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Old 09-14-2008, 09:36 PM #1
LiqTenExp
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G3 APE Upgrade Board Settings and Results thread, post your settings here!

Hey,

We should start a thread/sticky with what your results are with adjusting settings on the APE board. You should mention if you were attempting to get efficiency or trying to be gentle on paint.

I have only adjusted the MGRF BPS with eyes on and the time out. So far its a mad man. I need a qloader or something, my Reloader B2 is getting a workout. To me BPS isn't everything, it's impressive though to see the gun cycling this fast without breaking a single ball.

My best compliment on this board is the Trigger feel is better along with the feedback you get with the LED and Speaker. A cool option is the forced fire to get sound activated loaders to feed the first couple balls. I also like the battery level indicator. Saves time with having to pull the battery and check it after every outting.

Board info from the manual:

POWER ON/OFF
Press the Power button to activate the marker. While pressed the battery level is displayed (Green = above 8.5V, Yellow = above 7.5V, Red = below 7.5V). If a ball is present the marker starts in 1st programmed Firing Mode. If the breech is empty, the Empty Breech alert is displayed (Solid Purple). Tap the power button to start the marker with Eyes Off, or load the breech with paint. To turn the marker OFF, press/hold the power button for 3 seconds.

EYE CONTROL AND STATUS
During firing operations, press/hold the Power Button for 1 second to toggle the Eyes On or Off. The Eye status is as follows: (Solid Purple = Empty Breech / Slow Purple Flash = Eyes Off / Fast Purple Flash = iFault Detected).

FIRING MODE CONTROL
Tap the Power button to select the next mode. No mode changing if Eyes Off or empty breech.

PROGRAMMING MODE
To enter Programming Mode, press and hold the trigger while powering on the marker. Release the trigger. Use the trigger to scroll to the Setpoint you wish to change, then tap the Power button. The LED will blink the current value. Tap the Power button again it indicate you wish to change the
value. Use trigger pulls to enter the value. Tap the Power button once more to store the new value. The LED will then blink the new stored value. Scroll to another setpoint with the trigger, or exit programming mode via power off.

TRIGGER TRAINER MODE
To enter Trigger Trainer Mode, power the marker on and Hold the button for 5 seconds. (LED will faintly flicker WHITE). To use TTM - Pull the trigger as fast as you can. Your per second pull rate is displayed in real time as you pull (Blue - 1 to 5 pulls / Green - 6 to 10 pulls / Yellow - 11 to 15 pulls / Red - 16 to 20 pulls). When the trigger is released, the LED will first blink blue with the average pull rate you achieved, then blink red with the max pull rate you achieved. To exit TTM, power off.

SETPOINT DEFAULT
While in programming mode, pull and hold the trigger for 5 seconds to reset all setpoints to default.

MGRF Eyes ON
This sets the “Eyes On” Max Global Rate of Fire (in Balls per second) of all firing modes.

MGRF Eyes OFF
This sets the “Eyes OFF” Max Global Rate of Fire (in Balls per second) of all firing modes.

BPS Fine Tune
This adds a fractional bps to the MGRF Setting. For example a value of 1 would add .1 to the MGRF.

Tournament Mode
Determines what mode will be locked in for Tournament play when the Tourney Mode Lock Switch is ON. Activate the Tournament mode by placing the Tourney Switch in the ON position and power cycling the marker (the switch is on the back side of the board). Tournament Mode deactivates the MODE button for programming. Setpoint values 1 thru 10 represent each available firing mode in scrolling order (1= Semi … 10 = Millennium)

Tournament Mode Ramp Point
Sets ramping point operation of PSP, NXL, and Millennium modes. PSP and NXL modes use the setpoint as the number of required semi shots before ramping (set to 3 for a tournament legal setting). Millennium mode uses the ramp point as “pull rate” to ramp (set to 6 for a tournament legal setpoint).

Breakout Mode
This setting allows you to select several different styles of breakout modes. All shots prior to full auto are semi auto. Breakout mode is off by default. Refer to the table for operation

Trigger Debounce
This value sets amount of time (in milliseconds) the trigger must remain inactive prior to accepting a new trigger pull. Lowering this value can cause your marker to fire errantly when making successive trigger pulls. Raising this value will prevent errant firing and provide reliable firing in sync with your trigger pulls.

Breech Load Delay
This setpoint establishes the amount of time (in milliseconds) the eyes must see a ball in the breech. This ensures a ball has dropped fully into the breech before the marker fires. This can also compensate for reflective shelled paints. A breech delay of 1-15 runs the marker in “queued” eye operation with a delay between 1 and 15 ms. A breech delay of 16-30 runs the marker in “series” eye operation (subtract 15 from the setpoint value to derive the breech delay). For example: if your setting is 20 (20-15 = 5), you’ll get a 5ms series breech delay.

Eye Mode
While your eyes are functioning, your marker will fire at the MGRF Eyes ON BPS rate. If your marker’s eyes become disabled, iFault™ will automatically switch to the MGRF Eyes OFF BPS rate automatically. If your eye functionality returns, iFault™ will automatically resume firing at the MGRF Eyes ON BPS rate. Refer to the table for Eye operation values.

Solenoid Dwell
This setting allows you to adjust how long the solenoid is energized (in milliseconds). Higher Dwell times will consume more power/air when firing the marker. Lower Dwell times consume less power/air. Lowering this value too much may prevent the solenoid valve from opening altogether.

Anti Bolt Stick Dwell
This setting allows you to add additional dwell time (in milliseconds) to your solenoid dwell setpoint. This will only affect the first shot fired after the Bolt Stick Reset Time is exceeded. A setpoint of 1-3 will provide 1-3 ms of additional dwell and provide a 10 second reset time. A setpoint of 4-7 will provide the same 1-3ms additional dwell, but requires a 20 second reset time. You should only use this setting IF you experience first shot drop off. Values of 4 and 8 provide no anti bolt stick operation.

Bolt Return Delay
This setpoint establishes the amount of time (in milliseconds) after firing a round that the marker waits to see the bolt transition back past the eyes. This value can be lowered when using high performance aftermarket bolts or when a proper tuning procedure is performed. This delay also provides the time out period to determine if an eye fault (iFault™) has occurred.

Burst Mode Rounds
This value sets the number of rounds fired for each trigger pull in Burst Mode.

Reactive Pull Mode Rounds
This value sets the number of rounds fired for each trigger pull in Reactive Mode.

Reactive Release Mode Rounds
This value sets the number of rounds fired for each trigger release in Reactive Mode.

Burst Ramping Point
This value sets the pull rate for Burst Ramping. When the setpoint pull rate is reached, the marker transitions to 2-shot burst. When the 2x the setpoint pull rate is reached, the marker transitions to 3-shot burst.

Reactive Ramping Point
This value sets the pull rate for Reactive Ramping. When the setpoint pull rate is reached, the marker transitions to 1-shot reactive. When the 2x the setpoint pull rate is reached, the marker transitions to 2-shot reactive.

Step Auto Rate
This determines the BPS step rate in Step Auto mode. The Step 1 BPS rate is MGRF - 2x the rate setpoint, Step 2 BPS is MGRF - the rate setpoint, Step 3 BPS is at the MGRF.

Group 1 Firing Mode Enable
Allows you to enable/disable the Group 1 Firing Modes. Refer to the Group 1 Firing Mode Table for values.

Group 2 Firing Mode Enable
Allows you to enable/disable the Group 2 Firing Modes. Refer to the Group 2 Firing Mode Table for values.

Auto Shut Off
Allows you to adjust IF or WHEN your marker will auto shut off after NO firing activity. Auto Shut Off values range from 2 to 20, with each increment adding 3 minutes of time to the delay (6 to 60 min.). A value of 1 will defeats the Auto Shut Off feature, and your marker will remain on until you shut it off.
Non-adjustable features:

Forced Shot
You can force the marker to fire during empty breech conditions by holding the trigger down for one second. Forced Shot is useful for initial paint loading using sound activated hoppers.

Trigger Buffering
Trigger buffering allows you to fire a smooth stream of paint.


Put a * next to any settings that are no longer stock to make it easier to interpret your changes.

Settings Stock (just for reference):

Function Color Default Min/Max
  • MGRF – Eyes On Red 13 5/36 (setting this to 36 = uncapped)
  • MGRF – Eyes Off Red Flash 10 5/20
  • BPS Fine Tune Red Flicker 1 1/10
  • Tournament Mode Green 8 1/10
  • Tournament Mode Ramp Point Green Flash 3 1/8
  • Breakout Mode Green Flicker 13 1/13
  • Trigger Debounce (ms) Yellow 10 1/20
  • Breech Delay (ms) Yellow Flash 3 1/30
  • Eye Mode Yellow Flicker 2 1/5
  • Solenoid Dwell (ms) Blue 15 1/30
  • ABS Dwell (ms) Blue Flash 8 1/8 (4 and 8 = off)
  • Bolt Return Delay (ms) Blue Flicker 25 1/40
  • Burst Rounds Purple 3 2/5
  • Reactive Pull Rounds Purple Flash 1 1/5
  • Reactive Release Rounds Purple Flicker 1 1/5
  • Burst Ramping Point Teal 4 2/8
  • Reactive Ramping Point Teal Flash 4 2/8
  • Step Auto Rate Teal Flicker 3 1/10
  • Firing Mode Group 1 Enable/Disable White 31 1/32
  • Firing Mode Group 2 Enable/Disable White Flash 31 1/32
  • Auto Shut Off Timer White Flicker 1 1/20 (1 = no time out)

Last edited by LiqTenExp : 09-15-2008 at 07:42 AM.
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Old 09-14-2008, 09:41 PM #2
LiqTenExp
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Reserved...

I plan on using this spot for my efficiency settings. I need some more time to play with it.

Function Color Current Min/Max
  • MGRF – Eyes On Red 25 5/36 *
  • MGRF – Eyes Off Red Flash 10 5/20
  • BPS Fine Tune Red Flicker 1 1/10
  • Tournament Mode Green 8 1/10
  • Tournament Mode Ramp Point Green Flash 3 1/8
  • Breakout Mode Green Flicker 13 1/13
  • Trigger Debounce (ms) Yellow 10 1/20
  • Breech Delay (ms) Yellow Flash 3 1/30
  • Eye Mode Yellow Flicker 2 1/5
  • Solenoid Dwell (ms) Blue 15 1/30
  • ABS Dwell (ms) Blue Flash 8 1/8
  • Bolt Return Delay (ms) Blue Flicker 25 1/40
  • Burst Rounds Purple 3 2/5
  • Reactive Pull Rounds Purple Flash 1 1/5
  • Reactive Release Rounds Purple Flicker 1 1/5
  • Burst Ramping Point Teal 4 2/8
  • Reactive Ramping Point Teal Flash 4 2/8
  • Step Auto Rate Teal Flicker 3 1/10
  • Firing Mode Group 1 Enable/Disable White 31 1/32
  • Firing Mode Group 2 Enable/Disable White Flash 31 1/32
  • Auto Shut Off Timer White Flicker 3 1/20 *

Last edited by LiqTenExp : 09-14-2008 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:51 AM #3
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Great work!
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Old 09-15-2008, 10:19 AM #4
LiqTenExp
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DP Ben?

Have you guys screwed around with any settings? I was going to tackle the easy stuff like Bolt Return Delay and Breech Delay first.

The Breach Delay is already set pretty short and seems to have no prob wiht the 3 different kinds of paint I have tried with it. All were different color shells. Some where green/black and some where yellow/red. I haven't run into any fields using reflective shells so this setting seems solid as is.

The Bolt return delay is set for 25ms. With the weight of the stock bolt, do you feel this # is as low as you can go or what? I am going to try the eyes in mode 3 (eyes off but iFault on). This would seem to be able to tell you if the bolt is not out of the way quick enough before starting the next solenoid dwell.

Have you guys tried any aggressive settings on the Solenoid Dwell? Was there a certin low point where you felt it was safe but required the ABS to be turned on?
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Old 09-15-2008, 05:52 PM #5
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Ok, heres what I came up with today...

Breach Delay I didn't bother with. It is already set fairly low and gaining 1-2 ms isn't worth a chop

Bolt Return Delay I did spend some time with...

Test Setup:

To test the gun I put the Eyes in Mode 3 (eyes off but iFault processing on). I put the gun MGRF to 13.3, 15, 25, and 30. I then put the gun into Full auto and allowed it to fire. If the iFault went off, the delay was too short.

Results:

I found about 12-13 ms was required to at least get the bolt behind the eyes to allow another ball in. I would suggest a setting of 15 ms as your base starting point on a stock properly lubed bolt under normal temperatures. You might want to increase this setting as the colder weather sets in. I can see oring wear and lube types causing slight differences. I am using Dow33 and have around 5+ cases through the gun. I will be switching to DP40 and seeing if the results are any different. More to come.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:00 PM #6
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I don't have access to much more paint so Dwell time/reg pressure/fps will have to wait till the next time I play. I do accept donations lol.

I am expecting that if you are really trying to tune the dwell time down to get some crazy bps and/or efficiency you will need to engage the ABS at a certain number. I would like to find that out. Right now I haven't had to use it.

Problem I am going to see with the efficiency route will be that every time you wind up with another brand of paint you could take a chance that the dwell time/reg pressure will need to change so you don't break paint.

We could pick a known fragile paint and set it as a standard to do testing with. Anyone have suggestions on brand. I'll go pick up a case. Most paint today seems to be a lot less fragile that that of 5-10 years ago.

I am not really going to persue the fragile paint tuning road. Most people complain of efficiency on the G3 so thats the plan!

Last edited by LiqTenExp : 09-15-2008 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:29 PM #7
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Just got my board today and I havn't really messed around with it much. I can't wait to use it this weekend though
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Old 09-15-2008, 07:32 PM #8
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ho god it seems soo hard to use XD
i want to get the new board but when i see the price its kind too much for me =( but it does sound REAL nice to have the new board just wish i can get it cheaper
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Old 09-15-2008, 08:14 PM #9
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it actually works very well right out of the box. you could run with the stock settings, change the bps to your likings, adjust the shut off time like i did and be done with it.
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Old 09-15-2008, 09:24 PM #10
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just got mine to...gota wait to use it before messin with settings
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Old 09-16-2008, 06:08 AM #11
LiqTenExp
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yeah, I was very happy with it right out of the box. There is some tweaking to be had.

The trigger is just much more consistent now.
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Old 09-16-2008, 06:38 PM #12
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I had some questions on exactly how did the two breach delays work and here is the answer from APE support:

"Series breech delay requires the wait time AFTER each trigger pull. The ball must be in place for the entire delay time after the pull, so in essence this method adds the breech delay value into overall firing cycle time. This is the most conservative of our eye logic approaches.

Queued breech delay starts looking for the ball during the bolt return delay... a ball will typically drop in right after the bolt returns home, so during this delay period for the bolt processing we also monitor for ball drop. Once we see the ball for the delay time, the ball status is "queued" or remembered. When it comes time to process the next trigger pull, we use the "queued" ball status and fire the marker if the queued status is set true. We virtually eliminate most if not all of the breech delay out of the firing cycle, thus yielding the fastest possible BPS rate (hence it's more aggressive). The downside of this method is if you've got a partial feed tube during empty hopper conditions, the ball once queued "could" bounce out of the breech, and the marker would fire using the "queued" condition.

We provide both methods to allow users to decide what's more important to their marker operation."
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:09 PM #13
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I was watching a review of the gun on youtube, and the only complaint the guy had about the stock board was that it didn't have the psp mode that does a 3 ball burst with every click after you get done ramping. I believe he called it "PsP 3-shot", compared to the G3's psp ramping. Does the Ape board have psp 3 shot?
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:38 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splishsplash View Post
I was watching a review of the gun on youtube, and the only complaint the guy had about the stock board was that it didn't have the psp mode that does a 3 ball burst with every click after you get done ramping. I believe he called it "PsP 3-shot", compared to the G3's psp ramping. Does the Ape board have psp 3 shot?
yes...
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:43 PM #15
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What are your settings? Just go down the list and post them up. I am looking for the best settings for uncapped semi - Thanks for all the input.
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Old 09-17-2008, 09:19 PM #16
LiqTenExp
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for uncapped semi.....

36 mgrf
13-14 bolt return delay
dwell of like 12-14
debounce to 6
breach delay to 2
pray to god
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Old 09-17-2008, 09:21 PM #17
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Good settings for 15 capped semi?

Thanks alot!
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Old 09-17-2008, 09:29 PM #18
LiqTenExp
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stock + mgrf to 15
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Old 09-21-2008, 09:01 PM #19
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i had a good day with my g3 today. the bolt return or breach delay needs to come up some from what i have it set at. my halo v35 or reloader b2 cant keep up with it. they dont get the ball in fast enough how i set it up as described above. the gun cycles fine but paint was a whole different story. i am probably going to go with a queued mode of like 6 to 8 and bring back the brd to something higher like 20-25 also to add more fluff room.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:52 PM #20
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I had nothing but problems with mine. It was just bouncing like mad and nothing I did cured it. I'm going to play around a bit more tonight and see if it's something I did or the board.
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Old 09-22-2008, 07:16 PM #21
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bouncing as far as triggering goes?

I never had a problem with that even with the stock settings.
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