), then you will understand my position!

Also answer the following questions…

1. Name one competitive sport that doesn’t have a bad call every now and then. Point being… everyone makes bad calls including you and myself.
2. Name one competitive sport (that doesn’t have instant replay) that when a bad call is made, the game or play is replayed. I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

I know your mad at the call… trust me, I was upset when I heard the call was made myself. But there is nothing that can be done about it after the fact. That is going back to the basics of paintball! Once you are pulled, no matter how bad the call is, you cannot be put back in. You cannot replay games, because you will NEVER finish a tournament because every game will be replayed because like I said before, every losing team claims that there was a bad call made during that game! My only words of advice…. And don’t take this offensively…. Is if you can’t accept a bad call every now and then, consider taking up a non competitive sport.
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:27 PM #17
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agreed, you may be mad at the time, but realize it doesnt just happen to your team, refs cant watch every angle of every player all the time, or will make a mistake here and there, you just have to learn to deal with it, and keep practicing so that your team gets better, and can overcome bad calls if/when they happen. dan, great job on the series, i had a great time, we wish we would of played the 1st event so we could of gotten a series prize, we were close. cant wait for next year.
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Old 10-06-2008, 04:39 PM #18
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Paint - I think event paint only should be defined as paint by at the event, regardless of what day the paint was bought on (Reality, 3man teams play 5man, Examples: Edge Army, Affliction, etc..) These teams as well as other teams should not have to buy a different kind of paint just because it is a different day.

Scoring A few possible changes on scoring:
1) Ref points should be calculated at the end of the year, and be an average score of the finishes in the year, always rounded up to the next half or whole number (ex: 6.1 = 6.5; ex: 6.6 = 7).
2) Teams that ref should not receive bonus points (unless they play) for playing the event, because well, they didn't play the event, they reff'd it, (why give them points for not having to spend the money that my team did playing the event, they were already given 7, that is more than enough)
3) Players with unobvious hits should be eliminated, not penalized 25 points but another player eliminated as well (1 for 1), if that eliminated all players, flag hang goes to other team (player doesn't know, its "unobvious", the other team should get the elimination, i think that is a reffing problem"

Game play
1) An airhorn or whistle, should be the indicator for start of games, corner referees should hold their arms up at the five or ten second count allowing all players to understand that the game will be starting (and then drop their arms once the games start) This will also help for players with, hearing impairments and would be a generic start that could be used at every event in the future.
-if two fields are playing interchangeably two extremely distinct sound devices should be used.

-Time of game should be noted in upper right hand corner of score sheets

-If a player wishes to check another teams guns for a speed infraction (fps, or ramping) all players guns, including the teams should be checked as well (this will hopefully make sure the claim in realistic and not just because the particular player was bunkered and or they are frustrated with a loss (an issue at mps 1 before finals)

-This "game-altering" rule could also be covered in the situation that, if all players of a team are eliminated due to a penalty the other team regardless of time, eliminations or field position; the opposing (non-penalized team) receives full points for that game. Which is would be up to a referee to actually pull the proper amount of players during certain situations (like when a player gets shot in the back twenty times and continues to run down the field shooting other players)



---i have played ten of the last eleven events in the MPS, these are some of the changes that i think could be made, or at least looked at, just my opinion, some are good and some maybe not as good, but a lot of players talk to me at events and practices following events and some of their concerns are also laid out above.
--I think using the appa and having a traveling ultimate are great ideas and should be put into effect, some minor rule changes and standardization i think will really improve the MPS for next year.

Pity.
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:07 PM #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaintballTourney2 View Post
You are missing the point. You cannot have that rule because every game will be replayed!

I tell you what….

You guys put on your own series or hold your own tournament and have that rule. And when your reffing staff makes a bad call (Newsflash! Every team who loses a game claims that a bad call was made during that game!!!), then you will understand my position!

Also answer the following questions…

1. Name one competitive sport that doesn’t have a bad call every now and then. Point being… everyone makes bad calls including you and myself.
2. Name one competitive sport (that doesn’t have instant replay) that when a bad call is made, the game or play is replayed. I can’t think of any off the top of my head.

I know your mad at the call… trust me, I was upset when I heard the call was made myself. But there is nothing that can be done about it after the fact. That is going back to the basics of paintball! Once you are pulled, no matter how bad the call is, you cannot be put back in. You cannot replay games, because you will NEVER finish a tournament because every game will be replayed because like I said before, every losing team claims that there was a bad call made during that game! My only words of advice…. And don’t take this offensively…. Is if you can’t accept a bad call every now and then, consider taking up a non competitive sport.


I understand that everybody complains about calls and says they got cheated. And yes if the rule was made the way your saying it would be made every game would have to be replayed. But we dont want a replayed game or a series of 1 v 1's just because a team complains.

The ONE way the game should get replayed or go to a series of 1v1's is if the ref who made the call mans up and says "Hey I made a bad call that quite possibly costed that team the game" thats when the rule should come into effect.

Because obviously if the rule were "If you complain and say you got a bad call, then the game must be replayed." Then everyone would complain after every loss.

But We had TWO games where after confronting the refs about the call they said "Hey man sorry i should not have pulled you" one of them being against mayhem that we probably still would not have won, but the other coming when were up 4 to 2 on bodies and get pulled for a non-existant rule, and THEN assesed a penatly when our player got mad at the call. (Which by the way we would have moved up to 3rd place overall if the penalty was not assesed)

So i think everyone would agree that if a REF admits he made a bad call that most likely effected the outcome of the game should be replayed or 1v1's should happen.

Clayton Stauffer
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:14 PM #20
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Paint - I think event paint only should be defined as paint by at the event, regardless of what day the paint was bought on (Reality, 3man teams play 5man, Examples: Edge Army, Affliction, etc..) These teams as well as other teams should not have to buy a different kind of paint just because it is a different day.
Here is the problem with this idea….. those teams who don’t play both 3man (Saturday) and 5man (Sunday) try to sell their left over paint to 5man teams who are there watching on Saturday. This hurts the sales of the field who already have enough overhead as it is. I will see what I can do with KEE to meet in the middle with you guys who fall under this category.

Quote:

Scoring A few possible changes on scoring:
1) Ref points should be calculated at the end of the year, and be an average score of the finishes in the year, always rounded up to the next half or whole number (ex: 6.1 = 6.5; ex: 6.6 = 7).
2) Teams that ref should not receive bonus points (unless they play) for playing the event, because well, they didn't play the event, they reff'd it, (why give them points for not having to spend the money that my team did playing the event, they were already given 7, that is more than enough)

Teams MUST get points! Especially those who compete each year for the series standings. I’m sure if you reff next season, you would want points too. If I did it your way, we would have no reffs because they would all want to play. I do however like your idea of giving away points to the teams who reff based on their average for all the events. Not sure if I’ll round up or not, but I do like the average idea… that was my original thought 5 years ago but got voted down by the field hosts at the time.

Quote:

3) Players with unobvious hits should be eliminated, not penalized 25 points but another player eliminated as well (1 for 1), if that eliminated all players, flag hang goes to other team (player doesn't know, its "unobvious", the other team should get the elimination, i think that is a reffing problem"

You lost me…

Quote:

Game play
1) An airhorn or whistle, should be the indicator for start of games, corner referees should hold their arms up at the five or ten second count allowing all players to understand that the game will be starting (and then drop their arms once the games start) This will also help for players with, hearing impairments and would be a generic start that could be used at every event in the future.
-if two fields are playing interchangeably two extremely distinct sound devices should be used.

Agreed.

Quote:

-Time of game should be noted in upper right hand corner of score sheets

Agreed.

Quote:

-If a player wishes to check another teams guns for a speed infraction (fps, or ramping) all players guns, including the teams should be checked as well (this will hopefully make sure the claim in realistic and not just because the particular player was bunkered and or they are frustrated with a loss (an issue at mps 1 before finals)

I’ll half to think about this one…

Quote:


-This "game-altering" rule could also be covered in the situation that, if all players of a team are eliminated due to a penalty the other team regardless of time, eliminations or field position; the opposing (non-penalized team) receives full points for that game. Which is would be up to a referee to actually pull the proper amount of players during certain situations (like when a player gets shot in the back twenty times and continues to run down the field shooting other players)

You lost me again…



Pity.
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Old 10-06-2008, 05:24 PM #21
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I understand that everybody complains about calls and says they got cheated. And yes if the rule was made the way your saying it would be made every game would have to be replayed. But we dont want a replayed game or a series of 1 v 1's just because a team complains.

The ONE way the game should get replayed or go to a series of 1v1's is if the ref who made the call mans up and says "Hey I made a bad call that quite possibly costed that team the game" thats when the rule should come into effect.

Because obviously if the rule were "If you complain and say you got a bad call, then the game must be replayed." Then everyone would complain after every loss.

But We had TWO games where after confronting the refs about the call they said "Hey man sorry i should not have pulled you" one of them being against mayhem that we probably still would not have won, but the other coming when were up 4 to 2 on bodies and get pulled for a non-existant rule, and THEN assesed a penatly when our player got mad at the call. (Which by the way we would have moved up to 3rd place overall if the penalty was not assesed)

So i think everyone would agree that if a REF admits he made a bad call that most likely effected the outcome of the game should be replayed or 1v1's should happen.

Clayton Stauffer
The only way I would EVER replay a game is if a team goes all day without losing a game and towards the end, they did in fact lose a game due to a bad call. Then and only then if myself, the ref who made the call, the head ref, the ultimate, and the opposing team all agreed that a game should be replayed, will it ever be replayed. This is highly unlikely that this will ever happen.

this is my final decision.
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