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Old 02-19-2008, 12:21 PM #64
Animalm0ther3
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Originally Posted by idesofmarch315 View Post
It still doesn't matter though, whether you spend the rebate or put it in the bank, the money is going back into the economy.
What if you stick it in a safe?

ohhhh
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Old 02-19-2008, 02:42 PM #65
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Originally Posted by graysonp View Post
Untrue. Even if 100% of the money is spent on foreign goods, it benefits our economy.

I'll elabortate later on the rest of the thread. I have an 8 AM class so I don't have time right now.

But basically, everyone needs to forget the debt when it comes to this rebate. It's a separate issue. This thread isn't about the national deficit. It's about spurring the economy back into it's normal growth. It's irrelevant. If you want to argue about how to repay the deficit, start a new thread. The deficit needs to be solved through budgeting and cost cutting, and it's a completely separate problem from this tax rebate. The tax rebate will do exactly what it is intendid for.
Your missing the fine point; If we provided ourselves with products with the "Made in U.S.A." label, than 'larger' percentages of that 'kicker' money will stay in the U.S. and not become the funds/profit for an over seas manufacturer.

However, as I stated before, "this is only a short term fix"!
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Old 02-19-2008, 02:58 PM #66
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It doesn't matter if they cut $150 billion from somewhere. It doesn't matter if they have a $300 billion surplus and they only use 1/2 of it for this rebate. IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT ON THE TAX REBATE'S EFFECTIVENESS. I don't know why you can't understand that. A deficit makes no difference whatsever.
You clearly don't understand whats going on. We already have a $9T+ in national debt with the 2008 budget optimistically planning on several hundred $B more. So to give a tax rebate the govt has to borrow the money. To do this it sells bonds, but to be able to borrow that much money without forcing up interest rates the Fed will have to increase the money supply by buying govt bonds with freshly printed money. Basically creating the money for the tax rebate out of thin air.

I'm typing this while in econ 302 lecture topic "money supply"

Now let me explain why it's not coming out of thin air. Let's say you oweto me as a rebate. Did that money come "from thin air". Of course not. It's my money and you lowered the price I paid for a book (which is essentially the same as raising my income). Does it matter what you owe Bob or whether or not you have the money to pay it back? Of course not.

A tax rebate is no different than a rebate on a TV you bought at Best Buy or a new car you just purchased. It's the same thing. It doesn't matter how much you owe Bob or whether or not you can pay it. The money exists. I earned it, I'm spending it, and you're adjusting the price (or my relative income).[/quote]
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:07 PM #67
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You clearly don't understand whats going on. We already have a $9T+ in national debt with the 2008 budget optimistically planning on several hundred $B more. So to give a tax rebate the govt has to borrow the money. To do this it sells bonds, but to be able to borrow that much money without forcing up interest rates the Fed will have to increase the money supply by buying govt bonds with freshly printed money. Basically creating the money for the tax rebate out of thin air.

I'm typing this while in econ 302 lecture topic "money supply"
I'm typing mine while in Econ 402, so I win, right? I also made a 97 on my last test. I am credible!

The government is cutting tax rates. That's different than creating money. The money supply does not change. The government not being able to budget is a completely separate issue. Much like Bob doesn't know how to pay back his debts, he's not creating money, he's lowering the price of his good for the buyer. Bob's debt is irrelevant to the buyer, even if the buyer was some type of stockholder who would eventually be responsible for the debt. The buyer still gets the increase in income, and still ends up better off. Bob may run himself further into debt, but that's a separate issue. It won't affect inflation, as people keep implying. You've also got the benefits of increased spending and investments from the rebate, which results in faster economic growth.

Last edited by graysonp : 02-19-2008 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:24 PM #68
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It won't affect inflation, as people keep implying. You've also got the benefits of increased spending and investments from the rebate, which results in faster economic growth.
HMm, what economist do you get your information from? Just curious!

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Old 02-19-2008, 03:33 PM #69
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HMm, what economist do you get your information from? Just curious!

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Several. It's one of my majors.
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:43 PM #70
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Several. It's one of my majors.
Thanks for not answering my question, fake republican!
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Old 02-19-2008, 03:58 PM #71
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Thanks for not answering my question, fake republican!
What am I supposed to do? Go through all of the textbooks I no longer own to give you the authors? List all of the professors I've had over the last 3 years? List the books I've read on economics and related topics?

Top of my head, Steven Levitt and Thomas Sowell have published books that I've recently read, I've got a Dr Wilsion in class this semester and he uses a textbook by two guys named Browning and Zupan.
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Old 02-19-2008, 05:12 PM #72
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The government is cutting tax rates. That's different than creating money. The money supply does not change. The government not being able to budget is a completely separate issue.
You just don't know what you're talking about. When government spending is greater than taxes, that creates negative public saving, eg a budget deficit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowding_out_(economics)

So while it is technically not through the actual budget bill that money is printed, when the federal reserve is trying to maintain interest rate X% (and it always is), and the government attempts to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars, demand for money will increase and interest rates could only be held steady as long as the federal reserve adds new money to the money supply.

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Old 02-19-2008, 05:18 PM #73
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What if you stick it in a safe?

ohhhh
now youre just grasping for air...
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Old 02-19-2008, 05:30 PM #74
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You just don't know what you're talking about. When government spending is greater than taxes, that creates negative public saving, eg a budget deficit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crowding_out_(economics)

So while it is technically not through the actual budget bill that money is printed, when the federal reserve is trying to maintain interest rate X% (and it always is), and the government attempts to borrow hundreds of billions of dollars, demand for money will increase and interest rates could only be held steady as long as the federal reserve adds new money to the money supply.
I realize that they CAN change the money supply. What I keep saying is that it's a completely separate problem. It should not be factored into the discussion of a tax rebate because it does not change the effect of the rebate. The government defecit needs to be solved completely separately, and if you want that discussion, start a new thread. We can talk all day about the thousands of ways to change the deficit/surplus, but that's irrelevant to the rebate. In terms of the rebate, it will not affect the money supply or change inflation. The deficit is not relevant when it comes to the rebate and it's effect on our economy.
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Old 02-19-2008, 06:53 PM #75
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Once again the Bush Administration royally ****s the middle class. My family makes over 150,000 a year, so we don't get a dime of rebate.
LOL.... your poor poor family. How will you EVEN survive on a family income like that! Boggles the mind really!
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:00 PM #76
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LOL.... your poor poor family. How will you EVEN survive on a family income like that! Boggles the mind really!
Obviously you don't have a grip on how much stuff costs this day, and that 28% of my family's income is taken to pay for jobless people.
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:05 PM #77
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Obviously you don't have a grip on how much stuff costs this day, and that 28% of my family's income is taken to pay for jobless people.
Something tells me that a little less than 100% of taxes goes to welfare... True, welfare needs some serious reform (by that I mean they should at least look at the people applying), but that's not where all your money is going.
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:06 PM #78
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Something tells me that a little less than 100% of taxes goes to welfare... True, welfare needs some serious reform (by that I mean they should at least look at the people applying), but that's not where all your money is going.
That was a bad example lol, but still, almost a third of my wealth is being taken from me, whereas the higher class and lower class pays much lower premiums.
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:10 PM #79
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Obviously you don't have a grip on how much stuff costs this day, and that 28% of my family's income is taken to pay for jobless people.
About .3 percent of your parent's income goes to welfare.

Welfare is only about 1% of the country's budget. (Note Medicare and Medicaid are not paying for jobless people)
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Old 02-19-2008, 07:33 PM #80
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Obviously you don't have a grip on how much stuff costs this day, and that 28% of my family's income is taken to pay for jobless people.
riiiiight. Go learn about where your tax dollars go... Even if that were the case, which it isn't... so now you only make $100,000 per year... while the people who make 15,000 per year starve. I feel really really bad for you and your hardship.

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That was a bad example lol, but still, almost a third of my wealth is being taken from me, whereas the higher class and lower class pays much lower premiums.
and guess what.... you can own a gun, get medical care if you need it, stand on the front lawn of the white house and tell Bush to kiss off... and all these other freedoms you are taking for granted.... If its too much for you, take your money to Iraq or Iran or Russia...... good luck flapping your mouth there.
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Old 02-19-2008, 10:12 PM #81
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LOL.... your poor poor family. How will you EVEN survive on a family income like that! Boggles the mind really!
lol its squirrel

I wasn't aware the purpose of the rebate was to help families survive. I thought it was to get people spending. Why does it matter who spends it if its going to the same place?
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Old 02-19-2008, 10:14 PM #82
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and guess what.... you can own a gun, get medical care if you need it, stand on the front lawn of the white house and tell Bush to kiss off... and all these other freedoms you are taking for granted.... If its too much for you, take your money to Iraq or Iran or Russia...... good luck flapping your mouth there.
The money they take from us is the very money that is helping those freedoms slip away. There wouldn't be a civil liberties-violating national law enforcement organization if we didn't fund one. This government over the past few years is trying hard to take away precisely what makes us better than Iraq or Iraq or Russia, so don't defend them too much. Also, dissent is the fuel of democracy! You can't have democracy without it.
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Old 02-19-2008, 10:22 PM #83
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lol its squirrel

I wasn't aware the purpose of the rebate was to help families survive. I thought it was to get people spending. Why does it matter who spends it if its going to the same place?
Well it matters on where they spend it, but it's basically politics, the Democrats wanted the rebate to benefit the poor and middle class.
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Old 02-20-2008, 01:40 AM #84
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