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Old 03-19-2008, 12:41 PM #1
timmyt (Banned)
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Is it true?

Someone I work with is claiming that keeping Iraqi oil in the ground and keeping production low is one of the reasons why gas is so expensive. Drowning the market in Iraqi oil wouldn't make too many exxon execs happy.

If it's the 2nd largest known reserves of oil on the planet, why is production so low?

Is this true?

I can only find one article about it by Greg Palast:

excerpt:

Although its original concession of March 14, 1925, cove- red all of Iraq, the Iraq Petroleum Co., under the owner- ship of BP (23.75%), Shell (23.75%), CFP [of France] (23.75%), Exxon (11.85%), Mobil (11.85%), and [Calouste] Gulbenkian (5.0%), limited its production to fields constituting only one-half of 1 percent of the country's total area. During the Great Depression, the world was awash with oil and greater output from Iraq would simply have driven the price down to even lower levels.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artm...w.cgi/61/20480
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Old 03-19-2008, 12:58 PM #2
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False.
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:25 PM #3
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Can you elaborate?
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:36 PM #4
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its true as hell man.
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:39 PM #5
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And here I thought all these Gas companies were breaking profit records due to good marketing.
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:43 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyt View Post
And here I thought all these Gas companies were breaking profit records due to good marketing.
They're setting record profits because of the gigantic volume of oil products that America consumes. It might be an interesting point if consumers weren't setting new oil consumption records at the same time.

The biggest reason (besides supply and demand) that gas prices are so high right now is because of the decline in the US Dollar, compared to other world currencies.

Last edited by graysonp : 03-19-2008 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:52 PM #7
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They're setting record profits because of the gigantic volume of oil products that America consumes. It might be an interesting point if consumers weren't setting new oil consumption records at the same time.

The biggest reason (besides supply and demand) that gas prices are so high right now is because of the decline in the US Dollar, compared to other world currencies.
Well, that makes sense.
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:53 PM #8
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I was looking for an old thread where I posted this, but gas prices are being driven up by three factors:
War Premium, instability to the Middle East=Higher prices
Increase in demand from developing nations, namely India and China
Finally gas prices are being artificially inflated by speculation.

If I find my post I'll link you to it, but otherwise do a quick Google search on those topics.

Production is low in Iraq, because of instability, nobody is going to invest significant resources into a country that could change regimes, which could mean the loss of their investment.
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Old 03-19-2008, 02:58 PM #9
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They maybe having record profits, but look at their profit margins, that is where the true test is.

Also, not drilling in AK is not helping the gas prices...
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:50 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyt View Post
And here I thought all these Gas companies were breaking profit records due to good marketing.
Remember, there is a difference between profit and profit margin. Profit margin has gone up by a large amount, not necessarily profit.
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Old 03-19-2008, 03:52 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timmyt View Post
Someone I work with is claiming that keeping Iraqi oil in the ground and keeping production low is one of the reasons why gas is so expensive. Drowning the market in Iraqi oil wouldn't make too many exxon execs happy.

If it's the 2nd largest known reserves of oil on the planet, why is production so low?

Is this true?

I can only find one article about it by Greg Palast:

excerpt:

Although its original concession of March 14, 1925, cove- red all of Iraq, the Iraq Petroleum Co., under the owner- ship of BP (23.75%), Shell (23.75%), CFP [of France] (23.75%), Exxon (11.85%), Mobil (11.85%), and [Calouste] Gulbenkian (5.0%), limited its production to fields constituting only one-half of 1 percent of the country's total area. During the Great Depression, the world was awash with oil and greater output from Iraq would simply have driven the price down to even lower levels.

http://www.truthout.org/cgi-bin/artm...w.cgi/61/20480
The basic statement that "Unusually low Iraqi Oil Production is increasing the price of oil" is correct but as Adema pointed out it isn't the ONLY reason. Producing more oil will of course offset the record high prices but as of right now getting any oil out of Iraq is considered a victory for the industry (Unguarded oil pipleines are incredibly easy to attack and as such are often targets of bombings and whatnot).
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:09 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SynTek View Post
The basic statement that "Unusually low Iraqi Oil Production is increasing the price of oil" is correct but as Adema pointed out it isn't the ONLY reason. Producing more oil will of course offset the record high prices but as of right now getting any oil out of Iraq is considered a victory for the industry (Unguarded oil pipleines are incredibly easy to attack and as such are often targets of bombings and whatnot).
OPEC has not raised the cost of petroleum in months, since the last yearly meeting. Look to your very own American speculators and futures traders on Wall street who are driving up the cost of fuel products in the U.S. These vampires are feeding off the tough economic conditions that are affecting their fellow Americans. Their calculations on the volatility of the future petroleum supplies are driving the cost up and at the same time the profits in their pockets. Oil costs x today but muhammad might start something tomorrow or next year that will affect the flow of oil to the West that will make it more costly to buy, therefore I'd better raise todays prices to offset the "future" price increase.
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:51 AM #13
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I remember months ago when the ST: P Neo-cons (I forget the name of the guy, but he was a major douchebag) tried to blame high gas prices on new 'taxes' that the Oil Companies had to pay.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adema3412 View Post
I was looking for an old thread where I posted this, but gas prices are being driven up by three factors:
War Premium, instability to the Middle East=Higher prices
Increase in demand from developing nations, namely India and China
Finally gas prices are being artificially inflated by speculation.

If I find my post I'll link you to it, but otherwise do a quick Google search on those topics.

Production is low in Iraq, because of instability, nobody is going to invest significant resources into a country that could change regimes, which could mean the loss of their investment.
What's your opinion on the oil sands in Alberta? I've heard there's enough hydrocarbons there to fuel the Planet for quite a long time, but isn't being touched because it doesn't have the gigantic returns as pure crude oil does. Although it's nearly limitless, and doesn't have special interests sticking their grubby fingers in it. Sure, it's more expensive to refine and produce, but there wouldn't be nearly the amount of additional costs as there are to pure crude oil. Are we getting robbed for the sake of profitability?
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:26 AM #14
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Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge View Post
I remember months ago when the ST: P Neo-cons (I forget the name of the guy, but he was a major douchebag) tried to blame high gas prices on new 'taxes' that the Oil Companies had to pay.



What's your opinion on the oil sands in Alberta? I've heard there's enough hydrocarbons there to fuel the Planet for quite a long time, but isn't being touched because it doesn't have the gigantic returns as pure crude oil does. Although it's nearly limitless, and doesn't have special interests sticking their grubby fingers in it. Sure, it's more expensive to refine and produce, but there wouldn't be nearly the amount of additional costs as there are to pure crude oil. Are we getting robbed for the sake of profitability?
same reason why you guys dont want to destroy alaksa
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:33 AM #15
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same reason why you guys dont want to destroy alaksa
you guys meaning you pesky liberals!
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:44 AM #16
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Quote:
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What's your opinion on the oil sands in Alberta?
Its insideously hard to extract oil from locked up sand. Also, the sand is very very hard on the extracting machinery. (think of running sand/water mix into the water intake on a jetski)

But again, we need oil, and we arent touching it. I see a efficiency problem here.


Also, i hate the ****ing liberal hippies that protest oil extraction from the ANWR reseviour in alaska, because it "disrupts elk migration". Get a life. Those people need to be beat to death with shovels.
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Old 03-20-2008, 11:51 AM #17
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Originally Posted by SynTek View Post
The basic statement that "Unusually low Iraqi Oil Production is increasing the price of oil" is correct but as Adema pointed out it isn't the ONLY reason. Producing more oil will of course offset the record high prices but as of right now getting any oil out of Iraq is considered a victory for the industry (Unguarded oil pipleines are incredibly easy to attack and as such are often targets of bombings and whatnot).
The only question I have is, after 5 years, why are oil pipelines still not being guarded? If they are often targets of attacks, wouldn't that justify a protection force of sorts?
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:00 PM #18
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Its insideously hard to extract oil from locked up sand. Also, the sand is very very hard on the extracting machinery. (think of running sand/water mix into the water intake on a jetski)

But again, we need oil, and we arent touching it. I see a efficiency problem here.


Also, i hate the ****ing liberal hippies that protest oil extraction from the ANWR reseviour in alaska, because it "disrupts elk migration". Get a life. Those people need to be beat to death with shovels.
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:03 PM #19
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What's your opinion on the oil sands in Alberta?
We have a bunch of it in Wyoming and Utah as well, likely more than they've got in the entire middle east from some accounts. The problem is that it's much more difficult and expensive to make into usable, legit oil than regular oil as it's stuck in shale. Different independent companies are trying to figure out ways to make it less expensive, from what I understand there's a company claiming to be able to do it for around 10$ a barrel even (good investment opportunity?). It's also horribly defacing to the land (even though wyoming and northern Utah are pretty lame anyway). I'm sure if enough people started investing and donating they could get together some PAC's and start lobbying Utah to allow them to use it.
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Old 03-20-2008, 12:13 PM #20
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Gas prices are directly effected by Bush. He has a small dial next to his bed. Every night, he rotates the dial as he pleases.

1.) Ever increasing demand in U.S.
2.) Growing demand in China and India
3.) Investors moving from dwindling real estate and stock market, into oil, creating artificial demand.

Alaska, oil-sands, etc. Meh. The problem isn't that supply is low; the problem is that demand is higher than ever.
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Old 03-20-2008, 01:27 PM #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Furious Ge0rge View Post
Are we getting robbed for the sake of profitability?
Here's the thing, if someone could make money off of it they would.

Special interests may be able to **** over little projects, but if something as large as that was profitable, the oil companies wouldn't be stopping it, they would be fighting over who would have control.
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