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Old 03-20-2008, 10:19 PM #22
Adema3412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
I don't feel like arguing that, all I can say is that the public outcry was far worse for Obama, so most of my fellow Americans agree with me, which is all that really matters in voting season.

Not many people made a big deal about McCain's comments.
You're right that in the end that's all that matters, but the fact that people didn't make a big deal about McCain using the term Gook, doesn't mean the term wasn't racist and inappropriate. It says much about America and how racism is more acceptable when white people aren't being the ones who are implicated.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:22 PM #23
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If anything, we should be discussing how racist and ridiculous McCain's "gook" comment was.

Obama observing how the majority of white Americans view blacks was an intelligent observation. Not a racist one.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:33 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
When this "certain issue" happens to be a comment like "God Damn America!," then yes, he should.

Well. I guess that issue has been put to rest then. I disagree completely. Distancing himself from the comments made and denouncing them is enough for me.

Don't resort to making sensationalist hypotheticals please.

I don't see how it's different other than the fact that her comments weren't as extreme. It's not a hypothetical, I was being serious. She made comments that angered people, quite similarly to the comments Wright made in the video clip circulating. Should he disassociate himself from her for saying these things for the same reason he should disassociate himself from his pastor?

"Sees things differently?!" I sure he hope he does. If anything, this idiot has affected him in a negative way. Your opinion on this issue is vastly out of line with most Americans, you'll learn this come November.

Show me how he has affected him negatively. I don't see him running around spouting off the **** Wright said in the controversial clip. That is an awfully strong assumption you are making concerning November considering it's only March. There is a long time until election day.

An Obama supporter calling anyone a sheep, let alone a conservative Republican whose party is often ridiculed in the media, is outrageous.

I know there are a massive number of sheepish Obama supporters. Those people annoy me. Any sort of blind following annoys me. I strongly believe that anyone voting should be forced to be educated on the candidates further than "He can give a good speech" or "I just like him". I am only an Obama supporter because he is the only candidate that currently stands a chance of becoming president that I don't despise completely. And I think we can all agree that the media is a joke, regardless of who claims to get picked on.
Responses are bolded.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:37 PM #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
So we should only address problems that you deem important? If Obama's entire campaign revolved around race I would agree with you, but it's dumb to say that he shouldn't talk about race at all.
John McCain isn't talking about race. Mitt Romney didn't talk about race. Very few nominees do, race takes a backseat to other important issues.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412
Point me to this lie, because as far as I have read, aside from one unsubstantiated rumor, Obama said that he was not present for the soundclips that were being plastered all over the news.
That in itself is a lie. In almost twenty years, Obama claims he never heard that type of speech. Look at the congregation's reaction to Wright's hate, they applaud and affirm it. If they weren't used to hearing it, they would exchange awkward glances and stares. We have soundclips from many different sermons, all preaching hatred. How could he not have heard this? But then again, Obama is the same man that recieved $250,000 from Tony Rezko, who is on trial for money laundering and corruption this very moment.

Hardly a catalyst for change, indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412
His speech on race has been heralded by countless sources, albeit not Fox News, as one of the most impressive speeches in US political history.
The MSM will never condemn Obama, you should know that by now. And if it was so well-received, why did Clinton gain 14 points on him in polls?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412
And question, do you disagree with what Obama said about white people's typical response to running into a black man on the street or do you just think he shouldn't say it?
Does Obama know enough about every white person to describe that as a "typical" response? No, that's why people are offended and why he shouldn't say it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins View Post
Should we just throw the racism discussions under the rug and not let anyone attempt to combat it? The resident has a very special opportunity and that is the ability to speak to America
You attack my typo then spell "President" wrong in the same post, well done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins
oh and lawl at "islamofacism"
Bin Laden just released a new video promising action against the EU, I don't think its something to "lawl" at.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins
and you sound like an iraq war supporter which makes me giggle
And you sound like a disenfranchised liberal which makes me giggle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins
His former pastor's words are not representative of Obama and even Obama himself said the pastor's view of society was "distorted". Find another argument to waste your breath on. He lied to no one.
Except that he said he had never such comments before the story got big, then said he did in his speech.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
You're right that in the end that's all that matters, but the fact that people didn't make a big deal about McCain using the term Gook, doesn't mean the term wasn't racist and inappropriate.
You're right, it just means that most people didn't find it 'racist and inappropriate.'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412
It says much about America and how racism is more acceptable when white people aren't being the ones who are implicated.
You can't be serious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins View Post
Obama observing how the majority of white Americans view blacks was an intelligent observation. Not a racist one.
Because Obama knows how the majority of white Americans act, right?
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:45 PM #26
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Originally Posted by HuktAwnFoniks View Post
Well. I guess that issue has been put to rest then. I disagree completely. Distancing himself from the comments made and denouncing them is enough for me.
It doesn't matter if its enough for you, what matters is if it is enough for the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuktAwnFoniks
I don't see how it's different other than the fact that her comments weren't as extreme.
That is exactly how it is different, and his wife's comments will hurt him too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuktAwnFoniks
It's not a hypothetical, I was being serious. She made comments that angered people, quite similarly to the comments Wright made in the video clip circulating. Should he disassociate himself from her for saying these things for the same reason he should disassociate himself from his pastor?
One is his wife, one is his pastor. You can stop going to a church a lot easier than you can divorce your wife.

His wife's comments didn't cause his rival to rise 14 points in polls, either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HuktAwnFoniks
Show me how he has affected him negatively. I don't see him running around spouting off the **** Wright said in the controversial clip. That is an awfully strong assumption you are making concerning November considering it's only March. There is a long time until election day.
Gallup, Rasmussen, RCP, and more all show McCain with big leads over Obama. It used to not be that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Reid, Times of London
Barack Obama has been significantly damaged by the controversy over his pastor’s inflammatory remarks and the issue has become a serious threat to his presidential ambitions, polls suggest.



A new national Gallup tracking poll shows Hillary Clinton regaining her lead over Mr Obama for the first time in a month, now leading 49 per cent to 42, a 13-point shift to the former First Lady in less than a fortnight.

Mrs Clinton also holds a 16-point lead over Mr Obama in Pennsylvania, their next contest on April 22. In addition, Mr Obama has lost his once-commanding lead among independent voters to John McCain, the Republican nominee, in a new CBS poll. The survey shows Mr McCain with leads over both Democrats, a sign of how their protracted battle threatens to damage the eventual nominee.

Despite praise for Mr Obama’s speech, when he used the controversy to challenge America to move beyond its current racial tensions, aides to Mrs Clinton believe that the Wright controversy offers the former First Lady perhaps her best chance of winning the Democratic nomination.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle3591359.ece
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:47 PM #27
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So, Kellster = new LegacyWins.

And the line by line retorts are INCREDIBLY annoying. Rhetorical responses to major points are much more respectable than:

Quote:
sub-point
counterpoint
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sub-point
counterpoint
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irrelevant sub-point
non-witty counterpoint
Quote:
sub-point
counterpoint
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sub-point
counterpoint
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sub-point
counterpoint
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sub-point
counterpoint

There are more affluent ways to respond that would gain you more respect and yield more respectful responses. I for one would respond to you more, but I absolutely hate refuting point after point after point because it is a horrible way to debate and get one's point across.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:50 PM #28
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LegacyWins is actually a liberal pothead nowadays.
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:50 PM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellster View Post



You attack my typo then spell "President" wrong in the same post, well done.
I merely cut out a letter while moving sentences. You however couldn't spell fascism to begin with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
Bin Laden just released a new video promising action against the EU, I don't think its something to "lawl" at.
Sigh. Back to the point. Your pathetic neologisms can reside elsewhere. Associating the Islamic religion with the government system of fascism is hardly productive or accurate.
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Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
And you sound like a disenfranchised liberal which makes me giggle.
Like a typical right-wing partisan douche, you call me a liberal.

Hilarity ensues.
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Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
Except that he said he had never such comments before the story got big, then said he did in his speech.
What?

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Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
Because Obama knows how the majority of white Americans act, right?
Is it difficult to observe how the white occupants of a nation feel? Perhaps you are a troglodyte and have never witnessed society in action. His description of whites is correct. People of a race that are not used to seeing someone of another race are quick to assume the worst.


You strike against Obama for attempting to gather an observation on how his typical white grandmother acted towards blacks(in the past mind you, listen to his words). Your only argument against him is that he shouldn't speak of race. Well now that we have all destroyed your argument, now what?
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Old 03-20-2008, 10:55 PM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellster View Post
John McCain isn't talking about race. Mitt Romney didn't talk about race. Very few nominees do, race takes a backseat to other important issues.
Two things: Obama didn't talk about race in such a manner until he was forced too and yes the economy and the war in Iraq have been the prominent issues in the campaign, but that in no way means that any candidate shouldn't address other important issues.

Quote:
That in itself is a lie. In almost twenty years, Obama claims he never heard that type of speech. Look at the congregation's reaction to Wright's hate, they applaud and affirm it. If they weren't used to hearing it, they would exchange awkward glances and stares. We have soundclips from many different sermons, all preaching hatred. How could he not have heard this? But then again, Obama is the same man that recieved $250,000 from Tony Rezko, who is on trial for money laundering and corruption this very moment.
He just said he wasn't there for the sound clips, show me a source where Obama said "I have never heard Reverend Wright say anything inflammatory".

Quote:
The MSM will never condemn Obama, you should know that by now. And if it was so well-received, why did Clinton gain 14 points on him in polls?
There is a huge difference between condemning and saying that it was the best speech in recent political history.

And how can you think that the mainstream media won't "attack" Obama, when they were the ones who ran the entire Reverend Wright thing.

And why did Clinton gain from this, 30 second soundclip versus 30 minute speech.

Quote:
Does Obama know enough about every white person to describe that as a "typical" response? No, that's why people are offended and why he shouldn't say it.
You didn't answer my question, I asked you if you believe Obama's description of the typical response was accurate.

And yes, he knows enough to say that. If you aren't going to allow Obama to talk about how a group of people that he has had much contact with respond to a given situation, then you aren't allowing anyone to say much of anything.

Quote:
You're right, it just means that most people didn't find it 'racist and inappropriate.'
And they didn't find it inappropriate because it didn't offend them personally it offended an 'other' someone outside of their society.

Quote:
You can't be serious.
Yes I am. I don't know how you can really see it any other way. Just look at this forum for example. If a conservative and a liberal make two equally stupid comments, the conservative will be attacked by the liberals and the liberals by the conservatives, while the liberals will ignore the liberal's comment and the conservatives will ignore the conservative's comment. It's human nature.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:03 PM #31
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I don't follow polls and I encourage others to do the same. The media focuses far too much on bull**** polls. The population is not accurately represented in polling, thus I do not accept them. Using something as inaccurate as a poll to confidently suggest that Obama stands no chance against McCain in eight months is foolish to say the least.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:05 PM #32
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Originally Posted by Gatyr View Post
So, Kellster = new LegacyWins.

And the line by line retorts are INCREDIBLY annoying. Rhetorical responses to major points are much more respectable than:
So after not responding to me after I defeated you in the last thread, you come in mine and attack my posting style? Maybe instead of whining about my posts you should actually debate them?

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Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins View Post
I merely cut out a letter while moving sentences. You however couldn't spell fascism to begin with.
Do I sound like someone who can't spell 'fascism?' I simply made the same error you did, only I didn't make myself look stupid by pretending that I don't make typos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins
Sigh. Back to the point. Your pathetic neologisms can reside elsewhere. Associating the Islamic religion with the government system of fascism is hardly productive or accurate.
Extreme intolerance towards other peoples' beliefs to the point of violence makes one a fascist, does it not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins
Like a typical right-wing partisan douche, you call me a liberal.
Was I wrong about you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins
What?
Don't get into a debate with someone if you don't know the facts first.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1988061/posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins
Is it difficult to observe how the white occupants of a nation feel? Perhaps you are a troglodyte and have never witnessed society in action. His description of whites is correct. People of a race that are not used to seeing someone of another race are quick to assume the worst.
My God, you are a pseudointellectual.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FluffyMumkins
You strike against Obama for attempting to gather an observation on how his typical white grandmother acted towards blacks(in the past mind you, listen to his words). Your only argument against him is that he shouldn't speak of race. Well now that we have all destroyed your argument, now what?
Destroyed my argument? I'm sorry, but Obama's drop in polls support mine.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:07 PM #33
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Destroyed my argument? I'm sorry, but Obama's drop in polls support mine.
Truth is not a democracy.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:11 PM #34
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Extreme intolerance towards other peoples' beliefs to the point of violence makes one a fascist, does it not?
The term Islamofascist implies that Islam as a whole supports their actions. They are radical extremists that hide behind religion. Real Muslims would not behave in such a manner, similarly to these Evangelical "Christians" who support things that are quite contrary to Christian teachings.

They are not Islamic, they are radical insurgents.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:11 PM #35
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So after not responding to me after I defeated you in the last thread, you come in mine and attack my posting style? Maybe instead of whining about my posts you should actually debate them?

The same can be said about your interaction between you and Fluffy.

Extreme intolerance towards other peoples' beliefs to the point of violence makes one a fascist, does it not?

No.

Don't get into a debate with someone if you don't know the facts first.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1988061/posts

Your wording was very confusing, and that was what he was referring to.

My God, you are a pseudointellectual.

Maybe, but troglodyte is a pretty fun word to drop.
I'd suggest to everybody to reread your previous post to re-center this argument, or else it won't make any sense in 5 minutes.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:13 PM #36
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Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
He just said he wasn't there for the sound clips, show me a source where Obama said "I have never heard Reverend Wright say anything inflammatory".
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpu...hat-did-o.html

He lied.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412
And why did Clinton gain from this, 30 second soundclip versus 30 minute speech.
Which one is easier to remember?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412
You didn't answer my question, I asked you if you believe Obama's description of the typical response was accurate.
Unless 100% of whites are interviewed there is no way of knowing, so I would just keep my mouth shut.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:14 PM #37
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Maybe instead of whining about my posts you should actually debate them?
I did, and you kept posting the same mindless dribble, going on and on about how YOU feel, changing it from an exchange of points and logic to an argument using only pathos with minimal logic.

You can keep your delusions if you like to, but don't be arrogant enough to think that you "beat" someone when you constantly went off track by repeating the same thing, paid minimal attention to that major points and picked apart the smaller, less relevant parts of the post, and never fully backed your logic.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:17 PM #38
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The term Islamofascist implies that Islam as a whole supports their actions. They are radical extremists that hide behind religion. Real Muslims would not behave in such a manner, similarly to these Evangelical "Christians" who support things that are quite contrary to Christian teachings.

They are not Islamic, they are radical insurgents.
Islamofascism is a commonly used term to describe the extreme intolerance many Muslims exhibit. I've even heard several candidates mention it. Whether or not you agree with its use is irrelevant.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:17 PM #39
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God damn... There is entirely too much crap regarding race coming out of this Obama campaign and its critics. STFU!
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:18 PM #40
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Unless 100% of whites are interviewed there is no way of knowing, so I would just keep my mouth shut.
Read David Hume much?

But I don't believe a word that is coming out of your mouth for one reason, you have opinions and state them quite fervently. If you truly held the belief that unless you are 100% sure you shouldn't speak, you wouldn't speak.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:18 PM #41
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I did, and you kept posting the same mindless dribble, going on and on about how YOU feel, changing it from an exchange of points and logic to an argument using only pathos with minimal logic.

You can keep your delusions if you like to, but don't be arrogant enough to think that you "beat" someone when you constantly went off track by repeating the same thing, paid minimal attention to that major points and picked apart the smaller, less relevant parts of the post, and never fully backed your logic.


I picked apart your posts and all your major points. You never replied.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:20 PM #42
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Read David Hume much?

But I don't believe a word that is coming out of your mouth for one reason, you have opinions and state them quite fervently. If you truly held the belief that unless you are 100% sure you shouldn't speak, you wouldn't speak.
What I say and what a presidential candidate say are two different matters. I'm not running for president, I merely posted what I would do if I were in that situation.
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