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Old 08-26-2008, 07:32 PM #22
Nekrow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokay444 View Post
ps. god is a farse.
Indeed.
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:36 PM #23
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to believe in the devil, logic would dictate you'd have to believe in god also...
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Old 08-26-2008, 08:42 PM #24
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Originally Posted by aaaa1236 View Post
haha, now hes whining and taking cheapshots cause he was proven wrong. I think the arguments over, you gave it your best tokay...
just a statement of fact is all.
another statement of fact, is that an up'd ion, no matter how up'd it may be, will never shoot like a high end gun. plain and simple.
i have proof, because i own both.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:18 PM #25
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Originally Posted by tokay444 View Post
to believe in the devil, logic would dictate you'd have to believe in god also...
Correct, as it is usually believed that God created Satan. However, how could God, a being incapable of doing evil things and who is Omnibenevolant, create Satan, a being of "pure evil" who is only capable of doing evil things? God could not do so, he would have no knowledge of what evil is. It is a logical impossibility.

Also, you are mistaken in assuming I believe in the Christian Devil. There is no God, thus, there is no Devil. I am not a literal Satanist. People who believe in and worship the Devil as a being are just as bad as Christians.

True Satanism (as established by Anton Lavey in the Satanic Bible and the founding of The Church of Satan) is the exact opposite of Christianity. Know your theology.
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:37 AM #26
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i recommend you upgrade everything, and after you do, and you've spent about 800-1000 bucks total, you'll still be left with an ion, that if you're lucky will fetch 200-300 bucks. "don't want to sell it" you say? no matter what anyone else says, no matter how much you put into it, it won't shoot like a high end gun ever.
so what i really recommend, is to start with a better platform to begin with. look for something with at least an adjustable lpr. don't make the same mistake we all have. or is it too late?...
Yes becuase Hi end guns have magical powers that allow you to turn invisible so your opponent and have homing devices that they put in your paint paint that magically make sure every balls hits the target...and oh ya they never break either....

a an electronic paintball gun is an electronic paintball gun. if you like it, and like the way it shoots and your happy with it then you win. I have an epiphany the only problem i had with it was one of the hoses went bad. it is reliable and great to shoot.
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Old 08-29-2008, 10:44 AM #27
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Originally Posted by Nekrow View Post
Correct, as it is usually believed that God created Satan. However, how could God, a being incapable of doing evil things and who is Omnibenevolant, create Satan, a being of "pure evil" who is only capable of doing evil things? God could not do so, he would have no knowledge of what evil is. It is a logical impossibility.

Also, you are mistaken in assuming I believe in the Christian Devil. There is no God, thus, there is no Devil. I am not a literal Satanist. People who believe in and worship the Devil as a being are just as bad as Christians.

True Satanism (as established by Anton Lavey in the Satanic Bible and the founding of The Church of Satan) is the exact opposite of Christianity. Know your theology.
How ever God placed in his Good creations a free will to do evil...your logic is flawed.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:14 PM #28
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How ever God placed in his Good creations a free will to do evil...your logic is flawed.
MY SCIENCE IS BETTER THAN YOUR SCIENCE!

why would anyone eat off of a table when they have perfectly good bellies to do so?
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:12 PM #29
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How ever God placed in his Good creations a free will to do evil...your logic is flawed.
Nope. God is claimed to be a perfect being. Humans are clearly not perfect. The same theory applies. For humans to be flawed, because God created humans in his image, God would also have to be flawed. For God to have created evil, he would have to know what evil is.

In the bible it is said that God is only good. Therefor, according to the basis of most theistic religions, if God is only good, he is incapable of even knowing what evil is.

Religion is a huge mass of contradictions. Free will is a contradiction.

I don't see how my logic is flawed. You cannot prove that God exists, or even created humans. Faith is belief in things for which there is no proof. Certainly not logical at all.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:47 PM #30
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Im sorry you are still mistaken. You can not deny that human being have a free will. Its your free will that allows you to express you ignorance on this topic.

God obviously has a free will. Theoretically his free will is why he created the universe, the earth and all that exist, including you and i. So since we are created in his image we were also graced with this thing called free will. And it was that same free will that makes us capable of doing evil just as well as good.
Nor do you know the the thoughts of God, the wills, or the intentions of God. If you did you would know the simple things that man does everyday that are evil, and you probably don't even feel they are evil...but just because you don't agree with something does not exempt you from it.

You a finite being do not possess the ability to comprehend God who is infinite. I can prove that because no matter how hard you try you cannot comprehend the meaning of infinite. You have no way to grasp a mental concept of it because you have a finite mind with a finite think. and all man kind is that way. you have no more an ability to dis-prove the existence of God to me, as i have the ability to prove the existence of God to you.

I am sorry for the person who started this thread that we have gotten off topic on this
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:35 PM #31
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Originally Posted by monkey_poo View Post
Im sorry you are still mistaken. You can not deny that human being have a free will. Its your free will that allows you to express you ignorance on this topic.

God obviously has a free will. Theoretically his free will is why he created the universe, the earth and all that exist, including you and i. So since we are created in his image we were also graced with this thing called free will. And it was that same free will that makes us capable of doing evil just as well as good.
Nor do you know the the thoughts of God, the wills, or the intentions of God. If you did you would know the simple things that man does everyday that are evil, and you probably don't even feel they are evil...but just because you don't agree with something does not exempt you from it.

You a finite being do not possess the ability to comprehend God who is infinite. I can prove that because no matter how hard you try you cannot comprehend the meaning of infinite. You have no way to grasp a mental concept of it because you have a finite mind with a finite think. and all man kind is that way. you have no more an ability to dis-prove the existence of God to me, as i have the ability to prove the existence of God to you.

I am sorry for the person who started this thread that we have gotten off topic on this

You claim God is all powerful, and all knowing. You also claim humans were made it Gods image and thus have free will. There is a logical fallacy contained within your rational that I don't believe you are understanding.

I'll keep this short...

Omniscience, a term which is typically applied to God by theologians, simply means: Infinite Knowledge.
Free-Will is self explainable. The ability to make choices for ones-self, freely and independently.

1. God is omniscient.
2. Since God is omniscient, God has infallible foreknowledge.
3. If God has infallible foreknowledge that tomorrow you will engage in "event", then you must invariably engage in "event".
4. You must invariably engage in "event".
5. Free Will thus cannot exist.


Therefor, either God is omniscient, or we have free-will, its either one or the other. Since you claim and support both, clearly you are missing something. Feel free to read some philosophy.

If you'd like to continue this, perhaps make a new tread about it. Id love to sit here for hours proving you wrong, over and over and over and over and over.
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Old 08-31-2008, 07:34 AM #32
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why does this forum have to have fights all the time? Can't we all just get along?
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Old 08-31-2008, 09:35 PM #33
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why does this forum have to have fights all the time? Can't we all just get along?
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Old 09-03-2008, 01:40 PM #34
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this forum has fights because people think that the epipahny is a great gun.
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Old 09-05-2008, 01:47 PM #35
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I hate to do keep taking over this guys guys thread, but I would rather believe there is a God and find out I was wrong, then not to believe there is a God and then find out the is. I think burning in hell forever gives me enough reason to believe everything in the Bible is true. I've seen to many things happen that go completly agianst science or anything else to believe there isn't a God. I could go on and on with the guy that doesn't believe there is a God, but thats his own personal choice and he has to live with it when his judgement day does come.

Above all else, God is a God of love. Thats why he gives us free well. He wants us to make the right decision and love him and serve him. What means more to you, that your parents or girlfriend or whatever it is loves you because they HAVE to, or because they choose to. The same applies to God. He would rather us love and serve him because we want to and chose to. He could of always MADE us do what ever we won't, but we would be nothing but puppets.
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:04 PM #36
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kinda ot?
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Old 09-05-2008, 04:17 PM #37
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Originally Posted by Nekrow View Post

1. God is omniscient.
2. Since God is omniscient, God has infallible foreknowledge.
3. If God has infallible foreknowledge that tomorrow you will engage in "event", then you must invariably engage in "event".
4. You must invariably engage in "event".
5. Free Will thus cannot exist.


Therefor, either God is omniscient, or we have free-will, its either one or the other. Since you claim and support both, clearly you are missing something. Feel free to read some philosophy.

If you'd like to continue this, perhaps make a new tread about it. Id love to sit here for hours proving you wrong, over and over and over and over and over.
Actually this is gross over-simplification. First, when using the term "omniscient" in relation to God there is usually a distinction made between inherent omniscience and total omniscience.

1. Inherent Omniscience- the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known.
The argument theologians make in regards to Inherent Omniscience is that God has the ability to limit his omniscience and elects to do so, therefore preserving freewill among his creations. Believing in this concept means your argument has no merit so see number two.

2. Total Omniscience - actually knowing everything that can be known.
The theory of Total Omniscience was originally embraced by Calvinism and more recently the Presbyterian denomination (more commonly applied as Predestination). This is closer to the power you assert all believers accept, however, you have a logical fallacy. You assume that because God knows what will happen you are compelled to do so. Unfortunately, you ignore the middle part of this equation. God, assuming Total Omniscience, is aware the outcome but the choice remains the persons. For instance, you are presented with a choice: you can either A. buy the 08 Ego, or B. not buy it. God may know that you do elect to buy it, but your decision is not influenced by this. He would have known had you elected not to buy it, but the future he foresaw depended upon your decision. His awareness does not negate free will.
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Old 09-05-2008, 08:56 PM #38
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For the OP, you've come to the right place for advice on ANY paintball gun. While I've come to agree with Tokay about the value of the Bob Long Marqs over an Epiphany (I also own both, I've come to hate the epiphany, which is mildly sad because I bought it after the Marq as a gun for my girlfriend to use. Since she seems to considerably better with cheap Spyder knock offs, the Epi has simply been a constant frustration.) I recommend you try to read through the stickies and remember that all Ion parts are compatible with the Epi as well, so you can also take a look at the Ion forum for help or upgrade advice.

I really wish this religion discussion wasn't so off-topic. I'd like to talk with you guys. I agree with monkeypoo, nate, and russ. Nekrow, while you may feel you're winning the argument "over and over and over and over and over", you're really not "winning" until you've proposed something which completely stumps the opposing group. I would simply like to know what compels YOU personally to wake up every morning, go to work, sit at a desk and do everything that is against carnal nature. Personally, if I didn't believe in a God, I would have probably robbed several banks and killed whoever stood in the way of my own personal gain. Whether you believe it or not, God does exist and he is the entire reason we have a conscience, which is the entire reason we have any morality whatsoever. (Yes, I know there's an argument against this. I've been through this whole discussion many times. Apparently, we humans, being the pinnacle of evolution as we are, have somehow evolved a sense of morality. We just "happened" to find logic in our quest for the top of the food chain.)

If you guys go somewhere to further discuss this topic, I'd like to be included so please send me a PM. The mods will undoubtedly be in shortly to shut down this thread.

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