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Old 03-24-2008, 02:18 PM #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paintballer9876 View Post
Yes he probley doesn't want all white people dead because hes going to need a paycheck sooner or later, but the guy is a nut job, plain and simple.

How does one eliminate racism, its an emotion so getting rid of it is impossible its the individuals choice, and forcefully getting rid of it creates more racism.
Not True. If we could work to point out the flaws of stereotyping, both positive and negative, we could overcome a lot of Racism. but doing this is a task in and of itself.

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Now if this nut-job does in fact mean that he wants all white people dead, he is dumber than i expected. Yes whites did use blacks as slaves, and also whites gave them freedom and sacraficed many thousands of people in the civil war to give them freedom. After a number of years they were given there freedoms like the right to vote to attend "white schools" and now they are an equal in the eyes of many americans. This guy is pissed off because there are more white successful (sp?) people than black, and a reason for this is because many blacks would rather be a "gangster" then be successful and go to collage and make 6 figures a year. His *****ing should be directed at fixing the black community not wanting to kill all white people.

So thats my rant flame or agree, w/e.
Not even you can deny the rampant divide between Blacks and Whites in America. and your simple analogy that the "Gangster" attitude is causing it is simply Moronic. Blacks in America do not choose to live in the poorer areas where crime is big. many of them are born into the environment and because of the environmental elements, lack of jobs, poor standards of living, poor schools. they are forced to survive. and for many that is peddling drugs.
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:46 AM #23
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Originally Posted by paintballer9876 View Post
Now if this nut-job does in fact mean that he wants all white people dead, he is dumber than i expected. Yes whites did use blacks as slaves, and also whites gave them freedom and sacraficed many thousands of people in the civil war to give them freedom. After a number of years they were given there freedoms like the right to vote to attend "white schools" and now they are an equal in the eyes of many americans. This guy is pissed off because there are more white successful (sp?) people than black, and a reason for this is because many blacks would rather be a "gangster" then be successful and go to collage and make 6 figures a year. His *****ing should be directed at fixing the black community not wanting to kill all white people.

So thats my rant flame or agree, w/e.
And the award for one of the most ignorant statements I have read thus far in '08 on this site goes to.........YOU!

1. "Given their freedoms".....here, let me help you with that one.."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness." Since white men didn't create Africans, those freedoms weren't theirs to "give back," so to speak. Your perspective is a little off.

2. Many blacks would rather be gangsters? How old are you? Have you lived long enough, or seen enough life outside the few blocks you live in or the miles you traveled to visit relatives that you can truly make such a statement? Do you pay attention in history class? Many of these affluent whites you refer to have "old money." You know, the kind that minorities were systematically kept from obtaining. I'm only 33 and I've personally experienced racism. It is alive and well and there are still white men in power/affluence who'd rather give power and money to another white man than see anyone else wield it. This isn't to say that all/half/most/any more than 1% are like that, but they do exist and there are more than you'd probably think.

3. I don't have a diploma, didn't complete college........I make six figures and went back to school for neuroscience/bio cybernetics and If I'd continued I'd be Phi Beta Kappa. I know the lyrics to probably a hundred songs or so which include those that are filled with curse words, stereotypes and slurs of all types.......as well as Shakespearean sonnets, poems and Harlem Renaissance prose, military strategy among many others.

So much for your stereotypes.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
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Old 03-25-2008, 02:59 AM #24
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so where do we go from here?

we go to his house, beat his wife to death while he watches, shortly after we stop by your house and slap the **** outa your parents for raising such a commie, liberal, dildo...Shortly after we will gather samples from your Idaho tap water to examine how in fact Boise has given birth to some of the dumbest mother****ers that ever walked the planet....Of course you take tops... Congratulations.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:57 AM #25
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Judging by what I've heard and read about the man I'd say that he views the world through the lense of race and class. Growing in a highly segregated environment is something that us young folks probably will never be able to understand, but through his inability to grow up and correct his world view, he has come full circle to the point where now he is part of the problem, not the solution. He seems to have no desire to reconcile or change, so as far as "where do we go from here", I don't think there's anywhere we can go with the guy. He's a bigot, plain and simple.
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Old 03-25-2008, 09:07 AM #26
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This is true, and I am quite in support of economic darwinism, however... The current situation that our country is in will leave the country in a horrible state for the next (my) generation to pick up. This is economically, socially, and environmentally. What with social security, the environment / fossil fuels being used up, international relations being poor, etc.
I'm a 'member' of the next generation as well. And I agree, the system is very flawed, and change must (and will) happen either that or the US will no longer be able to hold it's current position as the only 'Superpower' on earth.
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Old 03-25-2008, 11:11 AM #27
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Our country, as a republic, has always been run by rich white people. Hence the creation of the Electoral College. Our forefathers didn't think the average American was intelligent enough to decide the outcome of this country, and instated the EC as a means of preventing a person from becoming president simply because they are "popular" among the people.

I would argue that race isn't an issue when discussing who the country is run by. I believe that the country is run by rich people in general who mainly happen to be white. And why shouldn't it be? Money = power, education, opportunities for furthering technology, etc.

Despite the 20 year gap between Rev. Wright and Martin Luther King Jr., I find the two interesting to compare and contrast.

Huh? The EC was to prevent one area (big city vs. rural country) from etting all the support to the detriment of the other.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:10 PM #28
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Originally Posted by Haga652001 View Post
Not True. If we could work to point out the flaws of stereotyping, both positive and negative, we could overcome a lot of Racism. but doing this is a task in and of itself.



Not even you can deny the rampant divide between Blacks and Whites in America. and your simple analogy that the "Gangster" attitude is causing it is simply Moronic. Blacks in America do not choose to live in the poorer areas where crime is big. many of them are born into the environment and because of the environmental elements, lack of jobs, poor standards of living, poor schools. they are forced to survive. and for many that is peddling drugs.
Really so they are born into these areas so there is no way that they can not get out of it? They can get out of it its not like this is ****ing dictatorship. Something about this country is that people can get out of poverty with a bit of hard work but people choose not to and therefore are poor (this is not just blacks either). Lack of jobs brings up how our jobs are in other countries, but that is another thread and another time.

I read over my post again and it does sound pretty dumb in some parts, i was kinda drink that night so excuse the majority of my post, we have all had stupid posts.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:13 PM #29
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Well it looks like there's people coming out now that knew Wright as a child talking about how Wright was born in a middle-upper class home.
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:28 PM #30
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Well it looks like there's people coming out now that knew Wright as a child talking about how Wright was born in a middle-upper class home.
Could you please explain what is significant about this?
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Old 03-25-2008, 12:34 PM #31
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Really so they are born into these areas so there is no way that they can not get out of it? They can get out of it its not like this is ****ing dictatorship. Something about this country is that people can get out of poverty with a bit of hard work but people choose not to and therefore are poor (this is not just blacks either). Lack of jobs brings up how our jobs are in other countries, but that is another thread and another time.

I read over my post again and it does sound pretty dumb in some parts, i was kinda drink that night so excuse the majority of my post, we have all had stupid posts.
Drunk man speaks a sober man's mind. Have you ever lived in abject poverty?

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Well it looks like there's people coming out now that knew Wright as a child talking about how Wright was born in a middle-upper class home.
So did I, but that hasn't stopped me from being discriminated against AND being called a n****r......and I grew up in SoCal. Lol. Much of what Wright is speaking about isn't the plight of "poor blacks." It's the "black experience" in America. He's referring to what it's like being a "second-class" citizen.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
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Old 03-25-2008, 01:23 PM #32
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So did I, but that hasn't stopped me from being discriminated against AND being called a n****r......and I grew up in SoCal. Lol. Much of what Wright is speaking about isn't the plight of "poor blacks." It's the "black experience" in America. He's referring to what it's like being a "second-class" citizen.
How is getting called a name being a "second-class" citizen? When I was young I was skinny and had big ears. I've been called plenty of names before but I never considered myself a "second-class" citizen because of it, I just considered the people that were doing it to be pricks. Assertive women get called mean names to, so do skinny kids with glasses, so do kids who watch star trek, or dress like a hippy. The difference is whether you choose to make yourself into a victim over it or whether you ignore it and continue to make yourself into the best that you can be.
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Old 03-25-2008, 03:21 PM #33
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How is getting called a name being a "second-class" citizen? When I was young I was skinny and had big ears. I've been called plenty of names before but I never considered myself a "second-class" citizen because of it, I just considered the people that were doing it to be pricks. Assertive women get called mean names to, so do skinny kids with glasses, so do kids who watch star trek, or dress like a hippy. The difference is whether you choose to make yourself into a victim over it or whether you ignore it and continue to make yourself into the best that you can be.

You'll get no argument from me there, however you inferred that "name-calling" was my impetus for using the second-class citizen card. It isn't and I don't consider blacks the only ones. I have a meter for determining whether or not you are a second-class citizen:

If your ethnic group/cultural group has equal access to the highest echelons of power where you live then you are a "first-class" citizen. For Americans, that would be the Presidency. I maintain that until a woman, black man, asian man, etc etc has held office at least, but preferably more than, once......that group will have graduated (theoretically) to "first-class" citizenship.

That's the short version of my little theory. BTW, I never use the victim mentality when proving an argument or providing the foundations for one. Psychologically/sociologically speaking however, there can be arguments made for certain "social ailments" that one group may perceive as the "victim mentality" when that group hasn't experienced what it's like to be the persons who they claim are acting like "victims." Pacification/nullification through psychological means of a large group is used/recognized even in psy ops in the military, so it does exist and could actually be a whole other thread....and a long one.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:23 PM #34
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Originally Posted by shaka zulu View Post
If your ethnic group/cultural group has equal access to the highest echelons of power where you live then you are a "first-class" citizen. For Americans, that would be the Presidency. I maintain that until a woman, black man, asian man, etc etc has held office at least, but preferably more than, once......that group will have graduated (theoretically) to "first-class" citizenship.
So you're saying that untill someone who looks like you becomes president you'll consider yourself a second-class citizen?

Thats absurd.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:37 PM #35
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So you're saying that untill someone who looks like you becomes president you'll consider yourself a second-class citizen?

Thats absurd.
Not entirely absurd, I mean the reason that WASPs have dominated the white house almost exclusively since this country's birth isn't because they were the most qualified.

Think of it as a marker, when voters can envision a president who is unlike them looking out for their interests.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:39 PM #36
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Not entirely absurd, I mean the reason that WASPs have dominated the white house almost exclusively since this country's birth isn't because they were the most qualified.

Think of it as a marker, when voters can envision a president who is unlike them looking out for their interests.
Race is only a factor in that equation by close minded peoples.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:40 PM #37
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So you're saying that untill someone who looks like you becomes president you'll consider yourself a second-class citizen?

Thats absurd.
Wrong. I consider myself a man. Period. What I'm saying is that I belong to a particular ethnic group which finds it's home in America and until someone who directly represents my ethnic group sits in the White House, as far as this society/sociology, etc is concerned, those of my ethnic group are second-class citizens. This is basic cultural anthropology. If you're in college go ask an anthro professor about nation-states and the ruling, or "in power" majority. Those in the highest offices of power represent the first-class. In a monarchy these people would have been known as aristocracy or members of the ruling family's bloodline. In our system of organization (a nation-state), we have a government and not a monarchy. Those in govt at its highest levels represent the "first-class" citizenship.

Look at the disparity in income for women and minorities. Facts are facts. I don't make them up.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:43 PM #38
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Race is only a factor in that equation by close minded peoples.
Then explain how race has played no factor in that equation my open-minded friend.

edit: I was even making that statement entirely about race, sex and religion were also factors involved.
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:52 PM #39
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This is not a monarchy. Blacks can achieve political influence through other means than the presidency. In fact, many have. Look at Justice Thomas and Condi Rice.

IMO, your giving race more weight than it deserves. Besides a sense of pride, what can a black president give the black community that a white, yellow, or brown president cant?
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Old 03-25-2008, 07:52 PM #40
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Then explain how race has played no factor in that equation my open-minded friend.

edit: I was even making that statement entirely about race, sex and religion were also factors involved.
Because the thread is about race. My retort, had you posted regarding race alone, would have been "where are the blonde Catholics in office."
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Old 03-25-2008, 08:44 PM #41
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This is not a monarchy. Blacks can achieve political influence through other means than the presidency. In fact, many have. Look at Justice Thomas and Condi Rice.

IMO, your giving race more weight than it deserves. Besides a sense of pride, what can a black president give the black community that a white, yellow, or brown president cant?
You, my friend are still missing the point. I haven't said anything about pride, and I keep using the word ethnicity. I never even said that black absolutely cannot get into CERTAIN positions of power. I'll tell you what, let's take another approach.

Would you feel comfortable representing the needs of pregnant women all across America as a lobbyist? How do you think they'd feel if you were representing them? How about the accupuncturists/internal eastern medicine practitioners in America?

If you're honest with us and yourself, unless you're a woman and have been pregnant, the answer is "no." And the women would laugh at a man repping their concerns as well. Same goes for the accupuncturists/eastern med practitioners. Why? Because since you'll never know what pregnancy is like you can never fully represent their interests as well as someone whose been pregnant.

Now, you may have advisers and people who tell you what it's like to be pregnant, but being a representative is as much about being a figurehead as it is about your deeds. And, I keep taking this away from race and trying to make this about ethnicity and culture. If you grew up in the ghetto, then people from the ghetto would feel better about you representing them because they'd feel that you better understand "the people." Or, rather, the people from that particular socio-economic strata........this includes poor white, black, asian, and latino people. When's the last time your heard someone who could be classified as "poor" voice that they felt like a candidate had their best interests at heart? Poor can be its own subculture as well.

But, again, now from a gender standpoint......women are second-class and until they have a woman in office, most of them will feel that way. Why? Because numbers bear that out. They earn less. They have less access to the uppermost echelons of power in this country and when they do "make it to the top" they are still payed less in most cases.

Let's ask the same question you asked....What do women get by having a woman in office besides some pride? Well, maybe some policies in place which level the playing field even more between women and their male counterparts. Maybe a bill comes up that does nothing for women but gives the wealthiest males even greater advantages and the female president is then in the position to foster change and/or veto such a bill until they bring it back to the floor in such a way as it includes the wealthiest women.....lol. I don't know, but I can tell you that most of black America hasn't felt since Lincoln that the Republican party gives a crap about them..........and only in the last couple decades or so, the Democrats. Which is actually a catch 22 because many blacks are Christian and many Democratic policies conflict with many of their beliefs......so it's actually a "lose/lose" situation.

Hope that helps on some small level.
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Originally Posted by CrazyLittle: Sapiens is a species. NASCAR is a RACE!!!

Last edited by shaka zulu : 03-25-2008 at 08:54 PM.
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Old 03-25-2008, 10:58 PM #42
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I think I understand you now and I agree. A certain group is best represented by someone of that group.
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