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Old 05-06-2008, 02:37 PM #43
ryryo2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railz View Post
I had a big long reply typed up, but I think I'll keep it to myself. It sickens me that the market that paintball has turned to has so little concern for the continuation of the sport.

Bring back the old days when everyone who played was older, employed, helped out and did what they could to make the game grow, not ***** about spending $50 instead of $30 to play.
please share, 1 problem with our society is a lack of communication. if we dont know then we cant do anything. please share your thoughts we can only grow 2 understand each other more by doing this.

this thread was made to make it aware that a field needs people to play or we may lose it.

okay, so a field needs people to play.
then people say why they arent playing.
-so we now have a known problem (Bonehead paintball field is at risk) and also know why the problem exists (people [or kids in this matter i assume] cant afford it). now we communicate a way to fix the problem. i shared my views and will continue to do so. why? cause any of you who actually knows me know that i want to make the game grow and make the las vegas paintball scene better!

you might say iam just being negative and that any1 can do that. its true, but we need to see every problem and then fix them.

as for "the good ol' days" times have changed. its a sad story for some of you. sorry.
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Old 05-06-2008, 02:49 PM #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
and we have NEVER in 4+ years had an unmanned field - maybe short on staff do to complications - but never unmanned.
I'm not trying to be rude, but this statement is just not true, i have played plenty of times on the field with no refs, i wasn't there by myself so im sure others have as well. I just don't likely being blatantly lied to.
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Old 05-06-2008, 04:14 PM #45
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I have also been there with no field refs on the field. I believe Bob and Lisa were out of town. This was the time we moved bunkers around and reset the field. I know it wasn't the right thing to probably do, but , there was no one on the field to ask or stop us. I can name at least 7 people that were there that day but that's up to them to come forward. This was the last time I played Pahrump...I was there one more time after this and that was to ref the first Wlid West tourney this year, not to play
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Old 05-06-2008, 05:12 PM #46
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I said that we have NEVER had no refs. That is true. the weekend we were gone we had refs - there were 4 there every minute. But with 6 fields there were not enough refs for each field. A few of the players - like Joe - who were very capable and experienced - asked if they could play without a ref. they were allowed to. If there is any other ti8me when there were not refs - other than a few times when we specifically approved players asked to go in by themselves rather than wait for a ref.. I would be real interested in knowing. I have payroll records for the past 4 years and can show that I have never had the field open without at least a minimum # of refs on hand.
I guess the clinch here is to not allow even highly experienced players into a field - even when they ask - no problem they can wait.

but this is boneheads thread so take it elsewhere.
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:02 AM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railz View Post
Bring back the old days when everyone who played was older, employed, helped out and did what they could to make the game grow, not ***** about spending $50 instead of $30 to play.
then EVERY paintball field would be out of business, such as:
1) SCP
2) Desert Storm (legal?)
3) Tektonx
4) HOP (House of Paintball)
5) VIPa (Vegas Indoor Paintball)
6) Bart's various field's (definitely illegal)
7) That place in the NLV warehouse with the JAIL

bringing down the $$ amount is the ONLY way to get the sport some exposure. unless you like the 'elitist paintballer' image. those guys with the $2000 Autocockers and constant air and HUGE drops so the marker was taller than it was long. most of those guys LOVED juming into pump games and lighting everyone up.

maybe you just don't like it that kids play? i started my son at the age of 8. so, he shouldn't have been playing since he wasn't older, employed, & helped out?

what about birthday parties and corporate parties and bachelor parties...

Last edited by rlapid2112 : 05-07-2008 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 05-07-2008, 01:53 AM #48
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[quote=ryryo2;47274486]
-so we now have a known problem (Bonehead paintball field is at risk) and also know why the problem exists (people [or kids in this matter i assume] cant afford it). now we communicate a way to fix the problem. i shared my views and will continue to do so. why? cause any of you who actually knows me know that i want to make the game grow and make the las vegas paintball scene better!
[quote]

Ryan,
I don't frequent pbnation as often as I used to, but I will make an observation on my sporadic visits back to this site; You are not here to make the paintball scene in Las Vegas better.

You're the perfect example of cheap talk. You use this medium to talk to 14 year old kids about a sport you rarely play. Don't get me wrong, if talking about paintball were the same as playing - you would be incredible at it.

Get off your soapbox and get it through your thick head that this forum is not your personal blog.

Last edited by gReen : 05-07-2008 at 01:53 AM. Reason: fixed
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Old 05-07-2008, 02:27 AM #49
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[quote=gReen;47301048][quote=ryryo2;47274486]
-so we now have a known problem (Bonehead paintball field is at risk) and also know why the problem exists (people [or kids in this matter i assume] cant afford it). now we communicate a way to fix the problem. i shared my views and will continue to do so. why? cause any of you who actually knows me know that i want to make the game grow and make the las vegas paintball scene better!
Quote:

Ryan,
I don't frequent pbnation as often as I used to, but I will make an observation on my sporadic visits back to this site; You are not here to make the paintball scene in Las Vegas better.

You're the perfect example of cheap talk. You use this medium to talk to 14 year old kids about a sport you rarely play. Don't get me wrong, if talking about paintball were the same as playing - you would be incredible at it.

Get off your soapbox and get it through your thick head that this forum is not your personal blog.

again, who the hell r u? i know ive asked this many times. and if i dont even know u then u must not know me. so how the hell are u gonna make a single comment on what iam about or what i stand for?

as for me and cheap talk. point it out. please show me where iam all talk. it could shut me up. and from the looks of it youd love that. so do work and point it out.

rarely play? r u sure about this 1? like really sure?
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Old 05-07-2008, 08:14 AM #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlapid2112 View Post
then EVERY paintball field would be out of business, such as:
1) SCP
2) Desert Storm (legal?)
3) Tektonx
4) HOP (House of Paintball)
5) VIPa (Vegas Indoor Paintball)
6) Bart's various field's (definitely illegal)
7) That place in the NLV warehouse with the JAIL

bringing down the $$ amount is the ONLY way to get the sport some exposure. unless you like the 'elitist paintballer' image. those guys with the $2000 Autocockers and constant air and HUGE drops so the marker was taller than it was long. most of those guys LOVED juming into pump games and lighting everyone up.

maybe you just don't like it that kids play? i started my son at the age of 8. so, he shouldn't have been playing since he wasn't older, employed, & helped out?

what about birthday parties and corporate parties and bachelor parties...

he speaks the truth. i have talked to several people in the industry. the sport(at least speed ball) has been overrun by young adults and teens. i started when i was nine. Mr. Lapid is very correct when he says that paintball needs to get cheaper in order for us to get exposure. I remember all the way back to HOP. i didnt play much back then. since i started paint has dropped in price considerably. i can now go buy 3 cases for 75-90 dollars were a case used to cost 50-90 (50 the cheap crap that never shot good.)


Respectfully,

troy
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:49 AM #51
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Please do not think i am a spammer ....i will be in Vegas in July , i as well as a few friends will be coming out to play at the Bone yard. It will be my first time playing indoor, may i ask what the turf or floor is like?
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:55 AM #52
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^^^^the turf is really nice...its longer like on football fields....they keep it clean too it is A++++
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Old 05-07-2008, 10:57 AM #53
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its a really nice field. grass is awesome
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:01 AM #54
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its a really nice field. grass is awesome
....turf.....
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:36 AM #55
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Originally Posted by Spaz 419 View Post
Please do not think i am a spammer ....i will be in Vegas in July , i as well as a few friends will be coming out to play at the Bone yard. It will be my first time playing indoor, may i ask what the turf or floor is like?
place is awesome. u wont b disapointed. even the lighting (for indoor) is awesome. people are great too. youll enjoy urself.
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Old 05-07-2008, 11:52 AM #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rlapid2112 View Post
then EVERY paintball field would be out of business, such as:
1) SCP
2) Desert Storm (legal?)
3) Tektonx
4) HOP (House of Paintball)
5) VIPa (Vegas Indoor Paintball)
6) Bart's various field's (definitely illegal)
7) That place in the NLV warehouse with the JAIL
I have no idea why those fields failed with the exception of SCP (as I did not live here at the time).

Quote:
bringing down the $$ amount is the ONLY way to get the sport some exposure. unless you like the 'elitist paintballer' image. those guys with the $2000 Autocockers and constant air and HUGE drops so the marker was taller than it was long. most of those guys LOVED juming into pump games and lighting everyone up.
No it's not. Paintball for one is not a spectator sport unless you play it - if you don't play, you have no idea what's going on. It's a mess of confusing people shouting, shooting and running around.

I'm going to quote Horizon here, simply because I don't feel like reinventing the wheel:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
No one's fault really. That's just the way it is. That's the market setting the price. As the amount of paintball players increased, the paintball manufacturers were able to manufacture and distribute paintballs cheaper. With cheaper paintballs, players were able to afford to shoot more paintballs. Marker manufacturers replied by providing technology that allowed players to shoot those paintball more reliability. More paintball players shooting more paintballs, meant that paintballs could be produced and distributed in even higher quantities (cheaper). More paintball manufacturers jumped in to get a piece of the pie. This meant more competiton, driving prices down further. This downward trend continued to be market driven until the industry started to lose players due to the now high ROF. Now we have less players, but still shooting a lot of paintballs. manufacturers have realized that the trend is reversing (less players, not ROF), so are trying to reverse the ROF to once again turn the trend around so we attract and keep new players, so the industry doesn't continue to decline. It's all market driven, as change in any industry always is, unless of course it's legislated change.
As for the "elitist paintballers" of yesterday, they exist today. They are the target market - the kids. They are the ones who look down on anyone who doesn't shoot the most up-to-date marker out there, or who plays in the woods, or plays pump, or plays scenario etc.

The target market is driving the industry down. How can you produce a $1400 marker and expect kids to buy it? Most adults these days don't have that kind of disposable income.

Quote:
maybe you just don't like it that kids play? i started my son at the age of 8. so, he shouldn't have been playing since he wasn't older, employed, & helped out?

what about birthday parties and corporate parties and bachelor parties...
I don't know exactly what you're saying with this, and the more I think about your post the more I think you're just arguing for the sake of it. No big deal /shrug.
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Old 05-07-2008, 12:52 PM #57
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^^so are you saying where just in a market trend or phase right now? sadly this is the down side of it... here in a couple of years it will either crash and paintball will be no more or the market will go green again...

is that like the catch or message ur sending out?

iam just lost on how your saying that the speedball kids are the target market. cause store owners say their profit comes from scenario or rec players... that and when people think paintball they think "war games" or scenario style of play. they dont even know about speedball 80% of the time.
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Old 05-07-2008, 01:24 PM #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryryo2 View Post
^^so are you saying where just in a market trend or phase right now? sadly this is the down side of it... here in a couple of years it will either crash and paintball will be no more or the market will go green again...

is that like the catch or message ur sending out?
It's a market trend. PSP have started the ball rolling by lowering the ROF cap hoping it will trickle down to a local field level. Expect to see either a lower cap or a paint limit on games within the next season or two (personally I think it will be a max cap on pods per team per game). They took another step by making Xball a race to seven rather than an open-ended game at the request of various teams who were feeling the pinch.

Quote:
iam just lost on how your saying that the speedball kids are the target market. cause store owners say their profit comes from scenario or rec players... that and when people think paintball they think "war games" or scenario style of play. they dont even know about speedball 80% of the time.
No, you're mixing up things. Most field's bread and butter is from rec players. A field ignores its rec players to its peril - without them, no field will ever survive.

The paintball industry's market is varied, but the high-end marker and speedball market is aimed at males aged 13 to mid twenties. You only have to look at the "fashion" of PB, the attitude of people on this very forum and within fields all over the country to see that.
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Old 05-07-2008, 02:49 PM #59
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ok wow...
I understand where alot of people are coming from with it is too expensive for paint.. but if you think of this...

- if you go to lvpp an have your own paint lets think here. You probably bought that paint before (25-35). + entry you still paying 55. its the same thing as goin got boneyard (45-55). + 15 for entry. 60 bucks. ther honestly isnt a differece. maybe the one difference from both of them for the people who live next or close to lvpp it is 5 bucks saved in gas.

as far as paint tho at boneyard. i played there every wednesday with heat. it is too much.. If we did do 1-2 days byop. i think boneyard would get tons of people. I mean now that summer is coming. it would be packed. just like scp did. 1 day a week was free entry. spending 35 buclks to play was the ****.

I personally think they would let us bring our own paint a coupledays a week. or trade in the paint yyou have an pay like 10 bucks or something so there still makeing some profit.
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Old 05-07-2008, 02:55 PM #60
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Originally Posted by railz View Post
It's a market trend. PSP have started the ball rolling by lowering the ROF cap hoping it will trickle down to a local field level. Expect to see either a lower cap or a paint limit on games within the next season or two (personally I think it will be a max cap on pods per team per game). They took another step by making Xball a race to seven rather than an open-ended game at the request of various teams who were feeling the pinch.
limiting paint is a big issue. (like when i do play bonehead iam playing hopperball). and i do agree with you about tournes prolly looking into limiting pods. i dont like the idea but at the same time it makes it more of a stratgey game too. also may help bring paintball back into the "green".


Quote:
Originally Posted by railz View Post
No, you're mixing up things. Most field's bread and butter is from rec players. A field ignores its rec players to its peril - without them, no field will ever survive.
when working at SCP i tried to work with rec players as much as i could. actually i was the 1 who set-up the rec field and changed it up. didnt happen to often but i still did it haha.

your comment about ignoring them. i havent been to a field and seen this. i have however overheard rec players complain and have told them if u have an issue go tell the people who run it, COMPLAIN! haha. it cant get fixed otherwise. so they were never ignored in the story of SCP they just didnt make themselves heard.

agreed again. no field can survive without rec players. they r the new people who arent looking for "frees" or discounts. not only that but they are buying everything. and bringing their friends and family in2 paintball. and as people quit cause they are tired of all the paintball bull**** we need new people to replace them haha.


Quote:
Originally Posted by railz View Post
The paintball industry's market is varied, but the high-end marker and speedball market is aimed at males aged 13 to mid twenties. You only have to look at the "fashion" of PB, the attitude of people on this very forum and within fields all over the country to see that.
high-end market and speedball market is a VERY small market. this is said everyday. its mentioned at tournes. its seen at local fields.

of couse its going to be aimed at male teens between the age of 13-27. thats where you find people who want to compete. thats in every extreme sport. look at moto-cross or snow boarding. the "sport" side always attracts males between 13-27 years old.
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Old 05-07-2008, 03:05 PM #61
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ther's a lot of good sincere ideas coming forward here. Lets let Boneyard know how we feel.Maybe they would do a couple byop days or trade in paint for us. The main thing is we NEED to help them stay open. They're here for us . as a paintball community we need to be there for them.
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Old 05-07-2008, 04:49 PM #62
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well i think everyone from this point on try our best to help boneyard out

sure some people are getting cheap right now and saying "60 bucks to play **** that" that just tells me you dont really truly like the sport and your just gonna give up on it when it starts to go down. sure 60 bucks seems like alot for a couple games but its worth it .

some may disagree but i personally think thats fair.
for once someone has a place where we can play in vegas were gonna need to sacrafice it if we want it to grow and if we want more places here
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Old 05-07-2008, 05:15 PM #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by railz View Post
I had a big long reply typed up, but I think I'll keep it to myself. It sickens me that the market that paintball has turned to has so little concern for the continuation of the sport.

Bring back the old days when everyone who played was older, employed, helped out and did what they could to make the game grow, not ***** about spending $50 instead of $30 to play.
I was taking issue with the above statement. Look at your own signature. Tell me that times aren't tough for everybody. If you want to play paintball, there is a price and EVERYTHING factors in: entry, paint cost, equipment, gas (fuel, not air). Non-monetary issues: field conditions, rentals, refs, safety, BATHROOMS, proximity to food (could be a monetary issue).

The suggestions being proposed by players is what will help keep a field alive.

For an example:
HOP was an indoor field with a DIRT floor. It was a scenario field. For those of us who remember its dying days, there were POOLS of old paint and mildewed water. I am mentioning this because their business model didn't place enough of an emphasis on field maintenance. At the time, entry & paint were along the lines of VIPA (older) and Tektonx (newer). What killed them were conditions. Tek would still be in business if its field paint wasn't square and stuck together and if they would run the swamp coolers in the summer. Maybe not, because waiting in a line of 20-30 people while a 5v5 or 7v7 was on the field wasn't fun. On a Friday night, if you got 5 games in, you were lucky.

I have not been to the Boneyard but I do plan to go. If LVPP weren't so darned close to my house, I would have already gone. For me, their pricing isn't too bad, its just that LVPP is close and a little cheaper. I have been in this city a long time and the heat does not bother me as long as I have shade between games.

The Boneyard, I believe, has factored in parties as a major part of their revenue stream. From its description, it is very party friendly. They need to go after that market and skip over us speedballers (who want cheap, round paint above all else). Groups (parties, corporate team-building, etc) are a large clump of revenue in one efficient package. Then paintball, food, and video games all will be money makers.

Last edited by rlapid2112 : 05-07-2008 at 06:17 PM.
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