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Old 09-16-2008, 07:20 PM #1
digital sol
 
 
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Virtue Ion Eye Logic....

Im having issues with my virtue board on my ion, sense i can remember with this project marker ive had issues getting it to cycle over 15bps'. Tournament lock is off, rof is set to unlimited, mode is full auto. Now i see that the virtue eye logic will lower the rof if it thinks its a block of some sort instead of a paintball, problem is i believe i thinks every paintball is a block and its constantly putting it in safe mode causing the rof to go down the tubes.....I replaced the eye wire as well as the eyes itself with another stock replacement...Is there any way to test the marker besides simply shooting paint? Was hoping to get this issue fixed tonight and move on to the next marker for a full tune-up etc'.

Eyes on-finger testing rof is 15bps or slower
eyes off- sounds like a machine gun

Worst case ill just get it ready and sling some ropes tomarrow to see if it made a difference. I do have another virtue board for my carbon fiber ion that ill be tinkering with right after this marker is finished. Only other thing i can consider would limit the rof of this marker is the rear section of the marker has been cut off. The total weight of this ion is around 1.5 lbs.

If problem persist i may swap the laser eyes from my carbon ion to this ion, but dont see how it should make a difference, both sets of eyes should perform the same..they either work or they dont work
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:10 PM #2
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Well, it's true the board tracks the movement of the bolt from shot to shot, and will kick it into eye-fault mode if the eyes stay blocked. But you should still be able to test the eye functionality by sticking your finger in the breech with eyes on (no air)....if it fires when you pull the trigger once with your finger in there, and doesn't fire when you remove your finger, then you at least know the eye hardware works. It might be a settings issue though.

If it fires at all times, regardless of an object being in the breech....then the eyes aren't working. Could be a wire (though you said you replaced the harness so it's not likely) but it can also be a wire harness connector problem, or eye problem.
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:29 PM #3
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Well, it's true the board tracks the movement of the bolt from shot to shot, and will kick it into eye-fault mode if the eyes stay blocked. But you should still be able to test the eye functionality by sticking your finger in the breech with eyes on (no air)....if it fires when you pull the trigger once with your finger in there, and doesn't fire when you remove your finger, then you at least know the eye hardware works. It might be a settings issue though.

If it fires at all times, regardless of an object being in the breech....then the eyes aren't working. Could be a wire (though you said you replaced the harness so it's not likely) but it can also be a wire harness connector problem, or eye problem.
yea the eye's hardware works fine, finger in goes solid blue, finger out goes red'

eyes off sounds noid clicks fast, eyes on "eye-logic kicks in and reduces the rof..although ill test tomarrow evening with paint"

if its the board ill know by tomarrow night, as ill just swap it with my other virtue board....although that would be a pita'

i can also check the markers rof's capabilitys by turning eyes off and just dry-firing if it sounds like 15bps even with the eyes off than the marker has other issues ill need to address, the firing assembly has been altered quite a bit but i dont think it should lower the rof's too badly, more than likely just lower efficiency a bit'

im honestly thinking its a board issue considering the eye hardware worked fine before for the ball test and such but would just seem very slow with eyes on, it was certainly being capped or restricted', either way i swapped the eye wire and eyes for some other stockers and ill post more about it tomarrow'
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Old 09-17-2008, 06:32 PM #4
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So i aired it up and shot some paint, still feels like 12 bps or slow with eyes on, full auto, eye delay at 1, then 6 no fluctuation's

turned eyes off and heres where it gets interesting...sounds like a machine gun but only fires 1 ball...not sure if its the bolt not retracting all the way or blowback keeping the ball stack from going down...had my vlocity which has dynasty paddle, virtue chip, and boost pack on full force'....

So re-cap
With paint full auto, eyes on, fire at a slow rof
With paint, eyes off, fires 1 paintball, dry-fires like a machine gun but dosnt shoot paint
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Old 09-17-2008, 07:23 PM #5
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ok, i found the problem, now working on how to fix it'

problem is that the bolt is not retracting to the back of the marker fast enough nor all the way, which is why with paint the board is going to safe mode and shooting slow and also why when its in full auto it cycles 1 paintball then just dry-fires..the bolt isnt retracting enough to let the paint be fed into the firing assembly'

first thing that comes to mind is maybe usuing a smaller o-ring on the l7 bolt and/or trying a different qev although ultimately i fear that it is a side effect from removing the rear donut section entirely from the marker'

feel free to chime in with any thoughts on the matter, open to suggestions and idea's
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:12 PM #6
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When set to unlimited, with the eyes off it likes to cycle as fast as it can dictated by the dwell setting and others. It tries to fire as soon as the dwell time is exhausted....so typically (depending on the exact amounts) it equals out to around 40-bps. of course the gun can't cycle that level so it sputters around.

Anyway, weird issue with the bolt. I don't think I've personally run into that with an L7 bolt, although it doesn't mean it hasn't happened before. What I would suggest first is to disassemble and ensure the bolstop is installed correctly, and check for anything notably odd in there. It's possible the bolt is seizing into a bad position and not returning as a result. Although that's very unlikely.
Can you push the bolt back manually, or does it not give at all?
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:40 PM #7
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umm just throwing ideas out what about the anti bolt stick/dwell settings?
any burrs or anything in the firing can. swollen inner bolt stop oring?
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:56 PM #8
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When set to unlimited, with the eyes off it likes to cycle as fast as it can dictated by the dwell setting and others. It tries to fire as soon as the dwell time is exhausted....so typically (depending on the exact amounts) it equals out to around 40-bps. of course the gun can't cycle that level so it sputters around.

Anyway, weird issue with the bolt. I don't think I've personally run into that with an L7 bolt, although it doesn't mean it hasn't happened before. What I would suggest first is to disassemble and ensure the bolstop is installed correctly, and check for anything notably odd in there. It's possible the bolt is seizing into a bad position and not returning as a result. Although that's very unlikely.
Can you push the bolt back manually, or does it not give at all?
yea i can push it back manually, goes back and out smoothly', dosnt look i have another qev to try out....im not a fan of these smart parts qev's but its all i have for now...seems ive given too many spare parts away', ill probably pick up a clippard tomarrow just to eliminate that as an issue, im gonna replace all the o-rings on the l7 just to be sure as well, i supose i could set the rof to 20bps and dry-fire the marker, it should be able to actually cycle that speed therefore even dry-firing i should see the bolt fully return and not just sputter like it is now'
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Last edited by digital sol : 09-17-2008 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 09-17-2008, 08:57 PM #9
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umm just throwing ideas out what about the anti bolt stick/dwell settings?
any burrs or anything in the firing can. swollen inner bolt stop oring?

anit bolt stick is set at 0, this setting is really only used for the first shot if the marker sits without being fired for in most board set-ups 3-5 minutes', ive never had to use this on any of my markers', you shouldnt really ever have bolt stick if everything's working properly
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Old 09-18-2008, 07:23 AM #10
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ok Ydna heres a few ideas i had for later this evening'

i tried swapping qev's how-ever my other is not working properly and i have no other spares i did swap the core of the 360 with another 1 i had laying around....the bolt still retrieves back slowly and full auto eyes off 15bps it still dosnt retract all the way', might pick up a clippard if i cant fix it by tonight

i was thinking possibly trying other detents, maybe the detents and slowly down the re-traction of the bolt? im usuing tech-t detent's, not probable but im trying anything/everything at this point

2nd, i was thinking it could be the way the firing assembly was changed, heres a link to the original build of the gun'

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...ght=lightes t

its changed a little here and there sense then but later this evening im going to remove that rear chamber and replace it with a stock rear firing assembly with the rear donut and banjo fitting and re-test with paint

any other suggestions?
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Old 09-18-2008, 04:21 PM #11
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I don't think the QEV is to blame...unless it ends up pluggin itself suddenly for some reaosn (but at the exact same time every shot). Usually they either work or don't.
You mentioned swapping the cores...if you did that then it's probably good since most obstructions inside QEVs are cleaned instantly just by taking them apart. I think the firing assembly is probably to blame here, not sure how though.

Unfortunately it's sounding more and more like one of those problems that you just have to swap everything out with another part in order to narrow it down...
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:25 PM #12
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I don't think the QEV is to blame...unless it ends up pluggin itself suddenly for some reaosn (but at the exact same time every shot). Usually they either work or don't.
You mentioned swapping the cores...if you did that then it's probably good since most obstructions inside QEVs are cleaned instantly just by taking them apart. I think the firing assembly is probably to blame here, not sure how though.

Unfortunately it's sounding more and more like one of those problems that you just have to swap everything out with another part in order to narrow it down...
o common now, dont tell me that....already did that on a different custom ion project lol'

i was hoping to work on it today but thus...15 hour work days own me.....ill be installing the stock rear firing chamber with the rear donut tomarrow, also may swap detents just to be sure they are not catching the bolt and slowly down the return', if it is the firing assembly ive got a few ideas on how to still keep it near 1.5 lb's and bob'

ill post more on it tomarrow, thanks Ydna
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Old 09-18-2008, 10:39 PM #13
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is this the carbon fiber pretty fohen type ion thing? or am i thinking of a completely different ion project?
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Old 09-19-2008, 02:44 AM #14
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is this the carbon fiber pretty fohen type ion thing? or am i thinking of a completely different ion project?
thats my other ion, this one is a silver ion thats been cut/milled/shaved to hell and back...total weight of the marker is just above 1.5lb's with barrel, its a blast to play with, just wanna be able to sling more paint with it
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:23 PM #15
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yup it was the rear firing assembly, basically the way it was set-up is that the rear donut was cut off the firing chamber and a banjo was jb welded into the rear of the firing can, i replace the firing can with a stock firing can and rear donut w/c-clip and the marker shot perfect, shot much faster than before and the board was capped at 20bps'

ill be installing a ndz firing chamber & rear donut when it arrives...hopefully tomarrow' and then re-tuning/testing'

after everything is set up and such ill probably have the firing can and donut milled to remove any acess weight as possible'....might as well try and still keep the weight down to around 1.5lb's

i should have it all put together/tuned/shooting by sunday and will get some field time with it @ emr
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