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Old 05-29-2008, 10:08 PM #1
xluben
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****Dangerous Power Regulator Info/Warning**** (velocity problems = READ THIS!)

************************************************** *
Correct Shim Stack Orientation:

)()()()(

There should be 8 shims!
************************************************** *

***THIS APPLIES TO ALL DP GUNS!***

This type of issue seems to come up all the time here, so hopefully this
thread will cut down on it a bit. Here's the usual story:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DP noob
My gun is really hot the first shot and then is inconsistent or has drop off at
higher rates of fire. I've lubed everything and changed all the o-rings and
can't figure out what's wrong. My gun is brand new, how could this have
happened? OR My gun has been working fine for months and today its
broken, I didn't change anything, what happened?

etc, etc.
If you're having these types of issues and you've tried the usual easy fixes:

-Lube all o-rings (including regulator and solenoid internals)
-Change all o-rings (even if they look OK they could be damaged)
-Tried a different ASA
-Tried a different tank
-etc, etc.

Then you may/probably have a damaged regulator seat!

The tell-tale sign of a bad reg is when you swap out the reg for another one,
all of your problems are magically gone. This seems to make people think that
there is something wrong with DP regs, they're not high quality, etc. This is
not the case. I believe that 95% of time this failure is caused by the user.

Here are the internals of the 07 Fusion reg and the G3 reg (G3 reg internals
are the same/similar to F8, Threshold, iQ):



If you look at the pic you can see a part labeled "Regulator Seat" for both of
the reg styles. This is what becomes damaged and causes the velocity
issues. The reg seat is a semi-hard plastic ring that seals against the
aluminum face that contacts it.

In both reg styles the velocity adjuster nut can be turned 1.5 - 2 full
turns past when it "bottoms out". These extra turns can effectively crush
this small seal and permanently damage it.

***DO NOT "BOTTOM OUT" YOUR REG WITH EXCESSIVE FORCE!***

***THIS APPLIES TO ALL DP GUNS!***

Even though the 07 Fusion regulator has slightly different internals, this still
applies. Here is a quick explanation of the difference (between pics):



On the G3/iQ/F8/Threshold reg the regulator seat seals against a flat surface
on the velocity adjustment nut (not shown in these pics). On the 07 Fusion
regulator these seals are effectively swapped. The reg piston has an
aluminum tip, and the velocity adjustment nut has a polymer "sleeve" inside it
which the reg piston seals against:



They both work identically, but have the sealing material placed on opposite
surfaces. The only place to get the replacement parts needed to repair a DP
reg is from DP directly. Unfortunately this "seal" is not sold separately for
either style of regulator so either the whole reg piston will need to be
replaced (G3/iQ/F8/Threshold), or the velocity adjustment nut will need to be
replaced (07 Fusion).

Moral of the story:

***DO NOT "BOTTOM OUT" YOUR REG WITH EXCESSIVE FORCE!***

***THIS APPLIES TO ALL DP GUNS!***

If you need replacement parts contact DP:

Quote:
Customer Service - 10am to 6pm PST
(909) 869-7800 | info@dangerouspower.com

Service and Parts - 10am to 6pm PST
(909) 869-8801 | service@dangerouspower.com
EDIT: Example of damaged reg seat:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kert. View Post
The picture says it.

Last edited by xluben : 01-15-2009 at 08:03 AM.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:09 PM #2
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Did a quick skim, looks good, will be added to the sticky saterday after practice.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:15 PM #3
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MyselfandI (creator of Threshold maint. guide) were planning on doing a full
maintenance guide for all DP guns as soon as we can get around to it.

But I thought this was important enough / common enough to do it sooner.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:41 PM #4
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Awesome work xluben!!!! This should help out for sure!
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:46 PM #5
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I wonder if some of the problems don't originate from the factory? My BNIB G3 I got today had the rego totally bottomed out from the factory....mine seems to work well, but it makes me wonder if they all come that way if some of them have been damaged from it?
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:50 PM #6
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Awesome Work xluben!

Sorry I've been slacking I'll get you some pics real soon of the fusion's breakdown.
All we need now is a way to get the people to read the stuff before posting.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:06 PM #7
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Well even if they don't, it will be nice to have a place to send them to or easily find a direct link to the answer to the question....
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:32 PM #8
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great work , now i know exactly what to look for if it happens to mine .
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Old 05-30-2008, 12:25 AM #9
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Any idea what this seat will look like when damaged? I've got mine open, but can't tell if it's been damaged or not. the seal appears to be nearly flat and level with the top of the aluminum (G3).
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Old 05-30-2008, 12:57 AM #10
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If it's anything but flat whole and looks different in anyway from the pics. I would consider it damaged or broken. Broken meaning cracked. Anyway altered so it doesn't create a good seal on the marrying surface will create a problem. Check everything he has listed first, then double check it.

If you still have problems. Call DP and have them walk you through the troubleshoot. The # is at the end of the post.
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Old 05-30-2008, 02:26 AM #11
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last weekend one of my F8's was tripping out at high rates of fire so i just kept shooting it fast until the reg just blew and leaked out all the air. I haven't opened the reg yet but looks like this might be it. Thanks for the help XLuben!
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Old 05-30-2008, 06:56 AM #12
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so this is basically just caused by people screwing in their adjustment forcefully. Good to know. Thanks for the info.
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Old 05-30-2008, 11:14 AM #13
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I had a EGO6 reg seat fall off without knowing it once when I was lubing it. The little black plastic/rubber piece just fell out on to the carpet without making a peep. First thing I notice was it was hard to adjust the velocity and ofcourse velocity issues.
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Old 05-30-2008, 11:19 AM #14
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When are those DP parts kit coming out? Looks like they could come in handy for these sort of problems.
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Old 05-30-2008, 02:48 PM #15
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Xluben, Thank you for your Input on this ever growing problem. It is much appreciated by new and old Thread users alike.
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Old 05-30-2008, 03:05 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tEh PwNz1c0r View Post
so this is basically just caused by people screwing in their adjustment forcefully. Good to know. Thanks for the info.
well, not really, my Threshy this past weekend wouldn't shoot, and it was funny cos I had played with it the previous weekend and it was just fine... all I've done during the week was to lube the bolt, and then it wasn't shooting over the chrono... thank god Sobepaintball John is my teammate and he pin pointed the problem right away, and luckly for me, he had another seat just sitting there, and he let me have it and after that it was shooting money, even more consistent then before... so no, there has to be another reason why they go bad...
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Old 05-30-2008, 03:14 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luigi Speed 05 View Post
well, not really, my Threshy this past weekend wouldn't shoot, and it was funny cos I had played with it the previous weekend and it was just fine... all I've done during the week was to lube the bolt, and then it wasn't shooting over the chrono... thank god Sobepaintball John is my teammate and he pin pointed the problem right away, and luckly for me, he had another seat just sitting there, and he let me have it and after that it was shooting money, even more consistent then before... so no, there has to be another reason why they go bad...
Well, there will always be the occasional lemon, but what I meant to say was that most of the bad regular problems are probably caused by people screwing the seat in too far.
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Old 05-30-2008, 09:47 PM #18
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Has anyone in here tried a piece of macro cut to the size of the seat in the piston? I was thinking that may work too for those who do not have a spare piston and need something in a pinch.
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Old 05-30-2008, 10:22 PM #19
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My G3 has worked flawlessly since day one. I set the reg at 280 and game after game, week after week it never so much as hiccuped and I never had to reset it. Last weekend, I set it to the chrono and BAM! 425 fps. Hmmmm,,, I lowered the pressure back to 285, and it started creeping. I don't like to tinker while I am playing, so I put another reg on it and went on about the business of being shot at.

I fianally got around to looking at the reg today, and it looks like there is a scallop cut out of it. I have never bottomed out the reg, and until I turned it down that day I had never twisted it in that direction.

Hey, it is a new marker, and looks like a new reg design, so these things happen,(most of my other markers do not wear their factory regs) and I have no doubt that a company that can design a marker as nifty as the G3 can figure out what is wrong and address it. I will be calling DP next week though, cause when it works, it works really well, and I want to use it if I can.
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Old 05-31-2008, 12:06 PM #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bizzarr1 View Post
My G3 has worked flawlessly since day one. I set the reg at 280 and game after game, week after week it never so much as hiccuped and I never had to reset it. Last weekend, I set it to the chrono and BAM! 425 fps. Hmmmm,,, I lowered the pressure back to 285, and it started creeping. I don't like to tinker while I am playing, so I put another reg on it and went on about the business of being shot at.

I fianally got around to looking at the reg today, and it looks like there is a scallop cut out of it. I have never bottomed out the reg, and until I turned it down that day I had never twisted it in that direction.

Hey, it is a new marker, and looks like a new reg design, so these things happen,(most of my other markers do not wear their factory regs) and I have no doubt that a company that can design a marker as nifty as the G3 can figure out what is wrong and address it. I will be calling DP next week though, cause when it works, it works really well, and I want to use it if I can.

Ive been having the same issue with my red G3 .. the reg is in awesome condition.. ive put 5-6 cases through it but it is having some serious drop off and spiking issuses.

I won't touch it or tweek it and the velocity will jump to 380 or 420 and stay there.

I love the gun but the regs are killing me
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Old 05-31-2008, 02:29 PM #21
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I have a theory about the G3 reg problems.

Look at the HPR maintenance section of your G3's manual. See how the shim stack is depicted there? The illustration there is false. It shows the shim stack like this: ()()()(). Don't put your shims in that way!!!

Now look at the exploded diagram of the G3 at the bottom of the manual. See how image 70 is depicted in the top left hand corner of the diagram. That is the correct way to align the shims. Your shim stack should look like this: )()()()(.

DP really dropped the ball on this one. Their manual blatantly states incorrect information in the section where most people would look for regulator maintenance info. Most people probably would not even think of looking in the exploded diagram. I think we are going to be hearing about a lot of regulator problems in the G3 that are simply caused by incorrect alignment of the shims.
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