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Old 05-05-2008, 01:27 PM #22
ryryo2
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since this is a large post ill break it up and give my comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
You wanted indoor paintball - you got it
true. so the people that wanted it should be there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
From what we understand - Boneyard doesn't have an option of BYOP. ( most indoor fields don't. we didn't for several years - and even now have to work so hard to keep it.
they dont offer it. makes sense too. anything other than white and yellow fill is a pain in the *** 2 clean.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
So Nevada seems to have delevoped this feeling that paintball here costs too much. Have you checked in Calif? Paint there STARTS at $40 a case for the crummy stuff. Entry / air is a lot higher. and those companies don't work with the players one iota. You are nothing but a body with cash to them. Paintball is So Nevada is primo compared to that - at Bonehead - LVPP or here in Pahrump.
actually it starts at 30$ for decent stuff. and if ur in good with people you can get it for 23$ a case! decent paint, iam not even talking rainbow box aka seconds. o and the people/stores ur buying from are still making a profit from it. crazy huh. as for entry/air - no field in cali is over 20$. as for them not working with the players... r u sure? RAZA doesnt have any field sponsored teams? Hollywood Sports Park has none? even the Lodi field? check ur facts on this 1. go2 a tourne and meet the players.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
there is no such thing anymore as "good cheap" paint.
like everything else - paint prices went up. So did delivery fees. And every other costs associated with paintball. LVPP is able to run and operate because they use a lot of volunteers ( no comment on the safety or legality of this) but when you have to pay employees( or managers) and all of the bills cleaning/maintenance - like Bonehead is doing- a company cannot make all of these payments on $5 per case profit and give super low entry fees.
Bonus Ball. good. cheap. works great in vegas year round. easy 2 clean. buy a skid at a time and ur good. SupAir now offers paint deals. for their decent paint its 18$ a case when u buy a skid at a time. (96 cases makes a skid)

delivery fees went up. true.

so mayb you should find out what LVPP is doing to get these so called volunteers.
*sorry hunny but nobody works for free.

**EDIT**
PLEASE comment on the safety or legality of a field even having "volunteers". id love some insight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
Players want it all cheap and good. People in hell want ice water - it don't mean they get it.
actually players want cheap and decent. people want it cheap and good.

this is a stupid phrase considering people arent even sure if there is a hell. or whose there. or what they want. whats it like in this place called hell. has hell ever really been described like legit?
*call me a SMART ***!


Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
No one can buy paint - have it delivered AND absorb the cost of the financial holding of it ( they pay thousands up front and have to wait to get it back - for those not in business this is equivelant of 9% in today's economy) - for less than $30 a case for GOOD paint. BEFORE profit and sales tax. And even that is just so-so paint. 2nds, heat and some of that level are OK paints - but they are not GOOD paint. when you use less quality paint - you spend more time cleaning your equipment. either way you pay the same. do you pay to play or pay to clean your equipment?
i remember SCP going through a skid a week... thats not a very long time at all. ur actually ordering a new skid b4 ur 1st one runs out... (2 make sure its gonna b there on time.) now iam not the person to talk about what they were spending cause i have no clue. as for the cleaning... u should b cleaning on a regular basis so yyyeeaa. takes about an hour and a half 2 fully clean a field on ur own with a pressure washer (I KNOW!) add a half hour if ur gonna do the nets. and about 45mins to clean rentals and relube them. again I KNOW! thats not that much time at all.


**EDIT**
if u buy paint by the skid u usually pay about 25$ per case
ordering 96 cases..
so 25x96= 2,400
that number should b a start-up cost...
now selling it at 35$ a case. u make $3,360. profit is 960$ a skid. no taxes included.
so its safe to say that if you sell a skid a week then you are going to profit 500$ a week. $26,000 a year. (500$ is me bing very redic with taxes and shipping costs, so its possible that its actually more than 500$)
*note: this is if ur buying it at 25$ a case (buying a skid at a time) and selling at 35$ case

Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
yes - paintball IS expensive - but so is waterskiing, golfing, and most any extreme sport. Not everyone can do it - and those who really want to - find a way.
yea, they also get cheap with it. find the deals. talk 2 people who run their sport. just like in paintball.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
Our recommendation for those who can't "afford" it .. get a job - this is the summer - there are a million ( literally) senior citizens in Vegas who would pay $7-10 and hour to have kids clean up their yards and do other things like that around the house. put in 4-5 hours a week and you can play all the paintball you want. and you will be in better shape for it!
y didnt u just say this? like really this is the only thing i have no comment for. its legit. so please b an amazing person and post up these jobs. cause theres a million of them, shouldnt b to hard to find.


Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
just our 2 bits.
cute.
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Last edited by ryryo2 : 05-05-2008 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:15 PM #23
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Ryan, I'm glad someone took the time to respond to the Novel!! Some people have a comment for everything even if there is a point to make or not. Thanks Ryan.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:25 PM #24
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the reason i dont go to boneyard is that at i can go and get some good paint for a cheap price then only pay 20 bucks for entry
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:35 PM #25
ryryo2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supremacy Paintball View Post
Ryan, I'm glad someone took the time to respond to the Novel!! Some people have a comment for everything even if there is a point to make or not. Thanks Ryan.
its why iam here.

that and the comments were 2 easy 2 make, i couldnt pass it up.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:56 PM #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryryo2 View Post
so mayb you should find out what LVPP is doing to get these so called volunteers.
*sorry hunny but nobody works for free.

**EDIT**
PLEASE comment on the safety or legality of a field even having "volunteers". id love some insight.

I would really like to know how it is not safe having volunteers work at the field too. There isn't a license someone has to have to be a ref at a local field.

And today, there was an article in the local Vegas paper on how this summer is going to be the hardest summer for teens to find jobs, no one is going to be hiring..pretty much went on to say that immigrants and older people are taking over much of the teenage jobs.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:57 PM #27
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I hope boneyard stays open , plus its nice having more options than driving out to pahrump.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:59 PM #28
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hell if boneyard needs help during the weekends ill do it for free cause i dont wanna see another place go down

hit me up boneyard

edit : and yes i do mean free
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:01 PM #29
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I am surprised about pahrump making comments on volunteer staff, several times at there field there has been no staff at all on the field.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:04 PM #30
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Since none of you to my knowledge own a paintball field, other than Bob and Lisa, let me shed some light on a few facts that might help shed some light on a few things. Being one of the owners of LVPP I can give you first hand info on a few subjects that were mentioned in this post.

First off I hope Boneyard is able to survive, it only helps out the other fields because it gets more people introduced to the sport allowing it to grow. LVPP looked for over 1 year to find a location for an indoor facility. The reason we decided to go outdoor is sheer numbers, here are some examples.

The biggest cost and the main reason it is tough for an indoor field is the rent!

Based on the building next to Boneyard, which is available for lease and is about the same size, I estimate JUST their monthly rent to be about $14,000 to $16,000. Now let's look at other expenses associated with a field.

Rent $15,000
Paint $12,000 (based on 4 skids a month)
Utilities $800 (just a guess based of of a/c running)
Sales Tax $1000 (this number is low)
you still have labor, insurance, fed income tax, workers comp insurance, cleaning costs, repairs, etc...

So this show Boneyard must generate about $30,000 a month is gross sales to break even.

So lets look at income, if everyone went a paid entry and bought a case of paint they would need about about 470 players a month to break even based on spending $65 each time (entry and 1 case) and you know some people have left over paint from previous weeks so that number is even higher and that is also field paint only. To allow BYOP you need to push that number up to about 750 players a month TO BREAK EVEN.

Now I'll show you the other problem Boneyard faces trying to reach their break even point.

The size of the field limits the number of players that can play at one time and also the amount of paint being shot. So to reach the number of players needed to break even you need about 30 players a day (based on being open 5 days a week) So say you are playing 3vs3 with 30 people there (now I know the 30 people might not all be there at the same time, just trying to keep the math easy) you would play a game and have to wait 4 game to play your next game, that was the biggest complaint I heard about the other indoor places in town from players was having to wait too long to play.

I hope this helped shed some light on the issue.

LVPP
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:09 PM #31
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^^^^^^^^^
wow good point
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:29 PM #32
ryryo2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdoulder View Post
First off I hope Boneyard is able to survive, it only helps out the other fields because it gets more people introduced to the sport allowing it to grow. LVPP looked for over 1 year to find a location for an indoor facility. The reason we decided to go outdoor is sheer numbers, here are some examples.

.......

I hope this helped shed some light on the issue.

LVPP
so LVPP is an outdoor field cause when you made the bussiness plan to open a paintball field here in Las Vegas you worked the numbers and saw that las vegas paintball can not support what it takes for an indoor field? according to your projections. or it would be an indoor field?

i also would love to see Bonehead grow and prosper as a field. They have put a lot of work into it. It is a VERY nice place. i enjoy every moment there. My comments above reflect my opinions and reasons on why i cant play at Bonehead as much as i would like. Its closer to my house even. i hate driving btw.

again, my reason for not playing at Bonehead is because of paint costs.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:30 PM #33
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Kevin - so well put!
you forgot to mention the cost of the money it took to put up the field ( nets, rentals, etc) in the first place -$50,000 or more.. that outlay has to be recooped and paid back - even if an owner used their own money.
the cost of phones, phone book ads, and so on.
it never quits.

as for teens getting jobs... the jobs are out there and actually pretty easy to get IF you want to work. When I was 14 and out looking for my first job my dad told me that an employer / person will find work for a sharp individual - even if he doesn't need them now -because hard working good people are hard to find. It was true then and still is today. I meet with fellow employers every week - our number one complaint - even before the economy woes - is finding decent employees. If you are looking for a paycheck and don't give a darn about the person paying it or what they WANT - then don't be surprised if they don't give a darn back. If you want a job - and are clean and willing to work for it - and are interested in what YOU can do for THEM - then get out there and start talking. A teenager approached me over the weekend at the grocery store because he saw my shirt with our name on it and asked if we were hiring. He was quick to say that he would work hard. And he was clean and decent and spoke decently. I gave him my card and told him to come by. He was here 15 minutes after he got out of school today. we hired him. I like the initiative it took to do that.

Look in your neighboor hoods, find a yard that needs some help and offer to help. Jobs are there - you just have to earn them.

and we have NEVER in 4+ years had an unmanned field - maybe short on staff do to complications - but never unmanned.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:41 PM #34
ryryo2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
as for teens getting jobs... the jobs are out there and actually pretty easy to get IF you want to work. When I was 14 and out looking for my first job my dad told me that an employer / person will find work for a sharp individual - even if he doesn't need them now -because hard working good people are hard to find. It was true then and still is today.

i had a job when i was 14 too. it was illegal! i lost my job after 8 weeks and he got a nice little fine. i was holding a sign for centry 21 homes. (just 2 pay for paintball btw) sadly u must be 15 1/2 years 2 legally have a job in nevada. (back then, i now feel old... haha)

**FIXED**
Quote:
Originally Posted by zkorAVALS View Post
Ryan, rules have changed. You have to be 14 with a workers permit to get a job now.
**Till your 16 you have to get a workers permit. (all you kiddies who are 14 - 16 years old you can get the paperwork for this permit at a police station, post office or most rec centers.)

as for other jobs for teens. they want you to work weekends and usually dont allow for the time off needed for paintball (tournes and practice).

the hard working people arent hard to find its the drug free people. every interview i go in for thats all they want to know. in the past 4 years ive had 21 jobs btw. quit each job cause they wouldnt allow time off for paintball (defeating the reason for me to have the job) or found better pay else where.



**EDIT**
every job i go2 (that requires more than fast food work) wouldnt hire me if i was under 18 years of age. and as soon as i give them my EMT school schedule i get the look of "i dont think we can work with this". but they do cause iam the only kid that passed the drug test!

lisa, even you only ask for 18 years of age, a driver's license and to be drug free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PahrumpPaintballPark View Post
Pahrump Paintball is looking for a full time field manager.
Paintball experience preferred - hosuing provided if needed.

must be over 18. must have driver's license. Must be drug free ( tested)
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:21 PM #35
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Ryan, rules have changed. You have to be 14 with a workers permit to get a job now. Trust me, i've looked into this a lot as I was trying to get a job last summer.
Getting a job for kids will be hard this summer. The amount of immigrants is exceeding the number of job offerings. All i'm hoping for is that someone takes a look at those signs around my neighborhood and offers me a job.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:26 PM #36
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go to star nursery and stand outside...just like the immigrants....offer to help people move **** or whatever.
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:26 PM #37
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Im not suprised to hear that Bonehead is not doing good....I hate to see them hurting but you cant be surprised....When i heard they were opening an indoor field and what there rent would be. Well i did the math my self since i know what it takes to run and manage a paintball field....I ran the numbers and there was no way they could pull in that many people a month with those prices....It just is not going to happen....no baller wants to pay that much...And it is true SCP was going through 1 skid to 1 1/2 skids a week. How did we do this even when we were a BYOP field....i will tell you how we did this cause we didnt raise our paint prices to the high limit...we competed with Walmart, Big 5, Online retailers and other places.....Why buy paint from them when you can buy it at our field and it its bad we will replace it....If you get bad paint from other places and bring it to us we tell you sorry you have to get with them...but if you bought our paint and some balls were broken or paint was bad we swapped it out.....We carried only 1 brand of paint and only offered 1 brand of paint.....We didnt carry tourney paint because it was not cost effective.....we carried practice paint that will work in our rentals and all the high end tourney guns and gave a decent paint to practice with for the tourney guys. Ballers WANT CHEAP AND DECENT PAINT thats all....
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Old 05-05-2008, 05:55 PM #38
ryryo2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zkorAVALS View Post
Ryan, rules have changed. You have to be 14 with a workers permit to get a job now. Trust me, i've looked into this a lot as I was trying to get a job last summer.
Getting a job for kids will be hard this summer. The amount of immigrants is exceeding the number of job offerings. All i'm hoping for is that someone takes a look at those signs around my neighborhood and offers me a job.
so 14 now. gotcha. make sure u get that workers permit haha.
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:00 PM #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slosh View Post
Ballers WANT CHEAP AND DECENT PAINT thats all....
with a "decent" field.

most of us played SCP when the playing surface was that muddy gunk. or the might as well be cement. or wtf, y is there tree bark on the field? sometimes had loose dirt, or got a nice gift from bart.

we played games where ur bunker would deflate in front of you during the game. we would setup a UAPL field to avoid this issue and still play 7v7 on it. as redic as it was.

we complained. but we showed up the next day because it was decent.

^^to give you a definition of "decent" as i see it.

**EDIT**
now a change-up. (this goes for jobs too)
remember people. you get what you pay for. you pay mcdonalds wages and your going to get mcdonald workers who forget ur order or always mess it up.
u get cheap when paying for paint then your going to get cheap paint.
if you want the nice things life or vegas paintball has to offer then u have to pay for it.
dont forget we are in vegas and the rule is "pay to play".
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Old 05-05-2008, 06:26 PM #40
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i have a job. so heres some advice for you kids that dont and can't. go to word or microsoft paint, make a poster that says you'll do yard work. i did it for years. its how i playd paintball till i was 15. trust me it works, particularly if you have seniors in your neighborhood.

im still cheap. i go for volume, not quality. pahrumps byop is very easy to get in. get a case of paint that matches their specifications,and go play(or more if you need it.).



respectfully,

troy
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Old 05-06-2008, 12:31 PM #41
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I had a big long reply typed up, but I think I'll keep it to myself. It sickens me that the market that paintball has turned to has so little concern for the continuation of the sport.

Bring back the old days when everyone who played was older, employed, helped out and did what they could to make the game grow, not ***** about spending $50 instead of $30 to play.
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Old 05-06-2008, 01:21 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ego_maniac View Post
i have a job. so heres some advice for you kids that dont and can't. go to word or microsoft paint, make a poster that says you'll do yard work. i did it for years. its how i playd paintball till i was 15. trust me it works, particularly if you have seniors in your neighborhood.

im still cheap. i go for volume, not quality. pahrumps byop is very easy to get in. get a case of paint that matches their specifications,and go play(or more if you need it.).



respectfully,

troy
That + tutoring will keep me busy this summer.
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