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Old 04-03-2008, 02:29 PM #106
HyBrIdBaLlR13
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Don't I have the right to bear arms under the bill of rights in the constitution[/quote]

If your part of a standing malitia. R u?
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:31 PM #107
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Leon: Sorry bout your loss man

On another note:

'Assault Weapons' Max effective range for accurate lethality <300yds.
A Shot with super-sonic ammunition will be heard at this range.


High-Powered bolt action hunting rifles, max effective range for accurate lethality: Greater than 700yds.
A shot with super-sonic ammunition will most likely dissipate from this range.


Range, accuracy and speed/surprise/violence of action is greater than a semi-auto rifle for both max killing, chance of escaping, and chance to clean up after yourself.

If I was going to murder people, it would be with a hunting rifle, not a semi-auto AW.

Food for thought, AW are less dangerous than High-Power Hunting rifles.


Quote:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
let me break this down.

A well regulated Militia is necessary to the security of a free state/country.
However, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

Definition of Militia:
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.


by this definition, everyday people of 17 and older can be considered as the class of an unorganized militia.


Either way you look at the second amendment, we have the right to bear arms.
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:32 PM #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyBrIdBaLlR13 View Post
"Don't I have the right to bear arms under the bill of rights in the constitution"

If your part of a standing malitia. R u?
"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:33 PM #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyBrIdBaLlR13 View Post

If your part of a standing malitia. R u?
I am, you are if you are 17, HRT is, leon is.

"The reserve militia or unorganized militia, also created by the Militia Act of 1903 which presently consist of every able-bodied man of at least 17 and under 45 years of age who are not members of the National Guard or Naval Militia."
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Old 04-03-2008, 02:35 PM #110
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I am, you are if you are 18, HRT is, leon is.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:37 PM #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HyBrIdBaLlR13 View Post
If your part of a standing malitia. R u?
I'm 17, technicly I am.
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Old 04-03-2008, 03:51 PM #112
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There's quite a lot of confusion (I suspect that some of it is intentional misinformation) about the term "militia" in the 2nd Amendment. The "militia" meant every able-bodied man of fighting age. In essence, the "militia" was the "people."

Now, on to the original topic. IMO, Obama's stance that gun control is an issue to be dealt with at the state level is a clever cop out on his part. He can't stand up for the right to keep and bear arms, or he'll lose popularity with the extreme left. He can't say he favors strict gun control, or it will cost him in the general election. His personal views on the subject, as far as I can tell from things he's said, are pretty much in line with the Brady Campaign and others like them.

Having said that, I doubt if he'll personally initiate any gun control legislation if he is elected president, but I'm fairly sure he'll sign any that comes across his desk.
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-Thomas Jefferson
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:03 PM #113
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hahahaha dude, you need to stop the shenanigans.


would you consider the .204 ruger, the .223wssm the .22 hornet and all other "intermediate" rifle rounds assault rounds?


you are seriously a ****ing idiot, and im sure everyone who has common sense in the firearms world would agree with me.
Wow.... thanks for the unwarranted personal attack. I was talking about what qualifies a weapon as an assault rifle, as opposed to a battle rifle, sniper rifle etc.. If you don't agree with me, at least have the respect not to call me a "****ing idiot". I am a Army Infantry SGT and a 2 tour combat veteran. I don't appreciate being disrespected like that. Honestly, I don't know anything about gay *** **** hunting cartridges, because I use military rifles - you know, the type I use to kill men who are shooting back at me, not defenseless little animals like your ***** ***.

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Old 04-03-2008, 04:17 PM #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berserker19 View Post
Wow.... thanks for the unwarranted personal attack. I was talking about what qualifies a weapon as an assault rifle, as opposed to a battle rifle, sniper rifle etc.. If you don't agree with me, at least have the respect not to call me a "****ing idiot". I am a Army Infantry SGT and a 2 tour combat veteran. I don't appreciate being disrespected like that. Honestly, I don't know anything about gay *** **** hunting cartridges, because I use military rifles - you know, the type I use to kill men who are shooting back at me, not defenseless little animals like your ***** ***.

We don't need to earn respect - we just ****in' take it.

Now they can close this stupid *** thread
Don't be so sensitive... I would think a man of your background would have a thicker skin seeing as you were in country twice.... FYI respect is earned... you should know that "soldier"

Jesus christ... you do realize hunting cartridges = "war or fighting" as well.... right?

Thats probably some of the worst drivel I have heard come from an "army guy"....

Edited for "double Hunting"
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:19 PM #115
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I will be the first to admit that the firearms I have are not for hunting, nor primarily for target shooting. However fun target shooting really is, I always believed that I needed to have at least the same firepower, if not more, as the enemy (the criminals).

I imagine if this was so with all citizens, criminals would be a lot more hesitant before committing an armed crime, knowing that there might be an armed citizen amongst the crowd. The same goes for home invasions, robberies, random acts of murder, and etc.

I care for people deeply, not wanting them to feel the pain that I have felt after losing my brother, and I would rather face the jury for blowing away an armed criminal, then see one more innocent person torn apart by a senseless murderer.

We as law abiding citizens must not give away our rights, because the enemy does not play by the same rules we do. Adding more rules will only hurt us, law abiding citizens, and the criminals will keep doing what they do.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:22 PM #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [HRT]Squirrel Master View Post
Don't be so sensitive... I would think a man of your background would have a thicker skin seeing as you were in country twice.... FYI respect is earned... you should know that "soldier"

Jesus christ... you do realize hunting cartridges = hunting as well.... right?
In all fairness, it's getting pretty tiresome when people like drunkkoala take a respectfully worded post and respond with a personal attack. It's bull**** and it's why the level of debate in this forum generally sucks. There's no reason to expect a person to respond respectfully after he's been insulted in the first place, there'd be no issues if we didn't have people initiating it like the afformentioned idiot
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:24 PM #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [-León-] View Post
I will be the first to admit that the firearms I have are not for hunting, nor primarily for target shooting. However fun target shooting really is, I always believed that I needed to have at least the same firepower, if not more, as the enemy (the criminals).
A fire arm is intended to put a bullet where you aim.... what you aim at and the purpose you use it for is YOUR choice/fault. Every gun is a hunting gun as well as a personal defense weapon as well as a target shooting weapon. Don't start that crap.

I imagine if this was so with all citizens, criminals would be a lot more hesitant before committing an armed crime, knowing that there might be an armed citizen amongst the crowd. The same goes for home invasions, robberies, random acts of murder, and etc.
eactly

I care for people deeply, not wanting them to feel the pain that I have felt after losing my brother, and I would rather face the jury for blowing away an armed criminal, then see one more innocent person torn apart by a senseless murderer.
Better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.

We as law abiding citizens must not give away our rights, because the enemy does not play by the same rules we do. Adding more rules will only hurt us, law abiding citizens, and the criminals will keep doing what they do.
agreed Xone
My thoughts above.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:26 PM #118
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Originally Posted by [HRT]Squirrel Master View Post
Don't be so sensitive... I would think a man of your background would have a thicker skin seeing as you were in country twice.... FYI respect is earned... you should know that "soldier"

Jesus christ... you do realize hunting cartridges = hunting as well.... right?

Thats probably some of the worst drivel I have heard come from an "army guy"....
And who the **** are you to try and tell me anything about the army?
If some ******* calls me out, I'm going to go right back at him. Especially some know it all guy who thinks he knows everything about guns because he reads swat magazine.

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Old 04-03-2008, 04:26 PM #119
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Originally Posted by elTwitcho View Post
In all fairness, it's getting pretty tiresome when people like drunkkoala take a respectfully worded post and respond with a personal attack. It's bull**** and it's why the level of debate in this forum generally sucks. There's no reason to expect a person to respond respectfully after he's been insulted in the first place, there'd be no issues if we didn't have people initiating it like the afformentioned idiot
Ok, I will agree with you there. But you also have to be able to take criticism to an extent. If I called you an idiot (which you are not) because I don't agree with something you're saying.... that doesn't mean you should turn around all butt hurt and leave the conversation.

All I'm saying is that its a debate, and as such has the possibility to become slightly heated, but then should come back to a talking level. I haven't heard you weight in yet twitch? whats your opinion if I can ask.

Quote:
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And who the **** are you to try and tell me anything about the army?
My point was to how you handled the attack. instead of letting it slide or being a bigger man about it, you slid back like a child and pouted....

all i was saying. "Tough guy"

I've been around military people my whole life... I know all kinds of "military styles" Yours happens to be my least favorite.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:27 PM #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [HRT]Squirrel Master View Post
My thoughts above.
Referring to your comment about the purpose of a firearm.

I agree with you; I was just stating my primary reason for owning firearms.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:32 PM #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [-León-] View Post
Referring to your comment about the purpose of a firearm.

I agree with you; I was just stating my primary reason for owning firearms.
cool, just made it sound as if your reason for owning the same weapon I do.... is for the same reason, to which it is not.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:34 PM #122
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Ok, I will agree with you there. But you also have to be able to take criticism to an extend. If I called you an idiot (which you are not) because I don't agree with something you're saying.... that doesn't mean you should turn around all butt hurt and leave the conversation.

All I'm saying is that its a debate, and as such has the possibility to become slightly heated, but then should come back to a talking level. I haven't heard you weight in yet twitch? whats your opinion if I can ask.
I wouldn't leave the conversation, but I would (and have) probably respond with an insult myself and at that point people tend to focus more on the insult than the actual post. If you make a perfectly well rationed argument and end it with calling the guy "dumb****" all he's going to see is that word rather than give you a response.

To be honest, I like it when you find someone willing to continue an actual conversation and pepper it with insults. It's alot more fun that way because I don't take it personally, but as I said, most people drop the "discussion" component and just go insult crazy, at which point it's totally pointless.


As for me, I'm cynical as hell and my honest opinion is that we're not going to continue to see the kind of prosperity we currently have indefinately. I think civillians should have access to millitary level equipment (outside of fully automatic weapons) and especially armor piercing rounds. I don't think it's *likely* that we'll ever need such a thing, but to be totally honest I wouldn't say it's too far outside the realm of possibility either.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:34 PM #123
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In all fairness, it's getting pretty tiresome when people like drunkkoala take a respectfully worded post and respond with a personal attack. It's bull**** and it's why the level of debate in this forum generally sucks. There's no reason to expect a person to respond respectfully after he's been insulted in the first place, there'd be no issues if we didn't have people initiating it like the afformentioned idiot
it is even more tiresome when people try and make themselves the worlds foremost expert on firearms, since they were in the army at one point or another.

i called him a ****ing idiot, get the **** over it.

Quote:
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And who the **** are you to try and tell me anything about the army?
If some ******* calls me out, I'm going to go right back at him. Especially some know it all guy who thinks he knows everything about guns because he reads swat magazine.
the same can be said about you...you stated you use assualt weapons to kill other people, what about the 90% of the other firearms that weren't meant to kill people? are you an expert on those as well? according to your post, you shouldn't be calling yourself an expert, becuase you are just in the army and use the weapons they give you.

i just find it really ironic that you call yourself a firearms expert, but post the **** you post...thanks for the chuckle though.


fyi, knowing how to disassemble/reassemble and shoot military equipment doesn't make you any sort of expert of firearms. at all.

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Old 04-03-2008, 04:34 PM #124
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My point was to how you handled the attack. instead of letting it slide or being a bigger man about it, you slid back like a child and pouted....

all i was saying. "Tough guy"

I've been around military people my whole life... I know all kinds of "military styles" Yours happens to be my least favorite.
Your "military people" were probably all no-load rear echelon types then. I don't see what's wrong with defending oneself against a personal attack which I certainly didn't initiate.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:37 PM #125
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it is even more tiresome when people try and make themselves the worlds foremost expert on firearms, since they were in the army at one point or another.

i called him a ****ing idiot, get the **** over it.
Yes but he was posting his knowledge and what backed it up, you were just being stupid.
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Old 04-03-2008, 04:37 PM #126
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Your "military people" were probably all no-load rear echelon types then. I don't see what's wrong with defending oneself against a personal attack which I certainly didn't initiate.
No disrespect meant, but this is the internet. I am sure you know there will be a fair share of people who would rather argue, and insult, then actually discuss, and rationalize.
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