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Old 03-27-2008, 08:26 PM #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyle View Post

You missed the point of his article. He was referring to the average middle class American male. Of course not everyone in the US is like this.... that's why he wrote the article.
If so then why didn't he say so? I dont get that vibe from the essay at all, and find it very offenisive.

Let's face it. Do you not think of a white person if I were to say "middle class" out loud? Of course you do. Whether or not it is currently a true stereotype is irrelevant, it was there for the sake of the argument and if he said it any other way, it wouldn't have the desired Pathos appeal.
When someone says 'middle class' I think American, not 'White Guy'.

The middle class citizens are the most outspoken social class in the United States, this is why he wrote the article.
True, but we arn't the most powerful... and not all of us are White Males either.

Perhaps you should go back to your highschool English class and study rhetoric and rhetorical analysis... it's beneficial.
Thats a low blow, but it is not I whom is arguing with a High Schooler.
.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:29 PM #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyle View Post
You missed my point. I understand what I said was an opinion; that was my intent. I was trying to explain to you that not only are your ideals your opinion, but they are, by no means, correct or incorrect.

Why did I say this? Because you implied that if I didn't agree with those ideals, then I'm not a true American. I disagree, as will most other people on this forum.
But that is what makes you a true American, you can stand up and say 'F*CK YOU!' to me. And by the system I was not only implying the Government, society is a system as well.
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:43 PM #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyle View Post
Let's face it. Do you not think of a white person if I were to say "middle class" out loud? Of course you do.
Ummm. No. lol
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
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Old 03-27-2008, 08:51 PM #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
If so then why didn't he say so? I dont get that vibe from the essay at all, and find it very offenisive.
Umm... ok? I don't see why that's my problem. If you misinterpret something, then what gives you the nerve to speak out against the author when it's a result of your ignorance?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
When someone says 'middle class' I think American, not 'White Guy'.
...ok, and what does that American look like?

Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
True, but we arn't the most powerful... and not all of us are White Males either.
I never said we were the most powerful, and neither did he. Of course we all aren't white.
The middle class is stereotyped to be the white, suburb-living, blue collar-working, American. He was giving the male point of view...

...Again, here's some of my quote from before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyle
I think the author addressed this at the end of the article with the cultural melting pot that may lie within the Angry White Man's bloodstream.
The author wasn't saying the "Angry White Man" was racist.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
Thats a low blow, but it is not I whom is arguing with a High Schooler.
Wow, good one... and how does that benefit your rebuttal? I was merely saying that rhetoric and rhetorical analysis was something I learned in High School. I was questioning your credibility.


Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball View Post
But that is what makes you a true American, you can stand up and say 'F*CK YOU!' to me. And by the system I was not only implying the Government, society is a system as well.
So, when your favorite candidate is elected president, and he does everything you want done in this country, are you still considered a "True American?"

Your idea of a "true american" contradicts itself. The fact that you AREN'T forced to do what you don't want to do is what makes America free. You are going to tell me that I have to be a rebel to be a true American?
You're full of ****.
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Last edited by nyle : 03-27-2008 at 08:55 PM.
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Old 03-27-2008, 09:31 PM #110
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Originally Posted by nyle View Post
...ok, and what does that American look like?
In the middle class suburban neighborhood I grew up in they looked peach, tan, brown, dark brown, "black", olive....oh and there were a couple with freckles. I think that to a person whose grown up in a suburb where the majority were white, this person's mind conjures the image of a white middle class American.

Guess that makes it an issue of perspective because when I hear the phrase "middle class" I don't actually have a particular ethnicity come to mind. Actually, when I hear that phrase the image of tract housing is the first thing that comes to my mind. Lol.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:12 PM #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaka zulu View Post
In the middle class suburban neighborhood I grew up in they looked peach, tan, brown, dark brown, "black", olive....oh and there were a couple with freckles. I think that to a person whose grown up in a suburb where the majority were white, this person's mind conjures the image of a white middle class American.

Guess that makes it an issue of perspective because when I hear the phrase "middle class" I don't actually have a particular ethnicity come to mind. Actually, when I hear that phrase the image of tract housing is the first thing that comes to my mind. Lol.
Quit trying to convince yourself that you're impartial to racial stereotypes.

Most people think of a white family when they think of a middle class family, and the author merely played off that.
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:24 PM #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyle View Post
Quit trying to convince yourself that you're impartial to racial stereotypes.

Most people think of a white family when they think of a middle class family, and the author merely played off that.
Lol. I guess you missed the part about perspective. I'm human and fall prey to stereotyping just like anyone else, however I was being quite honest. First thing that comes to my mind IS tract housing. Funny thing is that I'd be considered among the middle class, but I've yet to live in a development........it was how I grew up though. So, since that's what I know and since the neighborhood I lived in was pretty ethnically diverse that's my experience. Thus the reason that I don't subscribe to that particular stereotype.

It could also be that you, or most white people think of white people in the middle class familial scenario. As a purely academic curiosity, I wonder how many 'minorities' would say that's the first thing that comes to their mind.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:32 PM #113
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Originally Posted by shaka zulu View Post
Lol. I guess you missed the part about perspective. I'm human and fall prey to stereotyping just like anyone else, however I was being quite honest. First thing that comes to my mind IS tract housing. Funny thing is that I'd be considered among the middle class, but I've yet to live in a development........it was how I grew up though. So, since that's what I know and since the neighborhood I lived in was pretty ethnically diverse that's my experience. Thus the reason that I don't subscribe to that particular stereotype.

It could also be that you, or most white people think of white people in the middle class familial scenario. As a purely academic curiosity, I wonder how many 'minorities' would say that's the first thing that comes to their mind.
I wasn't talking about the tract housing (although, yes, that is what I think of when I think of the middle class).

There is no point in repeating myself. The author chose the Angry WHITE Man to portray the middle class because that thought is practically a general consensus...
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:40 PM #114
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Originally Posted by corporationpaintball View Post
I support my country in the best way (I think) possible, by finding it's faults and having them corrected.
So are you saying that blue collar white males are a fault in America? Because that sounds pretty stupid...
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Old 03-27-2008, 10:44 PM #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaka zulu View Post
In the middle class suburban neighborhood I grew up in they looked peach, tan, brown, dark brown, "black", olive....oh and there were a couple with freckles. I think that to a person whose grown up in a suburb where the majority were white, this person's mind conjures the image of a white middle class American.

Guess that makes it an issue of perspective because when I hear the phrase "middle class" I don't actually have a particular ethnicity come to mind. Actually, when I hear that phrase the image of tract housing is the first thing that comes to my mind. Lol.
wtf is olive colored?
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Old 03-27-2008, 11:31 PM #116
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wtf is olive colored?
You've never seen an italian or middle eastern person with a slightly olive undertone to their complexion? I've noticed this in women of those ethnicities.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
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Old 03-28-2008, 07:42 AM #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyle View Post
Umm... ok? I don't see why that's my problem. If you misinterpret something, then what gives you the nerve to speak out against the author when it's a result of your ignorance?

Nay, Nay, my speaking out against the author is a result of HIS ignorance. All I am stating is that the 'White Man' has no reason to be angry. I am not angry at you in any way, and am enjoying talking with someone who doesn't give in.

"Don't complain about the snow on your neighbors roof if you own doorstep is unclean."
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True, but I dont see how that is relevant to what we are talking about... it's too early for me to figure out metaphors and the like.


...ok, and what does that American look like?
Many things, and not all of them are men or white. I have stated this a few times now...




The author wasn't saying the "Angry White Man" was racist.
Well then perhaps the title should be "Angry Average American" so that it does not offend minority groups (like myself).


Wow, good one... and how does that benefit your rebuttal? I was merely saying that rhetoric and rhetorical analysis was something I learned in High School. I was questioning your credibility.

No one on the Internet has 'credibility' as far as I know, the Internet is not secure thus it can't be trusted. Plain and simple.



So, when your favorite candidate is elected president, and he does everything you want done in this country, are you still considered a "True American?"
That would be imposible, as everyone screws up. And I dont mean they get laid in the Oval Office, I mean they order an attack on a Sovereign Nation for no good reason.

Your idea of a "true american" contradicts itself. The fact that you AREN'T forced to do what you don't want to do is what makes America free. You are going to tell me that I have to be a rebel to be a true American?
You're full of ****.

What part of being American doesn't contradict itself? We ***** and moan about the smallest privacy laws but dont give a crap if millions of Africans are slaughtered in genocide. This in NO WAY states 'I hate america' as I know you will twist it.
I love America and I couldn't live anywhere else, but that doesn't mean that we are yet a 'perfict union' and we must never stop trying to change to become a 'more perfict union'. If you are happy with the status quo, then in my opinion you need to rethink your status as an American Citizen.

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So are you saying that blue collar white males are a fault in America? Because that sounds pretty stupid...
That is a stupid inference, and I never in any way-shape-or-form stated that 'blue collar white males' are at fault, I simply stated they have no reason to be angry.
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:23 AM #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball View Post
Well then perhaps the title should be "Angry Average American" so that it does not offend minority groups (like myself).
Perhaps you missed the part that says:

Quote:
He’s not a racist, but he is annoyed and disappointed when people of certain backgrounds exhibit behavior that typifies the worst stereotypes of their race. He’s willing to give everybody a fair chance if they work hard, play by the rules and learn English.
I'm trying not to be stereotypical here, but when I think of someone who gets pissed off at minorities exhibiting behavior that typifies the worst stereotypes of their race, I don't think of minorities. I know black people that hate it when black kids act gangster and hood because they know it's making people look down on them because of their actions, but for the most part a white person is who he's referring to. And offending minorities should not be what everyone tries not to do when speaking their mind.

Hanging a noose on a predominately black church's door is ****ed up (happened in FL where I lived), labeling a write-up "The Angry White Man" is not, and should not be, offensive. If you think it is, you really need to sack up in my opinion... He is talking about your average, middle-class, blue collar white man who is tired of being pushed to the back of the line in EVERYTHING.

Not the average American period.

And Irish-American is a minority group?
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Old 03-28-2008, 09:37 AM #119
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I'm glad white men are angry. Anger has been proven to reduce the length of your life. We shant have to worry about them much longer.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:06 PM #120
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That is a stupid inference, and I never in any way-shape-or-form stated that 'blue collar white males' are at fault, I simply stated they have no reason to be angry.
Well, you've aggresively stated that you disliked this essay, and that you strongly oppose this, and strongly oppose that, blah blah etc. etc.

Then you say that your goal is to remove faults in America.

It sounded like you were saying that whites are a fault in America. If I may, can I ask your ethnic background?
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:07 PM #121
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I'm glad white men are angry. Anger has been proven to reduce the length of your life. We shant have to worry about them much longer.
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Old 03-28-2008, 12:14 PM #122
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Old 03-30-2008, 01:08 AM #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
Nay, Nay, my speaking out against the author is a result of HIS ignorance. All I am stating is that the 'White Man' has no reason to be angry. I am not angry at you in any way, and am enjoying talking with someone who doesn't give in.
Like I said before...
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyle
the anger is a representation of the wellbeing of this country, and its misdirection. It's not because other races are taking his oppurtunities.
It's not that he's literally angry at a person, but the anger represents a passion. Giving him a face as well as some emotional appeal. Otherwise, the article wouldn't be as definitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
True, but I dont see how that is relevant to what we are talking about... it's too early for me to figure out metaphors and the like.
What are you talking about? That quote was not another point, it was supporting the sentence above it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyle
If you misinterpret something, then what gives you the nerve to speak out against the author when it's a result of your ignorance?
Too early to figure out metaphors? Then what are you doing trying to interpret this article?

Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
Many things, and not all of them are men or white. I have stated this a few times now...
Missed my point again. You can't tell me you think of a calico human when you think of a middle class family.
The author spoke off of a commonly known stereotype, doesn't matter if you specifically believe in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
Well then perhaps the title should be "Angry Average American" so that it does not offend minority groups (like myself).
He was playing off of a common generalization, which I addressed earlier.
Don't like it? Get over it... life isn't fair.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
No one on the Internet has 'credibility' as far as I know, the Internet is not secure thus it can't be trusted. Plain and simple.
Which is why you have to establish it, however, that doesn't mean you can't have it. Ethos, Pathos, and Logos. The three techniques that fulfill the art of rhetoric.
It doesn't matter if you are popular within a forum, but providing information and sources contained in your argument is considered establishing credibility. I was discrediting you, so don't try to play it off as nothing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
What part of being American doesn't contradict itself? We ***** and moan about the smallest privacy laws but dont give a crap if millions of Africans are slaughtered in genocide. This in NO WAY states 'I hate america' as I know you will twist it.
I love America and I couldn't live anywhere else, but that doesn't mean that we are yet a 'perfict union' and we must never stop trying to change to become a 'more perfict union'. If you are happy with the status quo, then in my opinion you need to rethink your status as an American Citizen.
First of all, let me say that you were playing off of a stereotype, yourself, in the first 3 sentences of your quoted post.
*Insert the previous Confucious quote here*

Second, my scenario was to question your ideal of 'challenging the system,' 'Challenging the system' isn't required to be a 'true american' and now, in all honesty, I think you are playing off the technicalities of that statement since the fullness of that statement doesn't work. Challenging the system is different than inducing change. A system is a constant, if you challenge that system, then that means you are trying to demand a difference in something that has usually been in place for quite some time and also contributes to other entities. If you are inducing change, then you are pushing for and alteration in policy or agenda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by corporationpaintball
This in NO WAY states 'I hate america' as I know you will twist it.
I never once said or had the intent to say that you hate America.
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